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Forums - PC Discussion - AMD is working on a brand new x86 CPU core

rolltide101x said:
walsufnir said:
rolltide101x said:
walsufnir said:
They have to find a way beside Intel which they currently only can compete with in terms of price.

AMD APUs are vastly superior to Intel. Try playing any decent games with an Intel APU.....

In fact for my next laptop I am going to buy a laptop with a 1080p screen and an A10 APU

 

Right now I have a quad i7 and an Nvidia GT650M GPU with a 1366x768 screen


But APUs aren't the topic here - it's about a new CPU core. Generally I don't like gaming laptops - they are just not made for serious gaming. Power restrictions, thermal aspects, much noise due to heat, often bad screens to play on.  The inability to upgrade them was planned years ago (I think MXM interface it was called) but as I quit gaming on PC severaly ago, too, I didn't follow the stuff like I did before I quit.

You do have a point there.

 

But my laptop can run Skyrim at 1080p at 50 FPS with ultra HD textures.  But my next laptop (with the AMD A10 APU) will be a bit less powerful but that is ok because I seriously play indie games on my PC 90% of the time... Good use of my quad-core i7 and dedicated GPU lol.

The A10 (I am estimating) will play Skyrim at 1080p at 50 FPS on probably medium settings. That is enough power for me. I am just saying that no Intel APU could accomplish this


It's a market where Intel already has the biggest market share. They keep improving their IGPs but it isn't their main target. Last quarter they already had a market share of 65,1%. To achieve even more they had to do dedicated cards but I doubt they will ever do this. Larrabee ended in Xeon Phi but I doubt this will ever reach normal consumers.



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walsufnir said:
rolltide101x said:
walsufnir said:


But APUs aren't the topic here - it's about a new CPU core. Generally I don't like gaming laptops - they are just not made for serious gaming. Power restrictions, thermal aspects, much noise due to heat, often bad screens to play on.  The inability to upgrade them was planned years ago (I think MXM interface it was called) but as I quit gaming on PC severaly ago, too, I didn't follow the stuff like I did before I quit.

You do have a point there.

 

But my laptop can run Skyrim at 1080p at 50 FPS with ultra HD textures.  But my next laptop (with the AMD A10 APU) will be a bit less powerful but that is ok because I seriously play indie games on my PC 90% of the time... Good use of my quad-core i7 and dedicated GPU lol.

The A10 (I am estimating) will play Skyrim at 1080p at 50 FPS on probably medium settings. That is enough power for me. I am just saying that no Intel APU could accomplish this


It's a market where Intel already has the biggest market share. They keep improving their IGPs but it isn't their main target. Last quarter they already had a market share of 65,1%. To achieve even more they had to do dedicated cards but I doubt they will ever do this. Larrabee ended in Xeon Phi but I doubt this will ever reach normal consumers.

A big part of that is due to it being harder to find computers with AMD and most people not even realizing the difference. All my PCs for now on will be powered by AMD I like them for taking a stand for consoles and I am mad at Nvidia for comparing 1000$+ GPUS to a 400$ console lol



rolltide101x said:
walsufnir said:


It's a market where Intel already has the biggest market share. They keep improving their IGPs but it isn't their main target. Last quarter they already had a market share of 65,1%. To achieve even more they had to do dedicated cards but I doubt they will ever do this. Larrabee ended in Xeon Phi but I doubt this will ever reach normal consumers.

A big part of that is due to it being harder to find computers with AMD and most people not even realizing the difference. All my PCs for now on will be powered by AMD I like them for taking a stand for consoles and I am mad at Nvidia for comparing 1000$+ GPUS to a 400$ console lol


I would want to correct with "and most people not even caring about the difference". People who buy IGPs intentionally (whether AMD or Intel) are not the hardcore gamers, anyway. I don't know about the current state of tech regarding Notebook tech but Intel was intentionally chosen far more often in Notebooks as their designs generally had way better TDP and idle power consumption. IIRC the Turion never had a chance against Centrino based Notebooks and therefore only a few barebones featured AMD tech.



walsufnir said:
rolltide101x said:

A big part of that is due to it being harder to find computers with AMD and most people not even realizing the difference. All my PCs for now on will be powered by AMD I like them for taking a stand for consoles and I am mad at Nvidia for comparing 1000$+ GPUS to a 400$ console lol


I would want to correct with "and most people not even caring about the difference". People who buy IGPs intentionally (whether AMD or Intel) are not the hardcore gamers, anyway. I don't know about the current state of tech regarding Notebook tech but Intel was intentionally chosen far more often in Notebooks as their designs generally had way better TDP and idle power consumption. IIRC the Turion never had a chance against Centrino based Notebooks and therefore only a few barebones featured AMD tech.

