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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U's eDRAM stronger than given credit?

snowdog said:
I'd say it's reasonable to see 720p at 60fps with v-synch enabled considering that's what we've seen in the majority of first party titles so far.

You're all going around in circles, people. Just wait until Project CARS is released.


Sure, confirmed 720p30 btw



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

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Don't have any problems with 720p 30fps as long as it looks good and doesn't have a shedload of screen tearing. You're obviously going to see a difference in IQ between the Wii U and the other two SKUs due to the difference in horsepower between them...but it speaks volumes that the PS3 and 360 SKUs were canned due to them not being powerful enough to do the game justice and that the Wii U SKU is on its way.

I've said it before but there are going to be a fair few people surprised (some pleasantly, some not so pleasantly lol) at how it's going to look.

Nintendo have designed the Wii U to be a 720p machine, the PS4 has been designed to be a 1080p machine and the Xbox One is a bit of an oddball being somewhere in between, albeit closer to the PS4 than the Wii U.



hated_individual said:
Pemalite...

Since Wii Us CPU and GPU can access each other directly then either CPU or GPU could process needed data first and then shuffle it back and forth to each as long as possible/needed by the game, right? If possible to forward data from system RAM trought each after processing it...

eDRAM in Wii U GPU is basically L3 Cache to CPU in a way.


There are limitations, the eDRAM isn't exactly plentifull to hold everything.
If you still don't have the data needed for processing in the eDRAM, you still have to travel all the way down to system memory, that's the worse case scenario and it *will* happen on the odd occassion.

But yes, it can, the eDRAM can be treated like an L3 cache.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SubiyaCryolite said:
curl-6 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
DevilRising said:

People that think showing pics of a game that has a dark/gritty/"realistic" art style vs. pics of a game with a more simplistic/colorful/cartoon art style is somehow "proof" of one piece of hardware being better than another, always have and always will be laughable. As in funny as hell.

You may have missed this. The new trend from your camp is Nintendo games (cartoony) don't push Nintendo hardware. I disagree based on Galaxy(Wii) and Twilight Princess (GC) but hey.

But grass in super mario is different to grass in xenoblade which in turn is different to grass in Crysis 1. Same goes for dust, fire and water. There is some truth to those statements.

All grass is equal but some grass is more equal than others. You think this has no effect on rendering demand?

"Your camp"? Would you listen to yourself?

For Pete's sake stop taking this so seriously and being such a passive aggressive fountain of negativity.

 

No, its a new trend, such assertions have been brushed aside numerous times before. DevilRising did the exact same thing. A lot of fans are disagreeing with you in that thread you created.

I remember you quoting every "non anymous" 2D game creator when the WiiU secret developer article first came out as a counter to his largely negative opinions. You were still firmly in lazy dev land at that point. Now you agree with him.

You argue that Trine 2 is pushing the system hardest yet its enhancements aren't a generational gap above the 360 version if the same game.

You argue that all of Nintys 60fps titles aren't pushing the system. So are you basically saying the systems best looking games will all be 720p30 and all that 1080p secret sauce theories are a Pipedream?

Basically 720p30 like last gens best games. Yet you get offended when anyone states that the machines power is barely a step up from last gen?

Where do you stand on the U? No flip flopping. In black and white. Plain and simple. Its reasonable to expect 1080p60/30 from a PS4. Reasonable to expect 900p30/60 from a X1. What is reasonable for a U.

You're missing the point. The fact that you see this as "camps" and treat it like some kind of high school clique war shows you're taking all this far too seriously, and you're making the forums a less pleasant place with your hostility. And you're projecting; it's you who feels the need to try to turn this in to some kind of passive aggressive mud flinging session at every opportunity.

The secret dev article cannot be considered gospel behind the veil of anonymity, but some of what is said tallies with what named developers have stated. So while it is not as reliable a source as a named dev, some of its claims seem to be believable, even if others are unsubstantiated. 

