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Forums - Politics Discussion - What's Your View On Communism?

First thing's first "capitalism and democracy are not synonymous". That's a line by Immortal Technique from the amazing song -- Leaving the Past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4r3aFMxdU

A democratic society can practice communism. To be honest I think a capitalist system with some socialist concepts mixed in works best -- Canada does this the best, but they're still not perfect. I feel citizens' tax dollars should go towards defense, amenities, social security, free healthcare, and free higher education.



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VGPolyglot said:

Personally, I have switched from being extremely anti-communist to a self-proclaimed communist, but now I don't know what I am. I used to be extremely against communism was due to all of the past and present "communist" countries. I believe that freedom of speech is essential to all human beings, and so the heavy censorship was (and still is) a huge problem for me. I was also against their use of the death penalty, as I believe that execution doesn't justify any crime (capital punishment is one thing that I really wish the U.S. didn't have, but that's off topic). I also hated how there was a lot of poverty while the higher ups lived luxurious lives.

However, there are things that I like about communism. The fact that they managed to dramastically increase literacy rates, increase gender equality, as well as provide free health care and education. I also like the idea of a classless society (which was only partially accomplished). I believe that the more equal society is, the better.

The reason why I am unsure now is that I really don't know what communism is anymore. There are so many variants (Marxism, Leninism, Luxemburgism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc.) that I can't tell what is really communism and what isn't. All I know is that I promote a governemt with freedom of speech and as much equality as possible. I also support direct democracy (the people vote directly on laws) and a world with no countries, just a unified world.

Liberalism took centuries before achieving a mature form. And our world is still not liberal in many aspects nor is the theory/form ceasing to evolve.

Communism/socialism (economical equality/ equality of opportunities) are too young for this world.

The main issue is practical as with a one button vote the world would immediately become community st or at least socialist.

Without that magical button we are basically facing one of the toughest transitions imaginable.

In any case, the ideas should have a long lasting impact on liberalism, and who knows ? Maybe become a full fledged system someday.

For the time being I am happy with how the universal progressive values are being pushed within liberalism.



Ouroboros24 said:
The reason why communism doesn't work is because communism only works on small populations. America, the United States of America, is too grand with opposing ideas and to be honest, we're greedy. Take communism to small villages with people willing to cut their pay and enhance their workrate. Maybe.


Hear this man! The basic problem with socialism is that the governement would have the control over all the posses, and try to distribuite equally. But in a big society, the system have so many holes that is hard to make sure that everyone has the same, more hard yet to  everyone realize when someone has more than others.

Where comunism worked:

Tribes

Small communities in israel

Where doesn't:

Russia

Cuba

China

All big contries that either adopted captalism in economy or have been under constant deficit over the years.



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Breaking into someone's house and stealing their property at gunpoint is wrong.
20 people getting together and doing this to their neighbor is wrong.
1,000,000 people voting to do this to someone is wrong.
Clearly, both communism and democracy, unless they be voluntary, are immoral. A child could understand this.

I live under a democracy where people are put into cages for carrying the wrong kind of plant. These people's bodies are property of the state; they are slaves. Can someone explain how is communism any different?

Also, since we are entertaining immoral things, is it OK for a man desperate for sex to rape a woman if the pleasure he gains exceeds her suffering? Is it OK to put a race in the crematorium if the remaining peoples are happier? I'm just wondering where we are going with this line of thought where we are accepting immoral acts.



Eh, it's no better or worse than capitalism. I personally think we need to tear down society and start over with a new system.




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it will never work. i'm pretty sure most people understand that.

Churchill on capitalism vs. socialism: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”



>I was also against their use of the death penalty, as I believe that execution doesn't justify any crime

Under the estoppel theory of punishment, one who commits a murder is, by their actions, estopped from (logically unable to) objecting to their own destruction.

"The basic insight behind this theory of rights is that a person cannot consistently object
to being punished if he has himself initiated force. He is (dialogically) “estopped” from asserting the impropriety of the force used to punish him, because of his own coercive behavior. " - http://data.mises.org/journals/jls/12_1/12_1_3.pdf



Communism does have some things going for it namely the stateless equal society. But in practically no Communist Party has yet achieved the ultimate goal of communism and I doubt they ever will. Communist parties, in order to get into power, always have had to dismantle the old system that was in place to start the progress towards working to communism, mostly because of the political enemies of the new order.

That's where the problem is really, since rivaling ideologies might threaten the work towards communism they cannot be allowed to exist, so in reality democracy on a political level is pretty much incapable of working with communism. The second problem of course is when do you reach "communism" and what do you do then? It's very unclear on what the end result even is or how it looks like and of course there is nothing stopping certain people for using it for their own gain.

It's not all cloudy days, there are some things to strive for that communism does encourage. That we should be a more equal, free and less ignorant society and you shouldn't have to dedicate your life to working in a leather factory. You can definitely cherry pick the good things and you don't have to feel to call yourself a communist just because you like somethings that Marx or Lenin said but in my opinion it's not wise to subscribe to utopian ideas or ideologies.



The biggest problem with communism is that most people don't like to share, they want to own things for themselves. It can work on small scale with like minded people, worker cooperatives exist in the US as well. Yet corporatism has firmly taken hold of the large scale. As long as there is inequality worker cooperatives can't compete against mega corporations that thrive on cheap labor.



Communism does not = dictatorship, but there is a connection there. As we have seen in several European countries, a large public service can lead to an unworkable society. In my own Canada I worked briefly for the Federal Government. At work I would frequently receive anti-Stephen Harper (the Conservative Prime Minister) propaganda because he was not considered pro-public service. He wasn't necessarily bad for workers, but the other parties are essentially controlled by public service unions such as teachers, nurses, etc. When this happens , the government can expand the public service to the point where it forms a large enough voting block that it can determine the outcome of elections. At this point you have effectively a public service ruling class that decides its own leader, who in turn decides the worker benefits and so on, in an endless cycle of eventual doom.

This is the fundamental problem of socialism, and in turn the problem with communism. It destroys democracy, and so it doesn't work, not in reality and not in theory, either.

There is a further problem with both systems in that forcing equality can reduce motivation. We all need a little competition.

That said, I'm a strong believer in a solid social support network for a "good" and "just" society. Fundamental needs such as food, shelter, health care and education should be provided to all and provided well. You just can't let the public service become the be-all and end-all of your society or you will lose democracy.

In theory the U.S. system should be the best, but it has fallen victim to several flaws, including the 2-party system, the right to bear arms, poor social funding of health and education, a rich ruling class, and the Military-Industrial Complex... but that's another topic, for another time.