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Forums - Gaming - The difference between the failure of the XB1 and the Wii U.

teigaga said:
the Wii U is doing ok now but I don't think you can really compare it to Xbox One.

Wii U has been out for a year and a half and has had most of its biggest names hit the system (Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Mario 3D, Mario 2D, Zelda Remaster and Mario Kart). It needed all of that and a price cut to reach this new 60k/week baseline. I'm sure it will rise even higher once smash bros comes out, but I think the system will approach its peak in the next 12months.

The Xbox on the other hand been out for 8month and hasn't had any of its 1st party big hitters (Halo, gears, Fable), yet is fairly competitive sales wise. Once Halo and 3rd party next gen exclusives (AC Unity, Batman, Witcher 3) come out, the Xbox will be selling alot more. In short its mediocrity is around equal to the Wii U's peak.


I wouldn't classify Pikmin as one of the biggest names on Nintendo. Donkey Kong was a marketing disaster and was released at a very poor time. Super Mario 3D world is a spinoff Mario and not what people say when they mean 3D Mario. When people talk about a 3D mario they mean in the same vein as Super Mario Galaxy. The 2D Mario actually did very well, but it was a launch title and can't have immortal legs.

Mario Kart and its bundle/promotion are pretty much the only reason the Wii U baseline seems to have increased considering DKC did nothing for it.

Wii U still has Mario Galaxy's successor, Mario Party, Metroid, Star Fox, Smash, Zelda, and the amiibo to come. That's far more impressive than what's already out. Not even considering the fact Mario Kart 8 will get a boost from amiibo for the holidays if it's compatible at release.

You have no basis to assume ACU, Batman, or Witcher 3 will have a large effect on the XB1's sales. In fact, multiplat realeases after the launch window have said the opposite.



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Experimental42 said:
teigaga said:
the Wii U is doing ok now but I don't think you can really compare it to Xbox One.

Wii U has been out for a year and a half and has had most of its biggest names hit the system (Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Mario 3D, Mario 2D, Zelda Remaster and Mario Kart). It needed all of that and a price cut to reach this new 60k/week baseline. I'm sure it will rise even higher once smash bros comes out, but I think the system will approach its peak in the next 12months.

The Xbox on the other hand been out for 8month and hasn't had any of its 1st party big hitters (Halo, gears, Fable), yet is fairly competitive sales wise. Once Halo and 3rd party next gen exclusives (AC Unity, Batman, Witcher 3) come out, the Xbox will be selling alot more. In short its mediocrity is around equal to the Wii U's peak.


I wouldn't classify Pikmin as one of the biggest names on Nintendo. Donkey Kong was a marketing disaster and was released at a very poor time. Super Mario 3D world is a spinoff Mario and not what people say when they mean 3D Mario. When people talk about a 3D mario they mean in the same vein as Super Mario Galaxy. The 2D Mario actually did very well, but it was a launch title and can't have immortal legs.

Mario Kart and its bundle/promotion are pretty much the only reason the Wii U baseline seems to have increased considering DKC did nothing for it.

Wii U still has Mario Galaxy's successor, Mario Party, Metroid, Star Fox, Smash, Zelda, and the amiibo to come. That's far more impressive than what's already out. Not even considering the fact Mario Kart 8 will get a boost from amiibo for the holidays if it's compatible at release.

You have no basis to assume ACU, Batman, or Witcher 3 will have a large effect on the XB1's sales. In fact, multiplat realeases after the launch window have said the opposite.

Although many of the releases weren't optimal, they are still big name exclusives (I agree not so much with Pikmin), which contributed to where the system is, the fact that they didn't make a huge impact speaks more on the Wii U more then it does their marketing or appeal. Mario 3D isn't Galaxy but it obviously helped the system a lot last holiday. The key point is look at what the Wii U has needed to simply sell at (or slightly above), Xbox One levels. The Xbox is competing against it on cross gen titles and hardware power alone.

Of the awaiting titles that you've listed Metroid is fantasy at the moment (also not a huge seller-sells at Pikmin levels), Star fox is looking like 2016 (also not a huge seller), amiibo is completely unproven (V different to the skylanders approach), Mario party (are you kidding?), Mario Galaxy sequel may not happen for another 2-3 years, if at all... Essentially the only sure fired hits are Smash Bros and Zelda, neither of which have the pulling power of Mario Kart (IMO) and one isn't coming til the end of 2015.

