By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - PlayStation created the Industry, Xbox changed the playing field

JWeinCom said:

Hmmmmm... so anything outside the ill defined "mainstream fanbase" is deemed outside of the gaming industry, and anything that is outside of your ill defined argument is ignored.  Consistent if nothing else.  *Shrug* 

Traditional Home Console market to be specific, but it would have been obvious that the omitted markets where irrelevant, had you more open expectations.

Surely, I could have specified the title as "PlayStation contributed to state of the traditional home console market in so far as the importance of third parties and broaded demographics are concerned, Xbox further solidified the importance of 3rd party developers and publishers as well as improved upon and made more widespread the online network capabilities and media functions of consoles popularized in the current generation, thus this is likely why the current generation of  consoles are performing thus far" but "PlayStation created the Industry, Xbox changed the playing field" is a lot more succint and catchy.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Around the Network
Ronster316 said:
Jesus christ............. sony fans will be trying to tell the world that sony invented the god damn wheel at this rate.

sony aint responsible for jack sh*t.

As mentioned in some previous posts, they were in the right place at the right time, they got lucky. (and had the financial muscle to bully the competition)

If you really want to make that argument, I could explain how that applies to every corporation involved in the gaming industry, and frankly the entire history of humankind.

Read why don't you, this is a defense of Nintendo, not a crediting of Sony.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

You are assuming that I'm talking about the industry as a whole rather than the traditional home console market. This is just an argument of semantics on the most basic of levels.

Sure they are directly competing in the industry, not for the same markets however. And their are distinct markets, each consisting of smaller submarkets. The Wii, for the most part, did not compete for the same market that the PS360 addressed. This was the only gen they had the lead against PlayStation as a home console.


I'm not assuming that's what you're talking about.  I'm saying that the markets are related.  For instance, there was huge overlap between the DS and Wii market that helped each grow and succeed.  Furthermore, explaining why strategies that are working on the 3DS are not working on the Wii U is also a part of the puzzle.  I understand your argument is focusing on the home console market, but the industry is more complicated than that. 

I also understand that you're saying that the Wii appealed to a different market, but first off, I think you're severely underestimating the overlap between those markets.  For instance, consider that Guitar Hero was incredibly popular on the PS2, but the Wii wound up being the most popular next gen console for Guitar Hero 3 and beyond.  Consider that Eye Toy sold 4.2 million units. DDR is another great example.   There is certainly an overlap.  At the same time, people are discounting any success Wii had in the hardcore sector. Smash, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Goldeneye, Resident Evil 4, Xenoblade, and Mario Kart didn't just sell to soccer moms. 

Secondly, if you're not counting the market the Wii did appeal to, what exactly are you trying to prove?  That Sony consoles sell better among Sony fans than Nintendo consoles?  I mean, I could have told you that.

 

Quote Tree Shortened - Conegamer



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
JWeinCom said:

Hmmmmm... so anything outside the ill defined "mainstream fanbase" is deemed outside of the gaming industry, and anything that is outside of your ill defined argument is ignored.  Consistent if nothing else.  *Shrug* 

Traditional Home Console market to be specific, but it would have been obvious that the omitted markets where irrelevant, had you more open expectations.

Surely, I could have specified the title as "PlayStation contributed to state of the traditional home console market in so far as the importance of third parties and broaded demographics are concerned, Xbox further solidified the importance of 3rd party developers and publishers as well as improved upon and made more widespread the online network capabilities and media functions of consoles popularized in the current generation, thus this is likely why the current generation of  consoles are performing thus far" but "PlayStation created the Industry, Xbox changed the playing field" is a lot more succint and catchy.

Call it succint and catchy if you want, but it doesn't define your argument clearly.  If your main point was supposed to be about Nintendo not being able to compete, don't you think that at the very least, Nintendo should be in the title somewhere?  Like I said, your title sets the expectation for readers, so that's what they're responding to.  Playstation created the industry is your argument, whether that's what you intended or not. 



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Traditional Home Console market to be specific, but it would have been obvious that the omitted markets where irrelevant, had you more open expectations.

Surely, I could have specified the title as "PlayStation contributed to state of the traditional home console market in so far as the importance of third parties and broaded demographics are concerned, Xbox further solidified the importance of 3rd party developers and publishers as well as improved upon and made more widespread the online network capabilities and media functions of consoles popularized in the current generation, thus this is likely why the current generation of  consoles are performing thus far" but "PlayStation created the Industry, Xbox changed the playing field" is a lot more succint and catchy.


Try sensationalist and inaccurate.



Around the Network
gatito said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Traditional Home Console market to be specific, but it would have been obvious that the omitted markets where irrelevant, had you more open expectations.

Surely, I could have specified the title as "PlayStation contributed to state of the traditional home console market in so far as the importance of third parties and broaded demographics are concerned, Xbox further solidified the importance of 3rd party developers and publishers as well as improved upon and made more widespread the online network capabilities and media functions of consoles popularized in the current generation, thus this is likely why the current generation of  consoles are performing thus far" but "PlayStation created the Industry, Xbox changed the playing field" is a lot more succint and catchy.


Try sensationalist and inaccurate.

Well, that too.



@ Dr Henry.

I read what you wrote in you're opening post, i read it thoroughly, and in it's current state.......... my take? it's BS.