AMD notebooks tend to have a longer battery life than Intel ones from my experience. I do not know the facts though. I think anyone would take an A4 over a Centrino if they knew the differences. It is the AMD E-series that is really bad.



rolltide101x said:
walsufnir said:
rolltide101x said:
 

A big part of that is due to it being harder to find computers with AMD and most people not even realizing the difference. All my PCs for now on will be powered by AMD I like them for taking a stand for consoles and I am mad at Nvidia for comparing 1000$+ GPUS to a 400$ console lol


I would want to correct with "and most people not even caring about the difference". People who buy IGPs intentionally (whether AMD or Intel) are not the hardcore gamers, anyway. I don't know about the current state of tech regarding Notebook tech but Intel was intentionally chosen far more often in Notebooks as their designs generally had way better TDP and idle power consumption. IIRC the Turion never had a chance against Centrino based Notebooks and therefore only a few barebones featured AMD tech.

AMD notebooks tend to have a longer battery life than Intel ones from my experience. I do not know the facts though. I think anyone would take an A4 over a Centrino if they knew the differences. It is the AMD E-series that is really bad.


I always bought expensive notebooks so I don't know about AMD and only the stuff that was some years ago.

I never used them for gaming and to me it was especially important to have a high Linux compatibility which is almost always guaranteed with Intel hardware.

So if you buy a Dell Latitude or a Thinkpad "lspci" (a Linux command line utility which will list pci-devices) will show a lot of Intel hardware. If you buy cheap, you get cheap. And this also means damn cheap Linux support.

I know a lot of people who would easily spend more money to get rock-solid hardware which is Linux-compatible and don't give a sh** about gpu-performance.



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Pemalite said:

Intel's Iris Pro is actually extremely potent and will give an AMD APU/nVidia Geforce M a run for it's money in sheer performance.
It's even faster than AMD's Radeon 8670D in many instances by upwards of 25% or more.

This especially ... You wouldn't believe the amount of crap that I keep hearing about Intel graphics. Their not exactly high end but they do stack up quite decently today and I'm willing to bet that once broadwell releases AMD won't be touting their integrated graphics capabilities at all for their APUs anymore. 

Personally speaking I felt that Intel has done more for graphics technology than what AMD or Nvidia has pulled off recently. You have to give some serious credits to Intel for pixel sync as it does some pretty awesome stuff like adaptive transparency and deep shadow maps. Definitely more interested in that than Mantle or DX12. 

*Hopes AMD bring programmable blending to pirate islands* 



walsufnir said:


It's a market where Intel already has the biggest market share. They keep improving their IGPs but it isn't their main target. Last quarter they already had a market share of 65,1%. To achieve even more they had to do dedicated cards but I doubt they will ever do this. Larrabee ended in Xeon Phi but I doubt this will ever reach normal consumers.


They tried to make dedicated discreet graphics processors, it was a *massive* flop, I introduce you to the AGP Intel i740...



Fact of the matter is, Intel has never been proficient at building graphics hardware, usually just "good enough". - What HAS occured is that AMD raised the "Good enough" bar with it's APU's and Intel has to match or exceed it (Aka. Competition does wonderfull things!), however drivers still leave much to be desired in Intel's camp.
AMD is essentially playing against Intel's weakness.

walsufnir said:


I would want to correct with "and most people not even caring about the difference". People who buy IGPs intentionally (whether AMD or Intel) are not the hardcore gamers, anyway. I don't know about the current state of tech regarding Notebook tech but Intel was intentionally chosen far more often in Notebooks as their designs generally had way better TDP and idle power consumption. IIRC the Turion never had a chance against Centrino based Notebooks and therefore only a few barebones featured AMD tech.


