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Forums - Microsoft - The Death of HD-DVD and Why Microsoft is Dying

NJ5 said:
I think we have inflicted a few lethal wounds on this article, and it looks like it's dying.

It's called damage control.

 

"Microsoft is barely invested in HD-DVD at all"

 

"Vista isn't a failure"

 

It's simple guys. Microsoft isn't gonna "die" but its certainly not the monopoly it once was, as Windows can't push proprietary technology like it once could.

 

I would like some discussion from some literate posters who have actually read the post, and aren't Microsoft fanboys, if that's possible. Some people that perhaps can refute, or argue against the actual article itself instead of the person who wrote it, in a big smear campaign.

 

Worse than the New Your Times, I swear. Stop being fanboys. 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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Bodhesatva said:
 

Vista isn't a failure by economic standards. By image standards? Maybe, but that's all in the ether anyway. I personally have negative feelings about Vista but there is no real hard evidence to suggest it's a failure in business terms.

Most of what he's saying isn't refutable because it's vague. Take this, for example. "Microsoft’s monopoly power is dissolving, and its ability to create anti-competitive partnerships and exclusive alliances is also falling apart." Geez, I guess that might be true, but what proof do we have? I can give some evidence to the contrary: Microsoft profits are up up up, and they're making more money now than ever before.

He also had to correct himself about the Xbox/Xbox360 comparison, and used shipment data, not sold data, to compare the 360's second to its first year (the 360 actually seems to have sold more consoles to consumers, but shipped less because they stuffed the channel the Christmas prior). So when he does get specific, he's often explicitly wrong or at least misleading.

But there is one, big, major error here that I can point to specifically and say this is wrong: "The reality is that Microsoft is forced to falsify reports and color numbers because reality doesn’t support the illusion of Microsoft’s unquestionable market power."

Let me make this clear -- falsifying financial reports is a serious charge and has legal consequences for a publicly traded company. There is no indication that Microsoft has done any such thing, and he provides no evidence whatsoever. As for "coloring the numbers?" That's back to vagueries. Every company "colors their numbers." Every.single.one. It's like saying "Microsoft tries to beat out it's competition, even if they don't have a superior product."

 

Nice analysis. I also don't think MS is falsifying financial reports.

 

My bigger concern is that the company has become a developer of inferior products, like the 360(RRoD) and Vista(Vista copyright tech, and vista's attempts to exclude the use of anything that doesn't make MS money), and uses those mediums to push its trademarks in an effort to tax the industry, instead of innovate it.

 

As for their press releases, they're obviously bullshit, but bullshit to the point of being illegal, I think they hover just on the "legal" edge of that line.

 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

@NJ5

Well I don't think "fanboys" can ever be united NJ5......do you as that literally breaks the meaning of a fanboy

I mean the closest we've seen is something like fanboys uniting wii60 (against PS3) --- but that died out long back.

n SONy & M$ fanboys uniting is impossible



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Yeah, I can't say that I agree either.

In retrospect though, it is really a shame that Microsoft didn't support HDDVD as much as this article seems to suggest they did.

Even now if Microsoft had backed it whole heartedly and included the HDDVD inside of the 360. Even if it had lost to Blu-Ray and was in the current state it is in now, it would still not be so bad. Games can survive on HD-DVD in the future for Microsoft cant they? Microsoft wouldn't have to pay Sony royalties for Blu-Ray, and they would have their own proprietary game format disc in HDDVD.

I even think that if some time passed, and mirosoft really grew balsy they could support HD-DVD movies in the same proprietary fassion that Sony supports UMD's for the PSP.

Oh , but that wouldn't work, I forgot, sony wons alot of movie studios don't they, thats why UMD's were able to stay afloat for so long.
okay. so in conclusion, HD-DVD would not ever be cost effective for MS, but you have to admit, it was an okay idea.

im rambling, its late , i apologize for the incoherent ramblings.



̶3̶R̶D̶   2ND! Place has never been so sweet.


ZenfoldorVGI, I think you're jumping to conclusions with your accusations of fanboyism. The fact is that Microsoft barely invested in HD-DVD.

1- They made a HD-DVD add-on for the 360, which is only used for movies and wasn't heavily promoted.

2- You can play HD-DVD movies in Vista, but you can also play Blu-Ray ones.

The fact is that no matter whether MS is dying or not, this article is crap, and the posts above prove it.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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darthdevidem01 said:
@NJ5

Well I don't think "fanboys" can ever be united NJ5......do you as that literally breaks the meaning of a fanboy

I mean the closest we've seen is something like fanboys uniting wii60 (against PS3) --- but that died out long back.

n SONy & M$ fanboys uniting is impossible

I don't necessarily hate Microsoft. I do feel they attempt to milk their consumers, and have become jaded since they decided to drop XP support completely, and my 360 RRoD'd. I'm a PSWii man now, so when talking to me, don't assume that I'm an unbiased observer.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

NJ5 said:
ZenfoldorVGI, I think you're jumping to conclusions with your accusations of fanboyism. The fact is that Microsoft barely invested in HD-DVD.