A tonne of sony fans have come in here to comment, and some of the lies been spewed are frankly annoying



JWeinCom said:

I'm not assuming that's what you're talking about.  I'm saying that the markets are related.  For instance, there was huge overlap between the DS and Wii market that helped each grow and succeed.  Furthermore, explaining why strategies that are working on the 3DS are not working on the Wii U is also a part of the puzzle.  I understand your argument is focusing on the home console market, but the industry is more complicated than that. 

I also understand that you're saying that the Wii appealed to a different market, but first off, I think you're severely underestimating the overlap between those markets.  For instance, consider that Guitar Hero was incredibly popular on the PS2, but the Wii wound up being the most popular next gen console for Guitar Hero 3 and beyond.  Consider that Eye Toy sold 4.2 million units. DDR is another great example.   There is certainly an overlap.  At the same time, people are discounting any success Wii had in the hardcore sector. Smash, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Goldeneye, Resident Evil 4, Xenoblade, and Mario Kart didn't just sell to soccer moms. 

Secondly, if you're not counting the market the Wii did appeal to, what exactly are you trying to prove?  That Sony consoles sell better among Sony fans than Nintendo consoles?  I mean, I could have told you that.

The Wii is actually evidence that hardware isn't as significant as marketshare is when concerning multiplat support. The PS2 is further support of this claim.

And I am not saying discounting that the Wii sold to gamers as well as non gamers. In fact, I'm saying we can't divorce the too we simply don't have that information.

Instead, I use the 5th (30 mill) and 6th (20 mill) generations and compare that against the Wii (100 mill). That's at the very least 50 million non-gamers as rough low estimate.

At least a 300% difference in overall sales, just by changing the primary addressed market.

Thus, its simply as this Post-PlayStation, when Nintendo adresses a non-traditional market, traditional defined as people who have gaming as a hobby on home consoles, they succeed. This is because Nintendo is no longer compatible with the new standard which favors PlayStation and Xbox. I consider Handhelds as non standard because Nintendo succeeds in it, but thus far it hasn't helped the home consoles. It could have helped the Wii, but we have no solid information on its effects, similar how we don't know what the GBA did.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

History Lesson Time in brief:

Nintendo dominated the 3rd and 4th Generations.

In order to develop a CD addon for the SNES, Nintendo went to Sony. The SNES-CD was developed, a standalone console, backwards compatible with SNES and able to play CD-ROM games. Due to licensing disagreements, Nintendo decided to work with Phillips, and Sony having already developed the console, called the Play Station, redubbed it the PlayStation and formed PlayStation.

With the PS1 and PS2, PlayStation dominated the industry, bringing format change, demographical change, and backwards compatibility. Gaming was made to appeal to older audiences from being children's toys. The importance of 3rd parties was magnified here, because Sony, unlike Nintendo, wasn't a Game Development company.

MS also entered with the XB and introduced online gaming which became a major component of the subsequent generation.

With the PS3, Sony's grip loosened, and Nintendo and MS consoles flourished, making cross platform and 3rd parties even more important then before. Due to the Wii's popularity among the non-gaming audiences it introduces gaming to the non-gamer audiences making it more mainstream then ever. It also popularized alternative methods of control. Online gaming became a standard.

With the current generation, the effect of the popularity of the mobile industry and gaming in that field, most of the mainstream non-gaming appeal migrated there causing an overall reduction in the expected marketsize. Digital Distribution, a phenomenon that became important at the end of the previous generation, is now a major component of this generation. The importance of 3rd parties is paramount as well. This bodes negatively for the WIi U, Nintendo's newest console, because of its declining 3rd party support. Due to the XB1 orginal price and policies, it also fell behind after launch to Sony's PS4, which for the most part has done fine so far.

 

Now then, with this I have come to the conclusion that the industry we have today was created by PlayStation with the PS1. In this 5th generation, everything changed, from the market demographic to the importance of 3rd parties. When Xbox entered the arena, its strategy was that of a US focused version of what PS was doing, capitalizing on the market demographic and the 3rd party influence that it had, as well as introducing Online Gaming. With the weakening of the PS brand from the PS3, this allowed Xbox to go from 20mill to 80 million. Xbox stumbled this gen when it tried to go for a market that had moved on similar to part of Nintendo's problems as a whole. Xbox can flourish in the PS industry, but its approach at aiming at the mainstream was ineffective. As for Nintendo, this problem has existed since the PS1, Nintendo which was used to prioritizing its own IPs and treating 3rd parties as subordinate developers heavily backfired, in a simlar but more exacerbated case of what occured to the PS3. Since 5th gen, Nintendo has struggled to compete in the industry with one exception, that of the Wii, because the market is fundamentally incompatible with them. Only when they address a different market entirely, such as the casual audience or handhelds, then they have succeded. Unfortunately for Nintendo, Mobile is encroching on them from both fronts.

Great read, i agree with pretty much everything said.



Lawlight said:
MohammadBadir said:

Wouldn't be more fitting to say Nintendo's the one who started it, and Playstation's the one who changed it, and Xbox changed it some more?

or Atari created, etc.


No, because the industry as we know it was created with the introduction of the PS. As in games being a form of entertainment rather than a toy for kids.

That was not Sony's doing. Games like Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Doom, etc were already starting to appear on SNES/Genisis/PC. Sony was just there at the right place and the right time and cannibalized on Sega and Nintendo's mistakes.