Can we please stop this war? the west ukraine lost badly, and no weapon aid can help em winning.
they lost because they didnt do their homework, reading the basic stuff of doing war.

ust splitt the ukraine and go on, the east dont want to break away from russia because they are ethnic russian and allways were close to russia, thats why they allway voted pro russian...

Probably best to split country east and west.

You are joking or another paid Kremlin troll (and yes, it is a known fact that Putin is paying for people to spam websites with pro Russian nonesne).

Why would Ukaraine shoot down a plane? They wanted to cripple their currency and economy even more by drawing  attention to themselves? Because that makes more sense then some idiot rebels not knowing how to use an AA system properly.  Oh, and the investigation by Denmark has be public so what coverup? Plus why would Boeing investigate it? Does Ford investigate car crashes?

Never mind though. I'm sure Putin will make sure everyone who is against him will either be annexed, attacked by "rebels", or shot on a bridge.

He is not, I am :D Oh, Jesus, and I remember times when the "Putin's trolls" meme first appeared abroad somewhere around 2008. I'm not sure but it was smth yellowish and British, Daily Mail probably? What take you so long, conspiracy nut? Though as someone who was supposed to be paid (even though fired shortly after) for writing crap in Interent in 2011-12 just before presedential elections I could suggest that if paid anti-Putin trolls like me have existed, paid pro-Putin trolls might actually exists as well.

So what about that crash? Almost a year has passed, where're the results? Don't you think if the media, that blamed Putin personally so vigorously, wouldn't take opportunity to blame him again if there was a slightest chance to do so? As expected results are virtually nothing.

I beleive I've shared quite a few words on the availability and operatiblity of the AA systems rebels have at the time. Nothing points to the fact they had a techincal ability to shot it down.

As for the reasons, I guess they are the same as with any other false flag attack. I've seen quite a lot of similar provocations throughtout that war with civilians deathtolls. Not every one of them has reached the western media (and quite a lot could be said solely on the grounds if the given event even made it to the headlines). Not every one of them I've studied in details to speak for sure, except one for which I've collected all information that was freely available and put eveyrthing on the location's map -- and have come to conclusion that shelling of Mariuopol was either a mistake or a purposeful provocation by the Ukrainian Forces or that neo-Nazi Azov "batalion" (here're these junkies) -- the official number of victims is currently at 31. Given this, multiple other similar events, undoubtful faking of "evidences" like infamouse audiotape, I somehow readily believe that one way or antoher some of current Ukrainian authorities has laid her hand on this. Of course they would never do this from approval or even help from the Washnigton.

Paid Putin trolls have been confirmed by many people by this point. Germany did a large report on it.

As for the crash, there has been a report. I think you just missed it.... It concluded that the plane went down due to explosive decompression due to shrapnel - which is how a BUK works.

They had downed transport planes at that hieght - so how could they not drop a passenger plane?

There is no reason the Ukr. would shoot down a plane, hence why you don't give one besides "cause".

If you ask me, idiots in the interwebz outnumber alleged paid Putin trolls by a few orders of magnitude, so won't even bother with the report you're actually referring to here. I understand that being torn out of comfortable media-matrix might be painfull sometimes, but that's not a reason to call person a troll. In the past days of this forum, that was banabale offence btw. On a side note, a newly formed Ukrainian Ministry of Propaganda (Informationl Policy) pretty much officially hires "information troops", but that doesn't make me think every internet dweller I disagree with on given subject is a troll who works for MIP.

Pretty sure I didn't, if you're referring to a preliminary report it has been worded rather vague, as shrapnel could be anything, AAM or SAM -- in any case Ukrainian Buks have been active at the time the plane was downed as reported by ELINT.

Not at that altitude.

Sifting through tin hats and paid trolls is hard, but actual reports where they track the IPs do confirm that it is buisnesses spamming news websites across Europe.

Also Russia is known to be terrible for propoganda, but it is amazing how quickly people forget these things.  I think a lot of people are scared of realising that there is a large, somewhat powerful and unstable country about and instead come up with crazy excuses which helps them to sleep better.

Actually certain missiles work on causing a blast of shrapnel rather than pressure or an explosion. The wreck had the classic damage of a BUK and the blackbox confirmed this as much as it could.

A BUK can reach out to heigher alttitudes and does not have a transponder reciever....so would be, again, utterly plausible to do something like this. And before anyone says "Ukr jets!", MH17 and traffic control would have logged the movements of unidentifed planes, diverted planes etc. Occam's razer/common sense all says it is a rebel missile which was gifted from the Russians, and that is before you look at the mountain of evidence pointing to the rebels afterwards.

The mythology about Russia at your place is least of my concerns. I understand you consider yourself an "independent thinker", but quite a big chunk of completely brain-washed people think of themselves a bit too much then they actually deserve.

Like what? R-60 AAM warhead is equipped with typical HE continuous rods, aka a shrapnel.

Do we have blacbox recordings released to the public? No. So what has been confirmed so far? Nothing. Even that'd be SAM, I repeat Ukrainians are the only ones who had Buks in there and they were active at the time plane was downed.

Why would SAM have a transponder receiver? O_o The only confirmed SAM systems that rebels had at their disposal at the time were MANPADs or MTLB-based Strela-10, which if effecitvely a set of MANPADs with radar. They have the same ceiling of about 4km. The only Buk they had is captured Ukrainian launch pad, which is not nearly enough to successfully downing anything even if it was operational and missile was operational too, besides a launch pad you'd need a targeting radar and a command post.

All recordings of the air traffic control in the airport of Borispol, that has been tracking MH17 at the time, were confiscated by SBU at the day of the crash:

"Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

Since then nobody ever heard about them. But military ELINT units have recorded the presence of military jet there.

Is there anything else I could shed a light on to help you remember all circumstances of the MH17 crash? I'm asking because I'm growing tired of the discussion, as Sharu have said it -- nobody cares by now and more importantly nobody remembers what was a year ago.

The funniest thing here is that one year ago USA and EU supported a riot which led to putting down president of Ukraine. Which was THE main reason of all the problems in the country now. But They behave like they have nothing to do with it. Like a small child who've broken mother's vase and saying - its not me, its a boogeyman from the closet!

A shrapnel? Seriously?

So you want black box recordings of every disaster released? Why?? Oh, but you believe the govt of one of the most corrupt and propoganda heavy nations. Ok, go nuts.

Why would the Ukarianes have BUKs stationed? Because the rebels were using planes? Oh wait..*rollseyes*

You don't know what a transponder is so don't debate about it.

Of course they would take the recordings. They would want to see if the pilots said anything about missiles being seen. Also, what about radar contacts? As I said - Ukr don't have stealth planes so radar would have picked them up.