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Forums - Sports Discussion - major league soccer slowly on the rise in North America

Ka-pi96 said:
Good for them I suppose.
Although after looking at the stats I'm quite disappointed. The MLS is close to overtaking the NHL in number of fans


Uh, no. As much as I love MLS we are not to NHL standard (especially in Canada).  MLS has 34 fixtures compared to NHL 82 in a season so not fair to compare numbers.   The point is MLS can find space as part of the 4 (would become 5) major team sport leagues in the US/Canada.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Burek said:

US national team achieved its greatest successes when led by foreign experts like Serbian Bora Milutinovic, who was at the time in Top 5 of world's coaches.

Umm, who?

And what about the likes of Cruyff, van Gaal, Dalglish, Ferguson, Capello etc?

He is famous for taking 5 different countries (most of them outsiders) to 5 World Cups in a row, and going to at least to 2nd round with all of them except China. Mexico, Costa Rica, USA, Nigeria and China. 



I believe sooner or later soccer will become almost as popular in the US than it is in the rest of the world.

It seems like the most popular sports in the US are those where their national team is clearly among the world's best: Handegg, Baseball, Basketball... The US is top in these sports, if only because they're not very popular in the rest of the world.

The US national soccer team on the other hand was never very successful at world cups etc., from 1950-1990 they didn't even qualify. I believe that once they become more successful at a world cup, interest in soccer will significantly grow in the US. And I think it won't take long until that happens, because during the last decades their national soccer team seems to have improved constantly and impressively. Whenever I saw them play in recent years, it was always quite a pleasure to watch.



DirtyP2002 said:
vivster said:
I guess if the US would put their mind to it they could be one of the leading football nations.


I heard this before...

Is there any team sports that America is always in the top 5 of the world that is actually played by Europeans / Asians?
Basketball, handegg, Baseball are pretty much US only.

Baseball is huge in Asia and in Central America. Basketball is also popular throughout the world and a lot of US players go to Europe and Asia if they couldn't make the NBA.

People will continue to try and grow the sport because the US has the $$ to support it.



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amp316 said:

Been there and done that.  We had the World Cup in the USA as you mentioned and all it did was get many Americans to watch part of a match and find out that they don't like it all over again.  Almost every soccer fan that I know either a first or second generation American.  This sounds like a sarcastic response, but actually isn't.

That being said, I am glad to see that the MLS is doing well enough to stay around and actually expand unlike the several other leagues that have folded in the past.

That's almost exactly what happened and continues to happen with every World Cup, though to a lesser degree.  If you watch sports, it's a very much advertised event.  People get excited for World Cups, they get excited for Team USA, they watch the first match, and then they ... stop watching.

The reality is, a long, boring match can be dreadfully long and boring, which is exactly what a lot of early World Cup matches are.  People will start out interested, ready to be converted, but watching the ball get kicked back and forth at midfield for an hour will win no one over.  

The Simpsons Explain Soccer

THAT is what happens, especially when you have teams in the first rounds aiming for a "0-0 tie" because they have no real hope of out-scoring the powerhouse teams.



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Augen said:
theprof00 said:
Not sure if it's been said yet, but the real reason why nobody likes soccer is because theyre not told to like soccer.


Except, of course, the millions of Americans and Canadians who do like soccer.  The biggest issue the sport has, as this thread shows, is perception.  

People think nobody likes soccer because they are told nobody likes soccer.  

Ignore the thousands of people every week who attend and watch league and international matches.  Ignore the fact that television contracts for foriegn and domestic leagues have exploded in past decade. Ignore that the World Cup is now one of the most viewed events in the country. 17 million people watched the US play England in 2010, 19 million watched the US play Ghana. The average viewer was in their 30s.

Massives companies like Nike, Adidas and Pepsi do not dump millions into a sport no one likes.  We are simply a massive country with enough space for multiple sports.  I think in the next two or three World Cups we will see the break through where the general public realize the tremendous progress made since 1994.

saying that nobody likes soccer is a bit extreme. Sure there's lots of people who dislike soccer for whatever reason, but in reality, there's just apathy to the sport, and it's because advertising isn't intrinsically linked to the sport.