Trine 2 is the best technical example so far, (It's confirmed to be beyond PS3/360's capabilities) but it is not pushing the system's limits, because it's a launch title not made from the ground up. No game made for Wii U so far is pushing its limits, because there are no graphically ambitious ones built from the ground up yet.

Think about it; how many consoles were maxed out in their first 16 months?

If you'd read my posts you'd know I have NEVER claimed that Wii U will become 1080p standard. I believe as a I always have; that  (A) Wii U's larger RAM and more modern GPU will allow it to produce games with improved textures and polish over PS3/360, similar to, say, the Gamecube/Xbox's advantage over PS2, and (B) that Wii U's graphics will improve with time, just like any console, so what we've seen so far is not its full power.

And the idea that generations are defined by huge graphical leaps died a decade ago.



fleischr said:
I love how this thread re emerges every week.


So do an awful lot of other slight variances on otherwise horribly regurgitated and unoriginal themes. It's nothing new.



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SubiyaCryolite said:

You may have missed this. The new trend from your camp is Nintendo games (cartoony) don't push Nintendo hardware. I disagree based on Galaxy(Wii) and Twilight Princess (GC) but hey.

But grass in super mario is different to grass in xenoblade which in turn is different to grass in Crysis 1. Same goes for dust, fire and water. There is some truth to those statements.

All grass is equal but some grass is more equal than others. You think this has no effect on rendering demand?



I am not part of any "camp", unless the "camp" you're referring to is that graphics are not the be-all, end-all of gaming.

However, when it COMES to discussing graphics, as I originally stated, it's rather humorous (IE also rather silly as fuck), to see people compare pics of games with "realistic" visuals with games that have "cartoon" visuals, and try to pass that off as proof that their system is better, or whatever other childish fan*** nonsense you wish to imagine. It simply is not always relevant, or true. There are many "cartoon" styled games that I guarantee push their given system's hardware harder than "realistic" looking games on the same system. Art style is irrelevant. It's what actually goes into MAKING those graphics, that taxes a console.



DevilRising said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
 

You may have missed this. The new trend from your camp is Nintendo games (cartoony) don't push Nintendo hardware. I disagree based on Galaxy(Wii) and Twilight Princess (GC) but hey.

But grass in super mario is different to grass in xenoblade which in turn is different to grass in Crysis 1. Same goes for dust, fire and water. There is some truth to those statements.

All grass is equal but some grass is more equal than others. You think this has no effect on rendering demand?

 



I am not part of any "camp", unless the "camp" you're referring to is that graphics are not the be-all, end-all of gaming.

However, when it COMES to discussing graphics, as I originally stated, it's rather humorous (IE also rather silly as fuck), to see people compare pics of games with "realistic" visuals with games that have "cartoon" visuals, and try to pass that off as proof that their system is better, or whatever other childish fan*** nonsense you wish to imagine. It simply is not always relevant, or true. There are many "cartoon" styled games that I guarantee push their given system's hardware harder than "realistic" looking games on the same system. Art style is irrelevant. It's what actually goes into MAKING those graphics, that taxes a console.

Not really, these days everybody is trying to make realisitc graphics look better, realisitc graphics are much more technically demanding then cartoony games, espcially since nobody is really trying tu push that envelope anymore, realistic games have way more detailed characters and need good enemy ai, while cartoony games don't, case in point mario galaxy 1 and 2, and zelda wind waker, are still among the best looking cartoony when running dolphin emulator, while realistic games look like crap from that hardware era because they have advanced so much.



dekatree said:
DevilRising said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
 

You may have missed this. The new trend from your camp is Nintendo games (cartoony) don't push Nintendo hardware. I disagree based on Galaxy(Wii) and Twilight Princess (GC) but hey.

But grass in super mario is different to grass in xenoblade which in turn is different to grass in Crysis 1. Same goes for dust, fire and water. There is some truth to those statements.