As for 3rd parties having a large effect on Xbox One's sales, Its niave to assume that they won't. All of the multiplat releases so far are cross gen, so they have very little reason to make a huge dent. Even then watchdogs provided a 25% increase on the $499 Xbox One's sales on the week of its release and it was heavily marketed/tied to the PS4. Once next gen exclusive titles start coming out that can only be played on either the Xbox One or PS4 like Assassins Creed Unity (huge), Batman Arkham Knight (huge), Wicther 3 (Tons of Hype), do you honestly think it won't have a strong effect on a $399 Xbox One's sales?  And that doesn't even take into account the 1st part exclusives.



teigaga said:

Although many of the releases weren't optimal, they are still big name exclusives (I agree not so much with Pikmin), which contributed to where the system is, the fact that they didn't make a huge impact speaks more on the Wii U more then it does their marketing or appeal. Mario 3D isn't Galaxy but it obviously helped the system a lot last holiday. The key point is look at what the Wii U has needed to simply sell at (or slightly above), Xbox One levels. The Xbox is competing against it on cross gen titles and hardware power alone.

Of the awaiting titles that you've listed Metroid is fantasy at the moment (also not a huge seller-sells at Pikmin levels), Star fox is looking like 2016 (also not a huge seller), amiibo is completely unproven (V different to the skylanders approach), Mario party (are you kidding?), Mario Galaxy sequel may not happen for another 2-3 years, if at all... Essentially the only sure fired hits are Smash Bros and Zelda, neither of which have the pulling power of Mario Kart (IMO) and one isn't coming til the end of 2015.

As for 3rd parties having a large effect on Xbox One's sales, Its niave to assume that they won't. All of the multiplat releases so far are cross gen, so they have very little reason to make a huge dent. Even then watchdogs provided a 25% increase on the $499 Xbox One's sales on the week of its release and it was heavily marketed/tied to the PS4. Once next gen exclusive titles start coming out that can only be played on either the Xbox One or PS4 like Assassins Creed Unity (huge), Batman Arkham Knight (huge), Wicther 3 (Tons of Hype), do you honestly think it won't have a strong effect on a $399 Xbox One's sales?  And that doesn't even take into account the 1st part exclusives.

The Wii U had to overcome a year of stigma and being labeled a dead console. People actually thought that Nintendo would fold or drop the Wii U completely. The fact that Nintendo is in the process of rising from the dead is nothing short of miraculous if they can hold on to this momentum until the holidays.

Nintendo said they're planning a console and handheld version of Metroid but gave no time frame or information beyond that, other than saying they liked what Retro did with it. Coincidentally, Retro has been working on a complete mystery title since January.

The amiibo is Nintendo's attempt to persuade third parties to join them in the smart toy market. That alone could be so huge that it makes the Wii U into a worthy successor to the Wii. I won't dwell too much on the major could bes. The amiibo will likely sell like hot cakes this holiday because it's hard not to sell well during the holidays.

Mario Party is an amazing money maker for Nintendo. It takes very little time, effort, and money to make a new Mario Party title compared to say, Mario Galaxy or Zelda, and it's almost a guaranteed million copies sold. Mario Party 10 has arguably the greatest new addition to the series since the series was made, so I don't see it doing terribly.

Bolded: Yes. I don't think that the new current gen only third pary releases will be nearly as big for XB1 as people think. You can sticky this and follow it if you want. I'll eat crow if they do, but I'm expecting them to boost the PS4 by so much that the XB1 sales will not only look pallid, but actually suffer. When the time finally comes, PS3 owners are all going to jump to the PS4, and there's very little reason for most XB360 owners to jump to the XB1 over the PS4. Maybe half of the XB360 owners bought the system for first party titles if we're being generous. The rest were there for third parties, and they'll go to where the third parties are better.



X1 will get full 3rd party support because it's architecture is very similar to PS4, so publishers get a port almost for free. With 3rd party games alone, X1 will soon have multiple times as many high quality games and can easily win in the US and UK. The only problem is that the PS4 is more powerful and there is no reason to buy a X1 other than patriotism.

Without mature and 3rd party games, the Wii-U does not have any chance to compete, especially since support may be dropped by Nintendo in 2016.



Experimental42 said:
teigaga said:
 

Although many of the releases weren't optimal, they are still big name exclusives (I agree not so much with Pikmin), which contributed to where the system is, the fact that they didn't make a huge impact speaks more on the Wii U more then it does their marketing or appeal. Mario 3D isn't Galaxy but it obviously helped the system a lot last holiday. The key point is look at what the Wii U has needed to simply sell at (or slightly above), Xbox One levels. The Xbox is competing against it on cross gen titles and hardware power alone.

Of the awaiting titles that you've listed Metroid is fantasy at the moment (also not a huge seller-sells at Pikmin levels), Star fox is looking like 2016 (also not a huge seller), amiibo is completely unproven (V different to the skylanders approach), Mario party (are you kidding?), Mario Galaxy sequel may not happen for another 2-3 years, if at all... Essentially the only sure fired hits are Smash Bros and Zelda, neither of which have the pulling power of Mario Kart (IMO) and one isn't coming til the end of 2015.

