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Forums - Gaming - If a "next gen" game is also on ps3/x360 (ala Destiny) Is it really Next Gen?

 

Is last gen holding current gen/next gen back in multiplat games?

Yes 98 60.49%
 
No 63 38.89%
 
Total:161
episteme on 19 July 2014
Zekkyou said:

It is a beta :p Though I've heard of no major performance issues. I know DF reported the game has a frame pacing issue because of an even spread (generally 29's or 31's), but that's a technical issue rather than a resource one. It was in the alpha too, so it's disappointing to see they haven't fixed it yet, but hopefully by launch they've worked out what's causing it. It really fucks with the input delay.

I agree they couldn't hit 60fps (at least not right now), but they could certainly achieve more than 30fps. Or at the very least if they wanted to lock it at 30, the game itself should look better (that's not to say it doesn't look great, just could have done more). Unfortunately it's not worth the effort when you're designing the game to scale between gens.

The game itself is somewhat proof of the issue. A several year development cycle, massive team, massive budget and releasing almost a year after the PS4/X1's launch, yet it's visually outclassed by some 8th gen exclusive launch titles :/

On the bright side, things have improved a lot. Games like Destiny and AW have a much stronger focus on the next gen that previous titles did. The gen difference still ends up being demonstrated by IQ/LOD or frame rates, but it's a nice improvement.

[inset "the gap is widening" joke here]

Yes, it could look better if there weren't last-gen versions. It's not the most technically impressive game, but it looks nice on current-gen due to it's art style and the clean and crisp image.

I was talking about the framerate and 30FPS isn't only a minor issue for a shooter in my opinion.

Well, I'll get the PC version (as long as I get it at all), so no framerate issues for me ;)

 

Yeah, the gap is widening. The launch cross-gen ports were pretty rushed they were more focussed on the last-gen versions (well, they were in development for last-gen for years). The current-gen versions are more important now and the last-gen ports seem to get worse and worse.



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Zekkyou on 19 July 2014
160rmf said:
Zekkyou said:

I never said it wasn't :p I was pointing out the huge visual jumps we've already been seeing in the next gen. Hence why using current cross gen titles as a reference for the capabilities of the 8th gen systems doesn't make much sense.

AW still isn't exactly the best looking game ever, but next gen platforms being the lead has done wonders for it. It will still be relatively close to the 7th gen, but a bigger jump than we saw with Ghosts.

Then you have ACU which looks downright amazing. A tad unstable at present (understandably, given how many character models they're trying to use simultaneously), but still amazing.

If COD AW isn't one of the best looking games, neither is ACU, EA ufc or any other "next gen" exclusive title. You just said AW is big jump over ghosts and yet it still available for last gen consoles. For me, last gen holding back is just a lame excuse to the developers make less work and force people to purchase the "next gen" hw. The real problem is that this generation isn't capable enough to improve during its lifetime like the  previous generations

Games don't get a free graphics upgrade coupon when they concentrate on next gen systems or go next gen only, it simply increases the possibilities available to them. There will always be games like Knack or UFC that fail to capitalize on that potential.

Cross gen 7th > 8th:

AC4 and Ghosts. Both 7th gen games powered by 7th gen tech. The only difference between the versions is some performance changes and LOD distribution. PC is often held back in the same way.

Cross gen 8th > 7th:

AW and Destiny. These are still cross gen, but made with the next gen first in mind. They are still limited in that the game has to linearly scale back to the 7th gen, but they can utilized stuff like 8th gen effects. Anything that can be removed without changing the game itself.

Can a game be on the 7th gen but still use next gen tech in the 8th gen version? Sure it can, but you end up with a heavily gimped 7th gen version. It's rarely worth the effort, thus rarely done. So in that scene you are partly right, it's down to laziness. However, there are often good reasons for said "laziness".

8th gen only:

Finally you have games like ACU, which are making the most of the new tech available to them. Since they don't need to worry about scaling the game back, they can utilize stuff like their mass concurrent NPC simulations. That tech wouldn't be possible on the PS3/360, it would have to be entirely removed and replaced with a standard scaling LOD NPC spread. That's what this gen is about. The 7th gen introduced the potential for HD, the 8th is improving on that and giving us a chance to create truly living game worlds.

You're free to believe whatever tickles your fancy, but personally, i look at the jump between AC4 on the PS3/360 and ACU on the PS4/X1 and i can't help but be impressed ^^ You're opinion is perfectly justified, but i can't say i agree with it.



Zekkyou on 19 July 2014
episteme said:

Yes, it could look better if there weren't last-gen versions. It's not the most technically impressive game, but it looks nice on current-gen due to it's art style and the clean and crisp image.

I was talking about the framerate and 30FPS isn't only a minor issue for a shooter in my opinion.

Well, I'll get the PC version (as long as I get it at all), so no framerate issues for me ;)

 

Yeah, the gap is widening. The launch cross-gen ports were pretty rushed they were more focussed on the last-gen versions (well, they were in development for last-gen for years). The current-gen versions are more important now and the last-gen ports seem to get worse and worse.

