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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Are XBONE graphics closer to Wii U than PS4?

JoeTheBro said:
fleischr said:
Some framerate issue have more to deal with platform optimization. You can find PC gamers with fairly powerful rigs encountering the same issues.

It's pretty obvious which platforms you're going to polish for.

Gotta wonder too about performance difference b/w WiiU dev kits and the retail SKUs. The WiiU has some extra stuff running in the background the dev kit probably doesn't.

Dev kits are better than retail kits in order to make development simpler, but the differences are clearly identified. You're never going to have a case of a competent dev saying "well it ran fine on my system" if consumers have performance issues.

The performance issues of ports to WiiU I consider pretty overblown to begin with. Generally the human eye can truly only process 30 FPS . 60 fps just gives you a split-second advantage in gameplay -- but in general, the differences to the naked eye are hardly apparent. To my original point, it's more about polish to a particular platform than the platform itself.



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

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Hahaha. No. The gap is far bigger between those two.



starworld said:
Pemalite said:
dsp333 said:

As weak as it is (not that the PS4 isn't weak as well), no, not even close. The One is still over 4 times the power of the Wii U by its weakest measure.

The Wii U is more in line with the 360 and PS3 than it is the One and the PS4 as pathetic as that is. In fact, by some measures like ram bandwidth and CPU before GPU assistance, the Wii U is actually WEAKER than those machines approaching 8 and 9 years old.


No way. The WiiU's GPU is superior to that of the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.
The CPU is also superior being an Out-of-Order design.

You're looking at probably 2x the maximum performance of the PS3.
However it's not in the same league as the Next-gen twins.


There is a massive performance disparity between the 7th gen and 8th gen, thanks to the continiously advancing PC technology found in all systems. (And because that generation dragged for so damn long the difference is more pronounced.)

dude the wiiu gpu specs are confirmed at 176 gflops http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=136756, a year later its still running games like AC4 and COD, 5-15fps behind 360/ps3.




I'll get to the more technical replies later... To much for the grey matter to handle first thing in the morning without coffee!



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

-snip-

I'll be covering for you once you get back.



starworld said:
Pemalite said:
dsp333 said:

As weak as it is (not that the PS4 isn't weak as well), no, not even close. The One is still over 4 times the power of the Wii U by its weakest measure.

The Wii U is more in line with the 360 and PS3 than it is the One and the PS4 as pathetic as that is. In fact, by some measures like ram bandwidth and CPU before GPU assistance, the Wii U is actually WEAKER than those machines approaching 8 and 9 years old.


No way. The WiiU's GPU is superior to that of the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.
The CPU is also superior being an Out-of-Order design.

You're looking at probably 2x the maximum performance of the PS3.
However it's not in the same league as the Next-gen twins.


There is a massive performance disparity between the 7th gen and 8th gen, thanks to the continiously advancing PC technology found in all systems. (And because that generation dragged for so damn long the difference is more pronounced.)

dude the wiiu gpu specs are confirmed at 176 gflops http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=136756, a year later its still running games like AC4 and COD, 5-15fps behind 360/ps3.

That doesn't make it any less capable. Measuring performance requires more than looking at raw floating point power ...



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starworld said:
supernihilist said:
starworld said:
JoeTheBro said:
starworld said:
JoeTheBro said:


Specs are great evidence but they don't tell us the full story. The real world result of the specs is what really matter. Also which non launch multiplats run much worse on Wii U? Most are almost on par if not better.

AC4 runs 5-15 fps behind current gen and looks the same, same for batman, ninaj gaiden 3 and COD ghosts, resident evil  revelations and splinter cell also called worse versions by DF, the only game that is superior NFSWU. specs also do tell the full story, just look at ryse that looks a generion better then anything on wiiu.


Except for AC4 the games you listed are almost on par, not much worse like you said.

go read the digitial foundry its says both batman orgins and cod ghosts run so bad on wiiu thats there almost no fun, compared to the 360/ps3 versions, samething for ninja gaiden 3, that only games that are close are RE and splintercell, try doing some research before making such a silly thread.

talking about hyperbole...

i think that has more to do with unpolished product than with HW power. do i have to remind you how most multiplats look and run worst on PS3 compared to 360? Wasnt PS3 moar powerful?

Bayonetta perhaps? it has do with hard power

it has everything to do with hardware power. ps3 was not more powerful, they both had there strenghts and weak points, but ps3 was a pain to develope for, wiiu doesnt have the same problem, if ports are running worse then you know that console is weaker not powerful enough for it to matter and were not talking about one port, were talking about most.

ok, so you cherry pick at convenience which systems run games worst because of lack of power rather than lack of development, i see...



