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Forums - Politics Discussion - What's Your View On Communism?

SlayerRondo said:
BraveNewWorld said:
First thing's first "capitalism and democracy are not synonymous". That's a line by Immortal Technique from the amazing song -- Leaving the Past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4r3aFMxdU

A democratic society can practice communism. To be honest I think a capitalist system with some socialist concepts mixed in works best -- Canada does this the best, but they're still not perfect. I feel citizens' tax dollars should go towards defense, amenities, social security, free healthcare, and free higher education.

Could you please stop saying free and be honest about what your saying.

You want to force some people to pay for other peoples government benefits, therefore advocating violence.

How on Earth does having taxes pay for healthcare advocate violence? You're right, universal healthcare only fits half the definition of free. It costs something but you don't have to make a payment. I will no longer make the mistake of calling it free.



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""labor" is going to become insanely cheap and abundant due to the proliferation of robots/machines" - Mr. Khan

This is sheer nonsense. See von Mises:

"Our world is different. Labor is more scarce than material factors of production... there are material factors of production which remain unused because the labor required is needed for the satisfaction of more urgent needs. In our world there is no abundance, but a shortage of manpower, and there are unused material factors of production, i.e. land, mineral deposits, and even plants and equipment."



SamuelRSmith said:
So many people seem to misunderstand what capitalism is. Capitalism refers to using capital as a means of increasing production.

Capitalism has nothing to do with charity, banning people from feeding the homeless, punishing people, or freedom.

The word "capitalism" cannot be used interchangeably with "free trade", and capitalism doesn't require free trade, it can exist in fascist societies too ("crony capitalism" - ie, the world that most of us live in today.)

The United States typically employs a capitalistic means of production, but its model is more facism than freedom, and this is true (to varying degrees) for Canada, Europe, Russia, China, Australia, etc.

----

My view on communism is fairly simple, I don't think the labour theory of value holds water. Value is determined by the potential consumer, not by the means of production. Second, central planning of any kind runs into the "knowledge problem" (do we build a factory in location X or Y? Does the factory produce widget A or B? To produce the widget, do we employ means of production R or G? - This is why "attempted communist" countries always run into shortages). Finally, the views on property rights do not correspond to typical human nature, you can't bend humanity to fit your theories, it must be the other way around *

* I always see/hear (including in this thread) people come out with the line "communism would be awesome if not for humans", this bothers me. It implies that the system requires a redesign of man. If we could redesign man, then /any/ system could be perfect, we just redesign man around him. If we make humans "less greedy", then surely the top complaints about what people call "capitalism" would also be eliminated?


Your post summarizes my thoughts as well, especially the bolded 

Rather than the labor theory of value I adhere to the:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

and therefore logically support free-market "capitalism" rather than state capitalism/corporatism/fascism and/or socialism/centrally-planned economies. 



"How on Earth does having taxes pay for healthcare advocate violence?" - BraveNewWorld

How do you propose to collect taxes from others? Send them a letter asking nicely?



I don't like the idea at all. And no religion allowed makes it worse.



    

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the idea of communism is great it was just fucked up in execution by people that didnt even believe in communism (otherwhise they could not be rich while at the same time other people are not)


Same with National Socialism. The idea is good but when you hurt others instead of taking care of your own kind of people the execution is also fucked up and has nothing to do with the original idea..

Democracy is also fucked up as it is right now because in no way are people in control. Its more like DEMO in technology e.g. Techdemo. Its just a demonstration you have no real control at all.
I mean since when can my employees (government) decide that they get a raise in pay? Hell I should decide how muich they get.
They are in control of everything and abuse the system and changed it so much that it has nothing more to do with the original idea of a democracy.

As far as I know there was not a single time where a countries government was not corrupt and abused the system to profit. Governments are a joke (a bad one)



It doesn't really matter if you're not sure if you're a communist or not, just believe what you believe.

That's like a Christian saying "I'm not Catholic or a Lutheran, but I believe in Jesus. Am I a Christian or not?"



"I don't think the labour theory of value holds water." - Samuel R Smith

Yes, it's been discredited for a long time.

"central planning of any kind runs into the "knowledge problem" (do we build a factory in location X or Y? Does the factory produce widget A or B? To produce the widget, do we employ means of production R or G? - This is why "attempted communist" countries always run into shortages)"

Yep, AFAIK that's called the "economic calculation problem".

"Finally, the [communist] views on property rights do not correspond to typical human nature"

Yes, communism cannot be justified, because in order to argue for it one needs to be able to argue in the first place. In arguing, one must employ their own bodies (e.g. mouths or fingers) and property (e.g. keyboards) while excluding others' control over these material things. The very act of arguing presupposes "argumentation ethics" and demonstrates that the communist supports ownership over his own body and property, rather than those bering owned by the community. This is a performative contradiction.



communism is responsible for almost 100 million deaths through executions, famine, deaths resulting from deportations, physical confinement, or through forced labor



HBninjaX said:
communism is responsible for almost 100 million deaths through executions, famine, deaths resulting from deportations, physical confinement, or through forced labor

 

reminds me of those "journalists" blaming video games when reporting on serial killers