I do agree about the frame rate thing. I can understand making the game to easily scale between the gens, but at least lettings us take advantage of the hardware through a unlocked frame rate opinion would be nice (especially given the game).

Ah well, PC for me too it seems



Angelv577 on 19 July 2014

This game has been in development for a couple of years and they knew that the transition to current gen will take time. It's the first game of the series so it should be expected.



Porcupine_I on 19 July 2014
Intrinsic said:
Roma said:

I'm with you on that I don't get why people would spend on new consoles when they can play the same games on older consoles. I guess higher resolution makes games better for some people :P

I was just joking with you since you wanted to get the PS4 version and skip the PS4 :P

I bought my first ps3 in november 2006. second one in december 2010. Basically had a PS3 for 7yrs. i would have got a PS4 even if it only had tetris on it just cause i was ready to move onto the new console (fortunately it had a lot more than tetris).

There is this habit I picked up when i was a kid and still kinda do it for kicks till this day. From the day I picked up the PS3 (started this from the PS1), I literally put $10 in a sealed shoe-box with a slit on top and labelled 'NEXT GEN'. By the time i got my PS4, I had exactly $710 in that box. Already have another box titled NEXT GEN right now. This is just one such story of people that would spend on new consoles. Oh, I am a crazy MGS fanatic. I would probably hang myself if i felt i wasn't playing the best version of any MGS game.

Besides, some people just like geting things cause they are new.

You either left out the part where you put more money inside the box over time, or it is a money multiplying miracle!

 

..please tell me it is the latter



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Intrinsic on 19 July 2014
Porcupine_I said:
Intrinsic said:
Roma said:

I'm with you on that I don't get why people would spend on new consoles when they can play the same games on older consoles. I guess higher resolution makes games better for some people :P

I was just joking with you since you wanted to get the PS4 version and skip the PS4 :P

I bought my first ps3 in november 2006. second one in december 2010. Basically had a PS3 for 7yrs. i would have got a PS4 even if it only had tetris on it just cause i was ready to move onto the new console (fortunately it had a lot more than tetris).

There is this habit I picked up when i was a kid and still kinda do it for kicks till this day. From the day I picked up the PS3 (started this from the PS1), I literally put $10 in a sealed shoe-box with a slit on top and labelled 'NEXT GEN'. By the time i got my PS4, I had exactly $710 in that box. Already have another box titled NEXT GEN right now. This is just one such story of people that would spend on new consoles. Oh, I am a crazy MGS fanatic. I would probably hang myself if i felt i wasn't playing the best version of any MGS game.

Besides, some people just like geting things cause they are new.

You either left out the part where you put more money inside the box over time, or it is a money multiplying miracle!

 

..please tell me it is the latter

lmao..... only if it was the latter. I actually meant i put $10 in the box every month.



torok on 21 July 2014

Well, it's one of the transition titles. I wouldn't say that even titles that are exclusive for PS4 and X1 like InFamous and Forza are really "next gen", but it is to early to see this kind of game. X360 first next-gen title was Gears of War, PS3 first next-gen title was Metal Gear Solid 4. And the first game of the last gen to really impress me was God of War 3 (actually, I still think it is the most impressive game of all time).

Destiny beta looks interesting. Fluid controls, good maps, nice vehicles and I like their RPG-style progression applied to a FPS. Gameplay is top-notch and matchmaking is quick. The class system is different and is more similar to RPG classes than FPS ones, so it's a pretty fresh approach to the genre. However, I have some concerns about their 6 v 6 match style and I think it is more a fps than a MMO. The beta suffers with stuttering too, and I think it shouldn't be like that so close to launch. I'm not preordering it only because of the stuttering, I will wait for the final version and if it's fixed I'm buying it day 1.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

160rmf on 21 July 2014
Zekkyou said:
160rmf said:

The real problem is that this generation isn't capable enough to improve during its lifetime like the  previous generations

 

You're free to believe whatever tickles your fancy, but personally, i look at the jump between AC4 on the PS3/360 and ACU on the PS4/X1 and i can't help but be impressed ^^ You're opinion is perfectly justified, but i can't say i agree with it.


After seeing this post http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6504811 , i couldn't imagine you don't being impressed. Anyway, good for you that you are enjoying, when i look at the incredible "huge" difference between last gen and "next gen", all I can think is: No thanks, call me when next gen is over



 

 

We reap what we sow

prinz_valium on 21 July 2014

not for destiny, becaus of no next gen engine and no down port for last gen version

forza horizon 2 eg is next gen



Zekkyou on 21 July 2014
160rmf said:
Zekkyou said:

You're free to believe whatever tickles your fancy, but personally, i look at the jump between AC4 on the PS3/360 and ACU on the PS4/X1 and i can't help but be impressed ^^ You're opinion is perfectly justified, but i can't say i agree with it.


After seeing this post http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6504811 , i couldn't imagine you don't being impressed. Anyway, good for you that you are enjoying, when i look at the incredible "huge" difference between last gen and "next gen", all I can think is: No thanks, call me when next gen is over

So you're basing this post on a comment i made in the context of a remaster? As a reference for my opinion of the generation jump? I lol'd.