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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft Has So Much to Show at E3 They’re Having to “Move Stuff Out” of the Show

walsufnir said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
walsufnir said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

  I know that third party games outsold first party games easily last gen. That is not my issue....the differentiation of brands mostly comes from exclusives and the PS2 era is over and wont return for quite a while where third parties reigned exclusively on one brand because they could support themselves efficiently there. Currently, yes, Microsoft IS useless on a first party front. They just paid developers to make games for them

But where is the difference? Games are exclusive for this system and thus are a differentiation. It is of no use to discuss whether it's paid or first party.

Dead Rising wasnt made by them. They publish it to keep it away from the competition.

Yes, they do. But where is the problem with that? One company buys whole studios, the other one buys single games.

 Killer Instinct wasn't made by them, nor one of their owned companies. In Fact they have to find a new company to make the game since they wont let Rare do it.

And? Read what I wrote above.

Titanfall was not made by them nor was it even funded by them according to Respawn. They just paid for edge of peception.

 And? Read what I wrote above.

Forza is the only launch title they truly made.

"truly made" In the end it's a game exclusive for one system, no matter who made it. Games don't get better or worse if they are exclusive or paid exclusive.

As i've always said it always comes down to a handful of games first party made from Microsoft when it comes to core IP in a generation.

Yeah, we know what you said from numerous threads and posts... Doesn't make your points more valid.

You say this now that they aren't useless when it comes to being self sufficient, but their value is locked purely into online multiplayer. As long as they have the psychological edge on perception its an uphill battle for them against Sony or even Nintendo. Sony and Nintendo can put up on a first party front and keep pumping out games and Microsoft would be lacking if they didn't pay to keep games away from them or get timed exclusivity. When i was studying marketing this would've been one of the tactics I would've used, but I am not into taking advantage of people nor exploiting the human bias. Money is money in the end and the Xbox One is still a good product, but if you understand the psychology of it all and get past it Microsoft is all talk and pay up for everything. If Sony got parity most former paid exclusives or timed exclusives Microsoft would be stuck to fend for themselves (which will happen in the next couple years). If people didn't learn from the PS3 era it will be a harsh lesson this gen when Microsoft doesn't have a one year lead nor the edge on perception. They will keep paying people to get the psychological edge until they reach some sort of parity with Sony in sales and go beyond that.

So many tex is not needed, we know the strategy. But I definitely have a problem with your point painting a picture in the future where you nothing about.  Of course, you can keep your opinion but Xbone isn't out for one year and you are still making it look like a system with first party exclusive draught. I think this is way too much to predict currently, no matter what they did before.

Trust me, I want an Xbox One, but i can accept the fact. Not saying what they are doing isnt smart, becuase it is and I applaud them for staying in the game because of it.  They focus on what sells and they pay to keep it exclusive or keep perception up on their console, but eventually it will dry up just like it did during th 360 era.

Their first party support was less, yes, but not entirely gone and generally I think you are giving too much importance about 1st party exclusives, sales definitely showed otherwise last gen.



LOL...Your point is easily remedied as to little things such as online and where you find it to be valuable or price and power. Anyone could flip-flop between PC/Xbox/Playstation at any time of the day.

This....is what makes first party so special. Yes, It might not be the end all be all, but it sets you apart.

If I was an MS gamer and liked PC games, unless I was desperate for Gears and Halo I would just stick with PC. I'm not really a fan of buying two games for a console. Only reason why I take risk on Sony because they focus on new experiences and they are well above average at doing it, really. I get my multiplat experience and my exclusives and personally to me thats all that matters. I have no argument about multiplats. We all no when it comes to those its really a no holds barred game.


You bring in PC gaming as if it was an alternative for the gaming masses when it is clearly not. I intentionally don't play games on PC like million others. And Sony focusses on new experiences? Hmm, Second Son and Killzone on PS4 showed otherwise, didn't they?

But I think we will never agree in our points so we can finish the discussion here.

To me at least choosing a console is a vector of parameters and not just first party exclusives with subjective quality.

I never singled out PC gaming, but PC, PS4 and XBox One are all multiplat alternatives and anyone can get those games there with the best availability possible. Anyone can easily change between all three for one reason or the other. As I said its a no holds barred. First and second party separate them. I agree with the value of multiplat gaming, but you don't need to understand. 



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endimion said:
Well yeah but an exclusive is an exclusive whether it is 1st 2nd or 3rd party is irrelevant from a customer point of view... If they can't get it somewhere else it is just the same as a 1st party exclusive... It just matters from a business strategy point of view...