Yes it's growing in popularity. Yes people watch it. Yes, there is demand. But without advertisers in on it, there's no push.

Just think of it like a video game without advertising. A good game will still sell well, but if there aren't any advertisers pushing it, it will never reach its potential. When you're invested in a medium, you do what you can to maximize your impact. Like coors, you'll have an ad on monday night football, produce beer coozies, and try to get your name on anything in the game. You invest in making a magazine for each game so that you can control your own advertising at a cheaper price with more impact. You fund the groundskeepers so you can have you brand cut into the grass. You might fund new chairs for a stadium that have your logo on them. Or you might buy jerseys, or sports-cards, or game-advertising rights, and what have you.

All of these things improve the quality level of the fan experience.

Now, with baseball, you have roughly an hour+ of commercials. Let's say that breaks down to 100-50 commercials. That makes every commercial very cheap, and you can have several. Then look at soccer, where there are like, only 4-5 commercial breaks (they sometimes go to commercial during play).  That makes commercials very expensive. More expensive means you have significantly less diverse companies. Less companies means less people involved, less people means fewer ideas. It's a snowball effect. With baseball so heavily branded, you can't find something that doesn't have a hand in it or an ad during its breaks. Calendars, watches, pens, bike helmets, motorcycles. You will see so much variation during a baseball game, it's uncanny.

Absolutely, we are going to see more growth in soccer...but I promise you it will come through advertising. They just need to figure out how to do it without interrupting the game.



pokoko said:

That's almost exactly what happened and continues to happen with every World Cup, though to a lesser degree.  If you watch sports, it's a very much advertised event.  People get excited for World Cups, they get excited for Team USA, they watch the first match, and then they ... stop watching.

The reality is, a long, boring match can be dreadfully long and boring, which is exactly what a lot of early World Cup matches are.  People will start out interested, ready to be converted, but watching the ball get kicked back and forth at midfield for an hour will win no one over.  

The Simpsons Explain Soccer

THAT is what happens, especially when you have teams in the first rounds aiming for a "0-0 tie" because they have no real hope of out-scoring the powerhouse teams.


Except I have posted that the US v. Ghana match in round of 16 got higher ratings than the US England match in the group stage.  Ratings tend to be affected by day and time and what network they are on more than anything.  The 2010 World Cup saw a significant increase over 2006 which saw a significant increase over 2002.

"24.3 million total American viewers in 2010 (vs. 19 million in 2006), making it the most viewed soccer game in U.S. history according to Neilsen ratings."

I also have shown clear data that the domestic league has grown in scale and interest and that people do not watch and then give up, many stay and numbers grow.  Sorry if I am getting defensive, but this thread is a cycle of "state outdated perception" "have perception refuted by evidence" "ignore evidence and restate perception" is wearing on me.



Might eventually surpass baseball and a few other sports. Very few people give a damn about baseball anymore it seems. The game is just too slow. I used to like it but now I can only watch perhaps highlights (like Nascar or golf). I bet in 20 years soccer will be more popular than baseball in USA. I don't mind this at all considering I enjoyed playing soccer the most out of all sports when I was young.  Granted I don't enjoy watching soccer that much.  It is like golf to me.  The sports are fun to play but boring to watch.  English Premier League is kind of fun to watch but I don't think I could watch MLS.  I've been to one MLS game way back when it first came out (Columbus Crew game) and it was alright from what I remember.  I just don't give a damn about professional sports anymore.



theprof00 said:

saying that nobody likes soccer is a bit extreme. Sure there's lots of people who dislike soccer for whatever reason, but in reality, there's just apathy to the sport, and it's because advertising isn't intrinsically linked to the sport.

Yes it's growing in popularity. Yes people watch it. Yes, there is demand. But without advertisers in on it, there's no push.

