As some other members pointed out, there's indeed objective critisizism to be had on a game. Technical departments, like framerrate, steady fps; things like that. Also some shady practices, like locking ending or portions of the game can also fit into an objective view (all assuming the average consumer isn't okay with lock content).

But anything above there falls into the subjective plane. Not liking something because you can only control a character, because it is linear, because you think you need the codex to fully understand the story, because the characters aren't up your taste and etc, etc, etc, are pure subjective.

Hey you guys don't have to like me, or respect my opinion... and let's face it, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful to you to not react honestly. I think you're both wrong. I think you're blinkered and lack objective reasoning. That's OK though, that's what a debate is about, and sometimes people will clash personality wise. I'm sure you consider me excessively forceful and arrogant.

All the same, thank you for the debate, and I do still respect you as people... but it's nonsense to say we have to respect each others opinions. I can't however stay on a site that gives 3 day bans because you're slightly impolite. It's ridiculous, and it's treating us all like children.

Thanks again. (I'm shocked this account hasn't been banned yet).

Of course, then there's the thing about true objectiveness not being possible as humans are all flawed. But that's an even more deep analysis into it that, ironic enough, it is subjective.

You act like a children. So of course you'll be treated as such.

I would genuinely like to discuss this with you more. Honestly. It's only worth having a debate after all if we disagree... however if we continue this discussion it'll just get heated and I got a 1 day ban for literally telling someone to stop flaming. I didn't even swear. I can't hold down a debate with such pathetic nanny-state restrictions trying to legislate politeness on the members. Debates by their very nature are not polite. Even if in three days when my main account is unblocked I came back, I'd be back mere minutes before I got yet another ridiculous ban.

I'm almost 30 years old, I don't need someone policing my discussions. My feelings aren't so delicate I can't take it if you call me a closed minded arrogant prick, and I'm sure you can handle it if I call you a stupid fanboy who can't admit the truth... I respect you enough to assume you can handle a mean word. If you don't want to debate me, you wouldn't respond. We're both perfectly capable of walking away, we don't need moderators to tell us to behave. Their job is to stop illegal content, child porn, spam etc. not make us be nice to each other. That's the problem.

Still, it was good while it lasted.

can't say much about the others but i would consider resonance of fates story definitly weaker than ff13. however, to me that doesn't really matter because rof (like it as well but for other reasons than ff13) has other qualitys like for example unique, interesting gameplay and world. now, i assume you probably like rof because of other reasons than the story as well because otherwise i can't see why you dislike ff13s so much. my point is: don't you find it a little bit unfair when you criticize  ff13s story so much when rof, another game from the same genre, had an even less developed one? Especially when you were able to enjoy the game overall?

When Lightning does back flips it sucks less than this thread. Not Objective enough for you? hee hee

I enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII. I remember liking the post-game much more than the core game because the battle system really seemed to open up after the final battle....or maybe I was playing the game wrong. FF13 is definitely a polarizing title though, and I've accepted that.

If there is something I can make out of this thread is that Final Fantasy XIII still sucks. I do have to admit that objectively the game can't be that bad because sales where quite decent.

Yes, sales are the best way to determine if a game is "objectively good". After all, if thousands upon thousands of people liked the game then it's pretty likely that the game is doing something right.

FFXIII Trilogy only sucks if you suck.

That is all I've learned from these threads.