As for 3rd parties having a large effect on Xbox One's sales, Its niave to assume that they won't. All of the multiplat releases so far are cross gen, so they have very little reason to make a huge dent. Even then watchdogs provided a 25% increase on the $499 Xbox One's sales on the week of its release and it was heavily marketed/tied to the PS4. Once next gen exclusive titles start coming out that can only be played on either the Xbox One or PS4 like Assassins Creed Unity (huge), Batman Arkham Knight (huge), Wicther 3 (Tons of Hype), do you honestly think it won't have a strong effect on a $399 Xbox One's sales?  And that doesn't even take into account the 1st part exclusives.

The Wii U had to overcome a year of stigma and being labeled a dead console. People actually thought that Nintendo would fold or drop the Wii U completely. The fact that Nintendo is in the process of rising from the dead is nothing short of miraculous if they can hold on to this momentum until the holidays.

Nintendo said they're planning a console and handheld version of Metroid but gave no time frame or information beyond that, other than saying they liked what Retro did with it. Coincidentally, Retro has been working on a complete mystery title since January.

The amiibo is Nintendo's attempt to persuade third parties to join them in the smart toy market. That alone could be so huge that it makes the Wii U into a worthy successor to the Wii. I won't dwell too much on the major could bes. The amiibo will likely sell like hot cakes this holiday because it's hard not to sell well during the holidays.

Mario Party is an amazing money maker for Nintendo. It takes very little time, effort, and money to make a new Mario Party title compared to say, Mario Galaxy or Zelda, and it's almost a guaranteed million copies sold. Mario Party 10 has arguably the greatest new addition to the series since the series was made, so I don't see it doing terribly.

Bolded: Yes. I don't think that the new current gen only third pary releases will be nearly as big for XB1 as people think. You can sticky this and follow it if you want. I'll eat crow if they do, but I'm expecting them to boost the PS4 by so much that the XB1 sales will not only look pallid, but actually suffer. When the time finally comes, PS3 owners are all going to jump to the PS4, and there's very little reason for most XB360 owners to jump to the XB1 over the PS4. Maybe half of the XB360 owners bought the system for first party titles if we're being generous. The rest were there for third parties, and they'll go to where the third parties are better.

Oh I'm sure the PS4 will be doing 2:1 when it comes to those releases but i still expect a healthy boost for the Xbox. Also  Halo + Gears >>> Any IP sony has. Specifically because they online/community and the power in them. I really think people are making the mistake in thinking that these early adopters are representive of the masses that will swarm to the next gen systems once they've got big hitters exclusive. I don't think the casual COD fan has the bias against microsoft that is portrayed by the informed gamers on here who bring up suff like resolution, DRM etc. 



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well thats a stupid article. what a waste of time.



Both consoles are obviously underperforming. I'd say the WiiU is a much bigger failure, considering it's a sequel to the hugely popular and profitable Wii.



And i guess you have a ps4 eh!



Experimental42 said:

 

Power isn't needed for innovation, and innovation clearly trumps power when done right.


This isn't anywhere close to correct. Power doesn't lead to direct innovation, but a lot of new things demand computational power to be done. Open world games, proceduraly generated enviroments, new sound tech, new animation, new physics. This changes the way games are played.

PS2 allowed GTA San Andreas to bring a massive living world that the PS1 couldn't push. PS3 power allowed God Of War 3 to redefine scale in gaming because it had the power to do it (Santa Monica had to scrap their plans for a huge Kronos in GoW 2 because of lack of power). PS4 and X1 will start bringing innovation as physics and destructible enviroments, more player in online games and a more social sharing oriented gaming experience.



teigaga said:

Oh I'm sure the PS4 will be doing 2:1 when it comes to those releases but i still expect a healthy boost for the Xbox. Also  Halo + Gears >>> Any IP sony has. Specifically because they online/community and the power in them. I really think people are making the mistake in thinking that these early adopters are representive of the masses that will swarm to the next gen systems once they've got big hitters exclusive. I don't think the casual COD fan has the bias against microsoft that is portrayed by the informed gamers on here who bring up suff like resolution, DRM etc. 


Didn't the last Gears game fall off a cliff as far as sales go? Uncharted and Gran turismo are pretty big franchises, arguably bigger than Halo and Gears. Bonus, Sony has more, and more varied, first party franchises. Gears and Halo appeal to the same type of crowd, which isn't a terribly great thing.

CoD casuals may not understand things like resolution, DRM, and frame rates, but they do understand "The PS4 has better graphics and costs the same. It even gets some cool exclusive content for Destiny broseph."

Everyone keeps saying that they expect the XB1's multiplats to be a selling point. Here's a little mental, or real world if you want, experiment you can try:

Make two batches of doughnuts. Make sure Batch B looks a tiny bit deformed or smaller. Set up a sidewalk stand and try to sell them. Batch A looks better and you can drizzle a very small amount of chocolate, caramel, or sprinkles on it. Batch B is slightly less appealing and doesn't get the toppings. Sell both batches at the exact same price, and refuse to add any toppings to doughnuts from Batch B no matter what. See how many Batch B doughnuts sell before Batch A runs out.