I couldn't care less if TF KI GoW DR is made by first second or third party... Fact is if you want to play it on console they are only on XBox and in general on MS platforms....

I don't care whether exclusivity is first party ultimately as long as it stays exclusive. I am just saying first party staples the fact that their is slim to no chance that it will be made on another platform and sets a brand apart. Where Microsoft is concerned, nearly everything is up for grabs that they call "exclusive". 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
walsufnir said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Let me guess..... They paid more developers to go exclusive? I haven't seen a hot internally made new IP from them in years.


Where is the difference? Do you care if a game is paid for exclusive? Buying studios also locks out other platforms...

From a gamer's view I want to play games. Why should I bother how a game comes to my system?


This isn't the PC realm where all the devs are third party. First party is a testament to the abilities of the company themselves. If third parties are doing all the work for you when the exclusivity dries up you're useless. 

Third parties are doing the work for MS and Sony for years... Like I said some countless time before, it is schocking to see that sony a Japanese company has no first party game for Japan and if I am correct their is not a game announced for the market and no releasedate ofcourse;...You can correct me if I am wrong but the PS4 sales at this moment are made by the third party games...   



S.T.A.G.E. said:

Let me guess..... They paid more developers to go exclusive? I haven't seen a hot internally made new IP from them in years.


All you do is repeat the same stuff over and over again in every thread, going on and on about first parties.  Gets a little tiring to be honest.  YOu dont have to like MSFT or what they do, people dont really care.  Saying it one time would have been enough rather than saying the same thing for months. 




       

GamechaserBE said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
walsufnir said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Let me guess..... They paid more developers to go exclusive? I haven't seen a hot internally made new IP from them in years.


Where is the difference? Do you care if a game is paid for exclusive? Buying studios also locks out other platforms...

From a gamer's view I want to play games. Why should I bother how a game comes to my system?


This isn't the PC realm where all the devs are third party. First party is a testament to the abilities of the company themselves. If third parties are doing all the work for you when the exclusivity dries up you're useless. 

Third parties are doing the work for MS and Sony for years... Like I said some countless time before, it is schocking to see that sony a Japanese company has no first party game for Japan and if I am correct their is not a game announced for the market and no releasedate ofcourse;...You can correct me if I am wrong but the PS4 sales at this moment are made by the third party games...   


Its obvious at this point that Sony is completely under the spell of western sales and consumerism. The Japanese are becoming less predictable of a market as to what they like and the sales are nowhere near as large. Japanese RPG's are losing popularity quickly and right now its kind of late for Sony to create a "Final Fantasy". It would be great if they brought back Legend of Dragoon or Dark Cloud, but those games in this day and age wouldn't sell as well as they should based on their overall quality. 

Third party will always make the most money on Microsoft and Sony platforms unless Microsoft and Sony figure out a formula to make games are valued higher than the feverishly anticipated third party. No matter what third parties will swallow you up, but if you can live side-by-side with them its a great thing. If you can make great first party like what Sony is doing thats a win-win when it comes to first, second and third party and their sales are high right now which means even more games will come in the future. 

I'm just happy MS brought back Killer Instinct and bought Gears from Epic. They are showing where they creatively present.....and its realizing other peoples talent. Hopefully Sony's former partner Insomniac also makes a great game for them, because they were oh so happy to scoop them up as well for an exclusive. When I pick up my Xbox One, I cant wait for that either.

You're right though, on both platforms third parties are king, but its always good to have a balance. You don't want to be in Nintendos position having great first party and horrible third party or Microsoft where the first party isn't particularly great but third party is great. With Sony its basically right in the middle where it belongs. It doesn't need to be anyones favorite, but they have been in the sweet spot for nearly twenty years now. If you ask me, the only genre Sony is weak at is FPS and Killzone isn't exactly a bad game, but it isn't MLG level either.



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JayWood2010 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Let me guess..... They paid more developers to go exclusive? I haven't seen a hot internally made new IP from them in years.


All you do is repeat the same stuff over and over again in every thread, going on and on about first parties.  Gets a little tiring to be honest.  YOu dont have to like MSFT or what they do, people dont really care.  Saying it one time would have been enough rather than saying the same thing for months. 


I love you, but this is the worst marriage ever and I want a divorce.



walsufnir said:


You bring in PC gaming as if it was an alternative for the gaming masses when it is clearly not. I intentionally don't play games on PC like million others. And Sony focusses on new experiences? Hmm, Second Son and Killzone on PS4 showed otherwise, didn't they?