Intel didn't just have lower TDP and power consumption, but they sold an "Entire package" to OEM's which started with Centrino, that's chipset, processor, graphics, controllers, networking etc'.
Which when you're buying and building systems in bulk is a very attractive proposition, this is how Intel got the leg up over AMD in the notebook space.
Prior to that Intel used some pretty bad practices to try and exclude AMD out of the market during AMD's domination period with the Athlon XP and Athlon 64.

Converesly, Intel has MASSIVE marketing budgets, more so than AMD could ever dream of (We are thinking Billions) this throws another consumer-recognizable name onto the face of a notebook to help shift hardware.

rolltide101x said:

AMD notebooks tend to have a longer battery life than Intel ones from my experience. I do not know the facts though. I think anyone would take an A4 over a Centrino if they knew the differences. It is the AMD E-series that is really bad.

No they don't.

AMD processors tend to be hotter, more power hungry and slower in almost every segment, this is slowly changing however.
Intel had low-powered states before AMD (Where it will reduce the clockspeeds and/or voltages.), power gating where it will completely shut-off parts of the chip, heck even dynamically-powered caches where chunks of say... The L2 cache will be turned off in order to conserve energy.
Intel is also much farther ahead in lithography, which helps with various power characteristics.

Plus Intel processors are significantly faster, if you are doing *any* kind of processing... The sooner you can get the data processed, the sooner the processor can return to idle and consume a very tiny amount of energy, again, because of Intels CPU advantage, this also benefits power consumption.

There is also more to power consumption than the CPU too, chipsets, display, connectivity, various controllers all consume energy, for instance when Intel introduced the Intel Atom, they essentially just re-used a hot and old power hungry chipset that was a few nodes behind on the CPU's lithography, the result was the Chipset consumed almost as much energy as the processor itself, thus the first-gen Atom's tend to be power hogs because of it.

walsufnir said:

 The inability to upgrade them was planned years ago (I think MXM interface it was called) but as I quit gaming on PC severaly ago, too, I didn't follow the stuff like I did before I quit.

MXM and AXIOM. :P




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
walsufnir said:

 The inability to upgrade them was planned years ago (I think MXM interface it was called) but as I quit gaming on PC severaly ago, too, I didn't follow the stuff like I did before I quit.

MXM and AXIOM. :P



Yes, there was a second one - I just didn't want to google it :) But you are right about the "Centrino package". It was a smart move for Intel but also a good decision for consumers, in my opinion. Say what you want about intel hardware but they are definitely always what is top of the market. Especially the 2200BG chip was great at its time and my guess is that current wlan modules they build are also very good. It also helped to make notebooks in general more compatible to Linux as crucial hardware was from Intel and they have a very good driver support and generally very good Linux support until today.



fatslob-:O said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

I can read it, and Intel reserves the right to allow AMD such things only if it obtains its explicit permission, otherwise, in case of such changes in AMD ownership, AMD will keep its cross-licensing rights only for "microprocessors for use in a Personal Computer". It limits AMD rights on those techs to CPUs and APUs to be used in desktop and portable PCs (as defined in section 1.5), it DOESN'T revoke them. So, in case of change of ownership, AMD would be prevented to make x86 CPUs to be used in tablets and phones or other devices using embedded processors. Not a terrible loss, as ARM, MIPS and PowerPC/POWER are already the undisputed leader architectures in those markets (with ARM being overwhelming on phones and tablets and MIPS and PowerPC/POWER more competitive in other markets).

6.3 Change of Control . In the event of a Change of Control of AMD, the definition of AMD Microprocessor as defined in Section 1.5 shall be limited to those devices that fell within Section 1.5 on the date of the Change of Control and shall further be limited to x86 AMD Microprocessors for use in a Personal Computer.

“ Change of Control ” shall mean:

(1) any Person or group of Persons (as the term “group” is interpreted pursuant to Rule 13d-5 under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended) (the “Acquiring Person”) acquires (i) beneficial ownership of capital stock of AMD entitling the holder(s) thereof to more than fifty percent (50%) of the voting power of the then outstanding capital stock of AMD with respect to the election of directors of AMD, or (ii) an interest sufficient to receive more than fifty percent (50%) of the profits or losses of AMD; or

(2) AMD enters into a merger, consolidation, reorganization or similar transaction (or series of related transactions) with any Person or group of Persons in which less than fifty percent (50%) of the voting power of the outstanding capital stock of AMD (if it is the surviving entity) or of the Acquiring Person (if it is the surviving entity) with respect to the election of directors following such transaction is held directly or indirectly by Persons who were shareholders of AMD immediately prior to such transaction (or series of transactions); or

(3) AMD sells to any Person(s) in one or more related transactions properties or assets representing all or substantially all of the properties and assets of AMD.