Just think of it like a video game without advertising. A good game will still sell well, but if there aren't any advertisers pushing it, it will never reach its potential. When you're invested in a medium, you do what you can to maximize your impact. Like coors, you'll have an ad on monday night football, produce beer coozies, and try to get your name on anything in the game. You invest in making a magazine for each game so that you can control your own advertising at a cheaper price with more impact. You fund the groundskeepers so you can have you brand cut into the grass. You might fund new chairs for a stadium that have your logo on them. Or you might buy jerseys, or sports-cards, or game-advertising rights, and what have you.

All of these things improve the quality level of the fan experience.

Now, with baseball, you have roughly an hour+ of commercials. Let's say that breaks down to 100-50 commercials. That makes every commercial very cheap, and you can have several. Then look at soccer, where there are like, only 4-5 commercial breaks (they sometimes go to commercial during play).  That makes commercials very expensive. More expensive means you have significantly less diverse companies. Less companies means less people involved, less people means fewer ideas. It's a snowball effect. With baseball so heavily branded, you can't find something that doesn't have a hand in it or an ad during its breaks. Calendars, watches, pens, bike helmets, motorcycles. You will see so much variation during a baseball game, it's uncanny.

Absolutely, we are going to see more growth in soccer...but I promise you it will come through advertising. They just need to figure out how to do it without interrupting the game.

Television is the last great fontier and as I pointed out they just landed their first massive television deal for 2015 to 2022, 90 million a year or five times what they were getting.

"Major League Soccer's (MLS) deal is not only a sign of great growth for the soccer league after signing a new eight-year deal with ESPN, Fox Sports and Univision worth a combined $720 million dollars, but also a huge boon increasing their broadcast rights by five-times from their previous agreement."




Augen said:
theprof00 said:

saying that nobody likes soccer is a bit extreme. Sure there's lots of people who dislike soccer for whatever reason, but in reality, there's just apathy to the sport, and it's because advertising isn't intrinsically linked to the sport.

Yes it's growing in popularity. Yes people watch it. Yes, there is demand. But without advertisers in on it, there's no push.

Just think of it like a video game without advertising. A good game will still sell well, but if there aren't any advertisers pushing it, it will never reach its potential. When you're invested in a medium, you do what you can to maximize your impact. Like coors, you'll have an ad on monday night football, produce beer coozies, and try to get your name on anything in the game. You invest in making a magazine for each game so that you can control your own advertising at a cheaper price with more impact. You fund the groundskeepers so you can have you brand cut into the grass. You might fund new chairs for a stadium that have your logo on them. Or you might buy jerseys, or sports-cards, or game-advertising rights, and what have you.

All of these things improve the quality level of the fan experience.

Now, with baseball, you have roughly an hour+ of commercials. Let's say that breaks down to 100-50 commercials. That makes every commercial very cheap, and you can have several. Then look at soccer, where there are like, only 4-5 commercial breaks (they sometimes go to commercial during play).  That makes commercials very expensive. More expensive means you have significantly less diverse companies. Less companies means less people involved, less people means fewer ideas. It's a snowball effect. With baseball so heavily branded, you can't find something that doesn't have a hand in it or an ad during its breaks. Calendars, watches, pens, bike helmets, motorcycles. You will see so much variation during a baseball game, it's uncanny.

Absolutely, we are going to see more growth in soccer...but I promise you it will come through advertising. They just need to figure out how to do it without interrupting the game.

Television is the last great fontier and as I pointed out they just landed their first massive television deal for 2015 to 2022, 90 million a year or five times what they were getting.

"Major League Soccer's (MLS) deal is not only a sign of great growth for the soccer league after signing a new eight-year deal with ESPN, Fox Sports and Univision worth a combined $720 million dollars, but also a huge boon increasing their broadcast rights by five-times from their previous agreement."


Was that in the article? This is big news indeed. But how do you think those networks are going to afford that contract? It's going to take a lot of advertising to pay that off.

But yes, this is great news for soccer. Monetization really was the only thing standing in its way.