1- They made a HD-DVD add-on for the 360, which is only used for movies and wasn't heavily promoted.

2- You can play HD-DVD movies in Vista, but you can also play Blu-Ray ones.

The fact is that no matter whether MS is dying or not, this article is crap, and the posts above prove it.

1. If you read the article, it actually reviews the entire relationship between HD-DVD and microsoft, which seems to be fairly factual, and makes your numbered point seem like you just made it up from assumptions.

2. That is also completely covered thoroughly in the article, and more in-depth analysis reveals some information you seem to not know.

 

As for you being a fanboy, your either the biggest MS fanboy around, or just an asshole towards me personally, because I was simply trying to post an article that, I assume, might have a certain tilt against MS towards the end, but is filled with interesting information, and large amounts stuff that you would need to know to even take place in the argument.

 

Nothing you(nor anyone but that mod)has said so far has been even remotely related to the majority of the blog, nor does it address any concerns. Your assertion that, even though you have only "skimmed" the blog, you simply assume enough off the top of your head to discredit it, and that somehow "proves" someone elses opinions are wrong, is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard. Go sell that somewhere else.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Lingyis said:
how is HD-DVD even remotely gonna be tied to microsoft's future success? oh right, they're not. the title is worse than many ssj12's titles... no offense.


SSJ12 is a quality poster, though he and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, at least he knows how to tell everyone to stfu when they're being "internetish".



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Bodhesatva said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Bodhesatva said:

Whew, just finished reading the entirety of that silliness. The easiest rebuttle is this one:

1) It's a blog. From a guy. Just some guy.

2) His description of his blog: "I’m Daniel Eran Dilger, and I write about technology, Apple, motorcycles and the place I call home: San Francisco"

Sooooo this is the analysis of some guy who happens to be an Apple fan, a notoriously rabid lot even by VGChartz standards. Not saying there isn't some valid information in there, just pointing out that this is clearly tilted analysis.


Perhaps, but I can't personally rebute a single line in it, and quite a lot of the stuff he did write is completely true, imo, such as the 360's position in the console race, and the failure of the Zune and Vista, as well as the overly complex and unneeded spin MS puts on every concievable piece of industry negativity that comes out, like January NPD.


Vista isn't a failure by economic standards. By image standards? Maybe, but that's all in the ether anyway. I personally have negative feelings about Vista but there is no real hard evidence to suggest it's a failure in business terms.

Most of what he's saying isn't refutable because it's vague. Take this, for example. "Microsoft’s monopoly power is dissolving, and its ability to create anti-competitive partnerships and exclusive alliances is also falling apart." Geez, I guess that might be true, but what proof do we have? I can give some evidence to the contrary: Microsoft profits are up up up, and they're making more money now than ever before.

He also had to correct himself about the Xbox/Xbox360 comparison, and used shipment data, not sold data, to compare the 360's second to its first year (the 360 actually seems to have sold more consoles to consumers, but shipped less because they stuffed the channel the Christmas prior). So when he does get specific, he's often explicitly wrong or at least misleading.

But there is one, big, major error here that I can point to specifically and say this is wrong: "The reality is that Microsoft is forced to falsify reports and color numbers because reality doesn’t support the illusion of Microsoft’s unquestionable market power."

Let me make this clear -- falsifying financial reports is a serious charge and has legal consequences for a publicly traded company. There is no indication that Microsoft has done any such thing, and he provides no evidence whatsoever. As for "coloring the numbers?" That's back to vagueries. Every company "colors their numbers." Every.single.one. It's like saying "Microsoft tries to beat out it's competition, even if they don't have a superior product."

 


A while back Business Week did an analysis on the cost to make Vista and estimated that just the payroll for the development was ~$10 billion.  The fact that they had to start from scratch part of the way through probably hurt them a bit but in no way is Vista anything but a complete and utter failure in terms of economics.  $10b to make an OS is retarded and its probably the most money spent on developing software by a factor of 10x or 20x.....seriously Vista is horrendous from an economic standpoint.

I will admit that its an estimate but I think even if they were off by 80% on the low side I would still be justified in saying Vista is an economic failure so it doesn't really matter.... 



To Each Man, Responsibility

I'm sorry but an article including "Microsoft is dying" in its name better be more based on facts about the whole company than being mostly about a format which Microsoft never cared much about.

I am not a MS fanboy (I don't own a 360), and what I posted is nothing directed to you personally. I openly admitted that I didn't read the whole article (because frankly I don't care about the detailed history of HD-DVD).

Furthermore, after reading Bod's remarks, it's very obvious that it would be a waste of time to read this article. Who cares about doingpoint-to-point rebuttals when the general tone of the article itself reveals that we shouldn't trust the author and his arguments? If we paid that much attention to every "microsoft is dying" article, we'd be discussing them all day, because there are many!

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957