But I think we will never agree in our points so we can finish the discussion here.

To me at least choosing a console is a vector of parameters and not just first party exclusives with subjective quality.


PC gaming is an alternative? It's a bigger gaming platform than the Xbox One, Playstation 4, WiiU, Nintendo 3DS, Playstation Vita... Combined currently.
Plus, I'm not aware of any console game with over 100 million users... Which solidifies how mainstream it is in some nations. (Especially in South Korea!)




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

S.T.A.G.E. said:
JayWood2010 said:


I love you, but this is the worst marriage ever and I want a divorce.


Dont really find you funny either.  Whatever though, better go preach some more about MSFT's first parties and all their evil practices......




       

JayWood2010 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
JayWood2010 said:


I love you, but this is the worst marriage ever and I want a divorce.


Dont really find you funny either.  Whatever though, better go preach some more about MSFT's first parties and all their evil practices......

Preaching? This is a forum, buddy. We're all "preaching" to some degree. You're a strong personality and when you clash with another strong personality you speak up, thats pretty much it. Even worse so if you disagree. Psychologically speaking, I understand your deal with me...which really and truly is up to you completely to ignore. I don't ignore you because I don't find opposing opinions annoying, I just listen to yours and then state mine. Essentially what you've proven is that I have a higher tolerance for opposition of thought than you do. Thank you, good night.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
GamechaserBE said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
walsufnir said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Let me guess..... They paid more developers to go exclusive? I haven't seen a hot internally made new IP from them in years.


Where is the difference? Do you care if a game is paid for exclusive? Buying studios also locks out other platforms...

From a gamer's view I want to play games. Why should I bother how a game comes to my system?


This isn't the PC realm where all the devs are third party. First party is a testament to the abilities of the company themselves. If third parties are doing all the work for you when the exclusivity dries up you're useless. 

Third parties are doing the work for MS and Sony for years... Like I said some countless time before, it is schocking to see that sony a Japanese company has no first party game for Japan and if I am correct their is not a game announced for the market and no releasedate ofcourse;...You can correct me if I am wrong but the PS4 sales at this moment are made by the third party games...   


Its obvious at this point that Sony is completely under the spell of western sales and consumerism. The Japanese are becoming less predictable of a market as to what they like and the sales are nowhere near as large. Japanese RPG's are losing popularity quickly and right now its kind of late for Sony to create a "Final Fantasy". It would be great if they brought back Legend of Dragoon or Dark Cloud, but those games in this day and age wouldn't sell as well as they should based on their overall quality. 

Third party will always make the most money on Microsoft and Sony platforms unless Microsoft and Sony figure out a formula to make games are valued higher than the feverishly anticipated third party. No matter what third parties will swallow you up, but if you can live side-by-side with them its a great thing. If you can make great first party like what Sony is doing thats a win-win when it comes to first, second and third party and their sales are high right now which means even more games will come in the future. 

I'm just happy MS brought back Killer Instinct and bought Gears from Epic. They are showing where they creatively present.....and its realizing other peoples talent. Hopefully Sony's former partner Insomniac also makes a great game for them, because they were oh so happy to scoop them up as well for an exclusive. When I pick up my Xbox One, I cant wait for that either.

You're right though, on both platforms third parties are king, but its always good to have a balance. You don't want to be in Nintendos position having great first party and horrible third party or Microsoft where the first party isn't particularly great but third party is great. With Sony its basically right in the middle where it belongs. It doesn't need to be anyones favorite, but they have been in the sweet spot for nearly twenty years now. If you ask me, the only genre Sony is weak at is FPS and Killzone isn't exactly a bad game, but it isn't MLG level either.

Making a game for the Japanese market like Ape escape/Legend of Dragoon/Gran Turismo/ the Last Guardian will not only benefit the Japanese market though, in fact I believe most Japanese games sell better outside of Japan then in Japan.

About Sony's first party..I think most PS3 owners did not care about first party that much.. you can find a lot of people like for example Soriku who cares a lot about the Tales games and the other JRPG's who are all third party (exclusives)...  It is even better to understand when you see a discussion about PS one games.  People go crazy how much fun they had with Tekken 3/resident evil/Final fantasy/Tomb Raider but were all third party (exclusives) but nobody care if tehy were first party or third party though....And were even Spyro and Crash not second party ?  if sony invest or moneyhat the next three Crash games who will care if they are first party/third party games and who really care if sony moneyhatted or not?  In the end of the day it is rather fanboy bullshit for me;.