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Forums - PC Discussion - AMD is working on a brand new x86 CPU core

Soleron said:

Zappykins said:

But aren't phones going to be going 64 bit too?

ARM is going to 64 bit to be more powerful, and x86 is getting more efficient. Somewhere they will meet in the middle.

64-bit doesn't refer to a design's power. It only refers to the length of data the chip processes. A single ARM core is still very weak compared to a single Intel core.

x86 is not getting more efficient, it's just that Intel's process lead is getting bigger.

Well, I was refering to what both are working on with there next gen or two. 

Windows now runs on ARM as well as x64. It makes it possible to make a Windows tablet which should have a really nice batter life.   ARM chips are less powerful, but they use quite a bit less power.   So you make some sacrafice, but get some bonuses.

Intel, seems to be heavily foccuses on lowering the power for their chips, more than just making them more powerful right now.  I know their shrinking manufacting process helps, but it's also how they are designing the chip. And the new DDR4 RAM runs at a lower voltage too.

Intel wants to get into more phones.  They are replaced so often - it's a good business to be in.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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fatslob-:O said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Think again. Yes, AMD is currently almost always one or more steps behind Intel, but it doesn't stand still, and should Intel slow down, AMD would reach it, so even staying behind, AMD actually forces Intel to evolve fast to keep its lead. Without this even strongly asymmetrical competition, Intel could keep on selling overpriced crap like it did before AMD gathered all the engineers it could from other Intel competitors gone bankrupt and in a few years made great leaps from k5 to k6, k6-II, k6-III and finally its masterpiece, Athlon.
BTW Athlon would have deserved the leadership on desktops from 1999 to 2006, without PC producers and specialised journalists undeservedly favouring Intel in that period, AMD would be in a better shape and the race far more balanced.
Also, I wouldn't credit Intel too much for innovation, its fast growth started when with MS they managed to put their moles at HP, SGI, Compaq-DEC to kill the best selling Unix versions and RISC CPUs to clear the way to Win NT and Itanium. Despite the elimination of Alpha, the most powerful CPU of its times, Itanium eventually failed, as even Itanium 2 struggled to tie with older and cheaper Alpha CPUs, and Intel was forced to return to x86 derivatives also for high-end servers and workstations and cluster nodes, with the Xeon, but it managed to put its grubby paws on the unused newer DEC Alpha projects, buying them for far less than their true value (they had in their drawers, at various stages of development, the projects for several never released next generations of Alpha). We don't know how much of that know-how could be easily reused on CISC CPUs, but it's not casual that very few years after Intel development started an impressive acceleration.

"Intel should slow down" ? LOL That was a funny joke. AMD isn't forcing anyone anything but Intel keeping it's lead is mostly due to the fact that they WANT to make a good product. I'll admit that Intel screwed up but this time they'll never screw up again like they did with the pentium 4 and itanium. 

There's literally no future for AMD in the next 10 years. They've been losing money and market share constantly. 

No, I wrote "should Intel slow down" meaning "if Intel slowed down".
AMD isn't the competitor it used to be in its best moments, but it's still at least some competition in the value range and IMVHO it's too optimistic to think that with no competition at all Intel wouldn't abuse its monopoly position. Its past record gives us no reasons to not worry.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:

No, I wrote "should Intel slow down" meaning "if Intel slowed down".
AMD isn't the competitor it used to be in its best moments, but it's still at least some competition in the value range and IMVHO it's too optimistic to think that with no competition at all Intel wouldn't abuse its monopoly position. Its past record gives us no reasons to not worry.

Newsflash, Intel will never slowdown ... AMD has only had 3 good years out of it's entire 45 years in the business. Their shares used to be worth over $30 a piece but now it's less than $5 a share. 

How exactly is selling chips at a loss a competition ? There is no competition, period. Trust me, If AMD left the x86 market right now I bet Intel wouldn't bat an eye and just continue making more processors like no one's business. For the past 8 years AMD has being doing nothing but failing or sucking at the same time according to Cliff Maier to which I wholly agree on.

All the moves that AMD has made in the past years such as respinning the same old chips in the past, spinning off their fabs to globalfoundries, and dropping their high performance x86 segment just shows that their all that desperate.

AMD is nothing but shame and abomination in my eyes after all these years of supporting their one and only worthwhile graphics division. The AMD that I once knew that made the Athlon 64's back in the days weren't so lame or such cowards like they are now. They have dishonored their once good brand and name therefore they are not worthy being memorable anymore in my eyes anymore like they used to be. 

Like it or not this is coming from an AMD graphics chip customer and I only see AMD in a state of disgust or disgrace. It's all their fault for bringing this upon themselves. 