All grass is equal but some grass is more equal than others. You think this has no effect on rendering demand?

 



I am not part of any "camp", unless the "camp" you're referring to is that graphics are not the be-all, end-all of gaming.

However, when it COMES to discussing graphics, as I originally stated, it's rather humorous (IE also rather silly as fuck), to see people compare pics of games with "realistic" visuals with games that have "cartoon" visuals, and try to pass that off as proof that their system is better, or whatever other childish fan*** nonsense you wish to imagine. It simply is not always relevant, or true. There are many "cartoon" styled games that I guarantee push their given system's hardware harder than "realistic" looking games on the same system. Art style is irrelevant. It's what actually goes into MAKING those graphics, that taxes a console.

Not really, these days everybody is trying to make realisitc graphics look better, realisitc graphics are much more technically demanding then cartoony games, espcially since nobody is really trying tu push that envelope anymore, realistic games have way more detailed characters and need good enemy ai, while cartoony games don't, case in point mario galaxy 1 and 2, and zelda wind waker, are still among the best looking cartoony when running dolphin emulator, while realistic games look like crap from that hardware era because they have advanced so much.

nonsense. you know cel-shading and such are quite tasking in terms of raw power right?

 

thats precisely why everything else has to be toned down a lil bit. but just a bit. not a massive difference over standard drawn graphics



supernihilist said:
dekatree said:
DevilRising said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
 

You may have missed this. The new trend from your camp is Nintendo games (cartoony) don't push Nintendo hardware. I disagree based on Galaxy(Wii) and Twilight Princess (GC) but hey.

But grass in super mario is different to grass in xenoblade which in turn is different to grass in Crysis 1. Same goes for dust, fire and water. There is some truth to those statements.

All grass is equal but some grass is more equal than others. You think this has no effect on rendering demand?

 



I am not part of any "camp", unless the "camp" you're referring to is that graphics are not the be-all, end-all of gaming.

However, when it COMES to discussing graphics, as I originally stated, it's rather humorous (IE also rather silly as fuck), to see people compare pics of games with "realistic" visuals with games that have "cartoon" visuals, and try to pass that off as proof that their system is better, or whatever other childish fan*** nonsense you wish to imagine. It simply is not always relevant, or true. There are many "cartoon" styled games that I guarantee push their given system's hardware harder than "realistic" looking games on the same system. Art style is irrelevant. It's what actually goes into MAKING those graphics, that taxes a console.

Not really, these days everybody is trying to make realisitc graphics look better, realisitc graphics are much more technically demanding then cartoony games, espcially since nobody is really trying tu push that envelope anymore, realistic games have way more detailed characters and need good enemy ai, while cartoony games don't, case in point mario galaxy 1 and 2, and zelda wind waker, are still among the best looking cartoony when running dolphin emulator, while realistic games look like crap from that hardware era because they have advanced so much.

nonsense. you know cel-shading and such are quite tasking in terms of raw power right?

 

thats precisely why everything else has to be toned down a lil bit. but just a bit. not a massive difference over standard drawn graphics

what does that have to with anything? cell shading games simply don't have the level of detail realistic games have. what are the most graphically demanding games these days. do you see any cartoony/cell shading games that are pushing the pc to its limits, they don't exist, zelda wind waker was made for hardware thats over 12 years old and still one of the best looking cartoony games out there, can you say the samething for a realitic looking game. cartoony games are more about art style then pushing the hardware.



dekatree said:

what does that have to with anything? cell shading games simply don't have the level of detail realistic games, what are the most graphically demanding games these days, do you see any cartoony/cell shading games are are pushing the pc to its limits, they don't exist, zelda wind waker was made for hardware thats over 12 years old and still one of the best looking cartoony games out there, can you say the samething for a realitic looking game.

Jett Rocket is cartoony, yet it arguably makes the best use of the Wii GPU of any game on the system, with tons of (for the hardware) advanced effects while running at 60fps.