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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is Socialism Anti-American?

 

Is it?

Yes 85 28.72%
 
NO 183 61.82%
 
Opinion below 8 2.70%
 
other 13 4.39%
 
Total:289

Applying anything with the term 'anti-American' (or any nationality) is used by nationalists to control and seek consent from people and stop them questioning anything that is wrong with the current system.

The right have since McCarthy (probably before) seen socialism as 'anti-American' but to be honest does this term mean anything? Not really. Think about the North American land for example, that has always been there but not until 1776 was it ever a country (something that also could be as easily made up) And even then how can people be patriotic about a place where the natives are essentially foreigners in their own lands. You're all descendants of Europeans pretty much.

Back to the topic but still how can socialism be any more 'anti-American' than what you're corporatist governments have done?

Liberty? What liberty in a country with mass spying, wasteful armies and bureaucracies. No liberty for your people, no liberty for the world since you're superpower status.

Life? How so in a country that still practices the death penalty in over half of it's regions? Not to mention all the wars you've your citizens to fight unnecessarily

And Happiness? That depends on perspective. If you define happiness by ignorance, selfishness, greed, overconsumption (the stuff that makes crony capitalism work as it does) as happiness then i'm on a different planet. The right to happiness is certainly denied to the poor that's for sure. A comfortable life is needed for happiness among other things



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the2real4mafol said:
Applying anything with the term 'anti-American' (or any nationality) is used by nationalists to control and seek consent from people and stop them questioning anything that is wrong with the current system.

The right have since McCarthy (probably before) seen socialism as 'anti-American' but to be honest does this term mean anything? Not really. Think about the North American land for example, that has always been there but not until 1776 was it ever a country (something that also could be as easily made up) And even then how can people be patriotic about a place where the natives are essentially foreigners in their own lands. You're all descendants of Europeans pretty much.

Back to the topic but still how can socialism be any more 'anti-American' than what you're corporatist governments have done?

Liberty? What liberty in a country with mass spying, wasteful armies and bureaucracies. No liberty for your people, no liberty for the world since you're superpower status.

Life? How so in a country that still practices the death penalty in over half of it's regions? Not to mention all the wars you've your citizens to fight unnecessarily

And Happiness? That depends on perspective. If you define happiness by ignorance, selfishness, greed, overconsumption (the stuff that makes crony capitalism work as it does) as happiness then i'm on a different planet. The right to happiness is certainly denied to the poor that's for sure. A comfortable life is needed for happiness among other things

I don't disagree with the bolded. They're just as much problems that must be dealt with as socialism is. They're the side-effects of another form of collectivism, nationalism. 

How to achieve happiness is for the individual to decide, based on his/her slight variation in his/her nature from others.  There is no objective happiness. That is why having the freedom to not have others impose their views of what happiness is, tends to correlate with a happier population. And no, growing up the poorest kid in the class, I was more happy than many of my middle-class peers, having other things than money to derive happiness from. There might be a correlation, based on materialism being one value some individuals choose to analog with happiness, and of course the slightly greater freedom to become successful, but that doesn't mean being poorer than others => being not as happy as others. Now if we speak of destitution, poverty at which basic sustanence is impossible, yes that is highly correlative with unhappiness, but luckily destitution exists at such a microscopic level in the first world, including the United States. Why? Because of high productivity induced by free-markets. I've grown up poor, known quite many other poor people, not a single one of them grew up hungry, without shelter, or even recreational devices. Why? Because the American poor today have just as much as the American middle-class 30 years ago. Why? Because of productivity, technological progression, the reduction of prices through competition, and the free-market. Sorry, people are becoming richer all around, despite the inequality. 



I can see how one would think that...socialism is the opposite of freedom...and everyone knows America invented freedom...

But in reality, no it's not anti-American...just a bad thing in general.



No, but the "patriots" er...elite capitalistic pigs who believe in hoarding 90% of the resources for themselves while bleeding,starving and enslaving the poor will tell you otherwise.



prayformojo said:
No, but the "patriots" er...elite capitalistic pigs who believe in hoarding 90% of the resources for themselves while bleeding,starving and enslaving the poor will tell you otherwise.

It's ironic, because the poor tend to only be bled out, starved, or enslaved in self-proclaimed socailist countries, the most recent instance being Venezuela.  Oh, but that's not REAL socialism, I forgot. 



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prayformojo said:
No, but the "patriots" er...elite capitalistic pigs who believe in hoarding 90% of the resources for themselves while bleeding,starving and enslaving the poor will tell you otherwise.

 

You sound like the type of guy that supports high business taxes, and union rights...then wonders why all the factories are moving to China. 



BraLoD said:
If you start calling USA as America, you can't expect me to give you an answer.
Because I'm American too, as I live in Brazil, and I don't think our continent is only your country, as it really isn't.
Cuba is part of America too and until some time ago was a socialistic country, and you can't call an American country anti-American.
But even if you are only talking about USA, no, people are free do have their own ideals, and USA is supposed to be a free country, so anti-USA would be judge people for what they believe and try to impose what they have to be.

 

As a Canadian I'd like to input my opinion on the matter. Here in Canada it can be rather insulting to refer to us as "Americans" because it implies that Canada is a part of the United States as opposed to it's own seperate country. When we say "America" we're refering to the United States of America. The "Americas" refers to North and South America together, we are not bothered by the Americans taking the title of "America".

I understand that in Spanish and Portuguese, "America" does not refer to the United States but the continent of the Americas, and citizens of the US are estadunidense and estadounidenses but in English that is not the case.



is socialism bad in EU? mericunz need to ask themselves that



Marks said:
prayformojo said:
No, but the "patriots" er...elite capitalistic pigs who believe in hoarding 90% of the resources for themselves while bleeding,starving and enslaving the poor will tell you otherwise.

 

You sound like the type of guy that supports high business taxes, and union rights...then wonders why all the factories are moving to China. 

I don't give two shits about business moving to China. You think you'd have concluded as much considering my views on our current system.

Our country is one built on the old idea that it's "every man for himself." I do not believe that way. I believe we are all in this together as a human race. We should all take care of one another and those who feel otherwise, should be made to treat others with such respect. If our goal is to better the human experience, then we can not keep going on with this insane notion of "every man for himself." We are going to have to make laws to protect the unfit from the fit if the fit continue to abuse the unfit. We are going to have to ensure that hoarders of resources can not hoard them anymore, and provide for those who can not provide for themselves.

Anything less is inhumane imo. We, as people, should all take care of one another. It's the only humane choice.



Turkish said:
is socialism bad in EU? mericunz need to ask themselves that

Well, looking at Greece, Spain, Portugal it can be bad. Welfarism, represented by France, is a burden. The best economies in Europe are those with the least regulations and the freest markets (more free than the U.S even), despite their welfarism (U.S militarism makes up for its lack of welfarism in drain on economy.) The EU sucks out a lot of these economies, though. 

Do remember though, the U.S is still third in standards of living and HDI, many states surpassing the best European states by a significant amount (economically the analogy of U.S state to European state is much more valid than politically.) So for a country of 300 million, the U.S is doing pretty well, but it will decline with the loss of economic freedom that has happened over the last decade. 

In the U.S; however, we observe that the states with the freest markets are also the ones with the most growth. It makes much more sense to look at the local situation than at vastly different countries with vastly different cultures and political systems.