Zappykins said:
...

Intel wants to get into more phones.  They are replaced so often - it's a good business to be in.

Actually, that's not true. The margins on phone chips are razor thin. Intel are required to maintain 60% gross margin by their major investors, so outright selling phone chips in place of current competitors is impossible for them.



Soleron said:
Zappykins said:
...

Intel wants to get into more phones.  They are replaced so often - it's a good business to be in.

Actually, that's not true. The margins on phone chips are razor thin. Intel are required to maintain 60% gross margin by their major investors, so outright selling phone chips in place of current competitors is impossible for them.

Well, this site from Intel seems to disagree with that:  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/smartphones/smartphones.html

"Smartphones with Intel Inside®"



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Around the Network
Zappykins said:
Soleron said:
Zappykins said:
...

Intel wants to get into more phones.  They are replaced so often - it's a good business to be in.

Actually, that's not true. The margins on phone chips are razor thin. Intel are required to maintain 60% gross margin by their major investors, so outright selling phone chips in place of current competitors is impossible for them.

Well, this site from Intel seems to disagree with that:  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/smartphones/smartphones.html

"Smartphones with Intel Inside®"

The main reason for Intel to chase phones and tablets is mostly to try and keep x86 as relevent as possible, only three manufacturers actually create x86 processors, two of which have an insignificant market share, thus Intel by extension has a monopoly on the x86 market.
If ARM gains traction, then the value of x86 declines as OEM's have other alternatives that are potentially cheaper, not a good proposition for Intel as suddenly it has dozens more competitors.

Thus they *must* compete with ARM.
Intel have already released mobile processors utilising Atom (Aka. Medfield and it's derivatives), which were not only faster, but more-often cheaper than their ARM equivalents, the largest design win however was with Samsungs Galaxy Tab 3 10.1, a mid-range tablet.



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fatslob-:O said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

No, I wrote "should Intel slow down" meaning "if Intel slowed down".
AMD isn't the competitor it used to be in its best moments, but it's still at least some competition in the value range and IMVHO it's too optimistic to think that with no competition at all Intel wouldn't abuse its monopoly position. Its past record gives us no reasons to not worry.

Newsflash, Intel will never slowdown ... AMD has only had 3 good years out of it's entire 45 years in the business. Their shares used to be worth over $30 a piece but now it's less than $5 a share. 

How exactly is selling chips at a loss a competition ? There is no competition, period. Trust me, If AMD left the x86 market right now I bet Intel wouldn't bat an eye and just continue making more processors like no one's business. For the past 8 years AMD has being doing nothing but failing or sucking at the same time according to Cliff Maier to which I wholly agree on.

All the moves that AMD has made in the past years such as respinning the same old chips in the past, spinning off their fabs to globalfoundries, and dropping their high performance x86 segment just shows that their all that desperate.

AMD is nothing but shame and abomination in my eyes after all these years of supporting their one and only worthwhile graphics division. The AMD that I once knew that made the Athlon 64's back in the days weren't so lame or such cowards like they are now. They have dishonored their once good brand and name therefore they are not worthy being memorable anymore in my eyes anymore like they used to be. 

Like it or not this is coming from an AMD graphics chip customer and I only see AMD in a state of disgust or disgrace. It's all their fault for bringing this upon themselves. 

You mentioned GPUs and you didn't notice it's just a field Intel never was able to compete in, but AMD, since it merged with ATI, was and still is. AMD financial troubles surely affects its possibilities, but don't disprove its talent, rather it tells us very bad things about its management. Like Sony, AMD would better be taken over by some rich and well managed giant.
And you keep on trusting Intel despite history should have taught you not to.
You're right about being pissed off with AMD for having wasted its past advantage, but don't let your disappointment blind you.
As for me, I'd like IBM to take AMD over, they already collaborated and they are in good relationships, maybe the only thing preventing it is that IBM surely wants to maintain good relationships with and keep on licensing its patents to every chip producer, including Intel.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:

You mentioned GPUs and you didn't notice it's just a field Intel never was able to compete in, but AMD, since it merged with ATI, was and still is. AMD financial troubles surely affects its possibilities, but don't disprove its talent, rather it tells us very bad things about its management. Like Sony, AMD would better be taken over by some rich and well managed giant.
And you keep on trusting Intel despite history should have taught you not to.
You're right about being pissed off with AMD for having wasted its past advantage, but don't let your disappointment blind you.
As for me, I'd like IBM to take AMD over, they already collaborated and they are in good relationships, maybe the only thing preventing it is that IBM surely wants to maintain good relationships with and keep on licensing its patents to every chip producer, including Intel.