Section 1.5 is related to the term “ AMD Microprocessor ” - shall have the same meaning as the term “AMD Processor” in the New Patent Cross License. 

It makes no distinction between the different markets the processors are meant for and is only referencing AMD's x86 processors in general so if AMD even attempts to transfer 50% of the voting power to another entity they will really lose all rights to the patents in the cross licensing agreements. 

It actually would be a big loss for AMD to be not able to produce x86 processors in the mobile space as it has some fair profit margins compared to AMD losing money in the desktop space. 
MIPS is irrelevant and PowerPC is a total failure. 

I guess we read different things in that wording: it starts explicitly saying that in case of change of AMD ownership, the licensing will be further limited to AMD processors made for PCs, not totally revoked...
Section 1.5 is just about definitions, and they apply to the whole contract, but in Section 6.3 a distinction is introduced to clearly state that in case of change of ownership AMD from then on can use cross-licensed tech only in that explicitly named market, PC (that is clearly defined too in Section 1.5).

About your last points:
Yes MIPS and PowerPC are almost irrelevant on tablets and phones, that currently are the biggest user device markets, but they are still present in other embedded markets both for users and enterprises.
About phones and tablets, AMD can still make GPUs for them, and not only, it can go downstream instead of upstream in those markets and make, alone or in joint-ventures, ARM+Radeon-based APUs. Outside of PC market companies don't give a damn if Intel doesn't license them x86, actually they don't even ask for it. Actually, without AMD, Intel chances to expand the share of x86 architecture in the markets outside of PC decrease, and given that one-sided deal with AMD, it's very unlikely that other companies will want to take AMD's uncomfortable place in markets where such deals with Intel aren't needed at all, when POWER and ARM are licensed in a far fairer way (MIPS too, but despite not dead it's weaker than POWER and ARM, except in China, where it's still quite strong and liked).



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


walsufnir said:
rolltide101x said:
walsufnir said:
rolltide101x said:
 

A big part of that is due to it being harder to find computers with AMD and most people not even realizing the difference. All my PCs for now on will be powered by AMD I like them for taking a stand for consoles and I am mad at Nvidia for comparing 1000$+ GPUS to a 400$ console lol


I would want to correct with "and most people not even caring about the difference". People who buy IGPs intentionally (whether AMD or Intel) are not the hardcore gamers, anyway. I don't know about the current state of tech regarding Notebook tech but Intel was intentionally chosen far more often in Notebooks as their designs generally had way better TDP and idle power consumption. IIRC the Turion never had a chance against Centrino based Notebooks and therefore only a few barebones featured AMD tech.

AMD notebooks tend to have a longer battery life than Intel ones from my experience. I do not know the facts though. I think anyone would take an A4 over a Centrino if they knew the differences. It is the AMD E-series that is really bad.


I always bought expensive notebooks so I don't know about AMD and only the stuff that was some years ago.

I never used them for gaming and to me it was especially important to have a high Linux compatibility which is almost always guaranteed with Intel hardware.

So if you buy a Dell Latitude or a Thinkpad "lspci" (a Linux command line utility which will list pci-devices) will show a lot of Intel hardware. If you buy cheap, you get cheap. And this also means damn cheap Linux support.

I know a lot of people who would easily spend more money to get rock-solid hardware which is Linux-compatible and don't give a sh** about gpu-performance.

Linux has better support for AMD hardware than Intel hardware for the most part. You said you do not game on your laptops, Intel graphics drivers are not great on Linux. AMD drivers are on par with WIndows (for the most part).

Nvidia drivers are the most annoying on Linux. I have gamed extensively on Linux for years on various hardware configs and I know this is true.

 

I had been waiting ages for Nvidia to release a proper driver for Linux and they finally did recently.