Oh just you wait ... Intel won't be entering in the discrete GPU market but they have a GPGPU compute solution just for the HPC market that will outright shit on both AMD and Nvidia right there. 

Don't disprove it's talents ? AMD's CPU team have no talents! How am I supposed to believe that a floundering division has talent when they don't even have the guys that made the Athlon 64's while getting humiliated for 8 whole years straight up!

Unlike AMD, Sony on the other hand has actual potential to be profitable and the amount of money they get off of the insurance division destroys what AMD get's from it's graphics divsion. AMD's management is alot worse than Sony's so there will be no spinning it. 

Do you have a reason to not trust that Intel will deliver on their products compared to AMD ? 

Tell me a reason to be not dissappointed ... They have squandered every god damn chance they can get their hands on. Intel sharing patents with AMD is a total loss. They have no money left to boot and they sold off their own god damned fabs only to have a second rate foundry replace their semiconductor manufacturing process. (Though I guess globalfoundries have done something useful for once like licensing samsung's 14nm technology but AMD will also screw up that chance too judging by their history.)

The real kicker here is if anyone purchases AMD they will lose all rights to it's x86 patents and that includes is AMD64 license whereas Intel gets to keep every x86 patents if it gets bought by a larger entity! All of AMD's x86 patents are not transferable compared to Intel. 



fatslob-:O said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

You mentioned GPUs and you didn't notice it's just a field Intel never was able to compete in, but AMD, since it merged with ATI, was and still is. AMD financial troubles surely affects its possibilities, but don't disprove its talent, rather it tells us very bad things about its management. Like Sony, AMD would better be taken over by some rich and well managed giant.
And you keep on trusting Intel despite history should have taught you not to.
You're right about being pissed off with AMD for having wasted its past advantage, but don't let your disappointment blind you.
As for me, I'd like IBM to take AMD over, they already collaborated and they are in good relationships, maybe the only thing preventing it is that IBM surely wants to maintain good relationships with and keep on licensing its patents to every chip producer, including Intel.

Oh just you wait ... Intel won't be entering in the discrete GPU market but they have a GPGPU compute solution just for the HPC market that will outright shit on both AMD and Nvidia right there. 

Don't disprove it's talents ? AMD's CPU team have no talents! How am I supposed to believe that a floundering division has talent when they don't even have the guys that made the Athlon 64's while getting humiliated for 8 whole years straight up!

Unlike AMD, Sony on the other hand has actual potential to be profitable and the amount of money they get off of the insurance division destroys what AMD get's from it's graphics divsion. AMD's management is alot worse than Sony's so there will be no spinning it. 

Do you have a reason to not trust that Intel will deliver on their products compared to AMD ? 

Tell me a reason to be not dissappointed ... They have squandered every god damn chance they can get their hands on. Intel sharing patents with AMD is a total loss. They have no money left to boot and they sold off their own god damned fabs only to have a second rate foundry replace their semiconductor manufacturing process. (Though I guess globalfoundries have done something useful for once like licensing samsung's 14nm technology but AMD will also screw up that chance too judging by their history.)

The real kicker here is if anyone purchases AMD they will lose all rights to it's x86 patents and that includes is AMD64 license whereas Intel gets to keep every x86 patents if it gets bought by a larger entity! All of AMD's x86 patents are not transferable compared to Intel. 


Intel owns the original x86 patents and many 32-bit extensions, like MMX, etc, but AMD created and owns x86-64 extension. Intel already filed a lawsuit against AMD when it split research and development from manufacturing and they reached an agreement extending the cross-licensing terms.
BTW, AMD uses RISC cores with an instruction translation layer since the k5, this could be used in tribunal if AMD were taken over by a corporation able to challenge Intel more effectively.
About the money, or lack of, I agree with you, that's why I wish some company take AMD over.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


fatslob-:O said:
I would want Intel to take over the x86 market ... At this point I'd have to agree with ex-AMD engineer, Cliff Maier who's currently working with Apple with his statement of "AMD sucks". AMD has no chance of actually competing in the market if they don't get rid of their awful management and apathetic engineering team. AMD only knows how to keep floundering left and right each time they release a new product. Let Intel have the x86 market completely as I couldn't care less about AMD's processors anymore. In fact I think it would be a good thing that Intel gets all of it's revenue on that market as we can potentially see better processors at a sooner pace. I'm all for it.

(This sounded very fanboy-ish but people have to ask themselves if AMD is really competing ?)

Oooh Looks like someone could use a history lesson.