Turkish said:
Not sure. gpu+cpu:

PS4: ~1.95/2TFlop (32ROPs, 1152 stream processors,
Xbone: 1.4TFlop (only 16 ROPs on gpu so 720p will be very common, 768 stream processors)
WiiU: estimates range from 300 to 600TFlop (8Rops, 320 stream processors)

There are as many ROPs and stream processors on the PS4 vs Xbone gap as the Xbone vs WiiU gap. The gap between PS4 and Xbone is ~500Gflop, Wii vs Xbone can be 800Gflop at minimum


wii u estimates start at 176 gflops and go up to 352 gflops, however the fact is the wii u gpu likely has a wii gpu integrated into it and this gpu may run at higher speeds in wii u mode to generate the gamepad screen when independent of the main screen. At best it probably adds 30 gflops performance to the main gflops performance of the wii u. The performance level we have seen from wii u makes it highly likely the performance is at the lower level 176gflops. However architecture differences means this will perform probably 30% plus minimum over the older architecture of the 360 gpu. Roughly speaking the wii u gpu is about the same performance level as 360/PS3 but has an enhanced feature set and has 32MB of ultra fast embedded memory. So its is bottleneck free almost. However still it performs below 360 and PS3 on most ocassions due to a slow CPU and low main memory bandwidth.

LIkely wii u architecture is something like a mobile Radion 6400M. Mobility architecture is extremely likely due to less heat issues even when fabricated at a low cost 40nm process as used in the wii u.

For the wii u to take so little power and produce so little heat that only needs a small fan it has to be a fairly low performance gpu. Not only that but you have to factor in the low bandwidth memory chips used which are less than 360 and PS3. It would be pointless fitting a higher performance gpu with such limited memory bandwidth. Lets not forget in the wii u that memory bandwidth has to be shared by both gpu and cpu. The 32MB of embedded memory certainly helps but its clear there would be huge restrictions on a more powerful gpu.

 

  • Engine clock speed: 480-800 MHz (wii u gpu is at about 550mhz so 176 gflops)
  • Processing power (single precision): 153-256 GigaFLOPS
  • Polygon throughput: 120-200M polygons/sec
  • Data fetch rate (32-bit): 15.36-25.6 billion fetches/sec
  • Texel fill rate (bilinear filtered): 3.84-6.4 Gigatexels/sec
  • Pixel fill rate: 1.92-3.2 Gigapixels/sec
  • Anti-aliased pixel fill rate: 7.68-12.8 Gigasamples/sec
  • Memory clock speed: 800-900 MHz GDDR5 or DDR3
  • Memory data rate: 3.2 Gbps GDDR5 or 1.6-1.8 Gbps DDR3
  • Memory bandwidth: 25.6 GB/sec (GDDR5) or 12.8-14.4 GB/sec (DDR3)

12.8GB/s is the DDR3 memory speed fitted to the wii u

  • TeraScale 2 Unified Processing Architecture
    • 160 Stream Processing Units
    • 8 Texture Units
    • 16 Z/Stencil ROP Units
    • 4 Color ROP Units
  • GDDR5/DDR3 memory interface
  • PCI Express 2.1 x16 bus interface
  • DirectX® 11 Evolved technology
    • DirectX® 11 support
      • Shader Model 5.0
      • DirectCompute 11
      • Programmable hardware tessellation unit
      • Accelerated multi-threading
      • HDR texture compression
      • Order-independent transparency
    • OpenGL 4.1 support
    • Image quality enhancement technology
      • Up to 12x multi-sample and super-sample anti-aliasing modes
      • Adaptive anti-aliasing
      • Morphological anti-aliasing (MLAA)
      • 16x angle independent anisotropic texture filtering
      • 128-bit floating point HDR rendering
  • AMD Eyefinity multi-display technology5
    • Support for up to 4 simultaneous displays
      • Independent resolutions, refresh rates, color controls, and video overlays
    • Display grouping
      • Combine multiple displays to behave like a single large display
  • AMD App Acceleration2
    • OpenCL™ 1.1 support6
    • DirectCompute 11
    • Accelerated video encoding, transcoding, and upscaling7,8,9
    • UVD 3 dedicated video playback accelerator
      • MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
      • VC-1
      • MPEG-2 (SD & HD)
      • Multi-View Codec (MVC)3
      • MPEG-4 part 2 (DivX®, Xvid)
      • Adobe® Flash®10
    • Enhanced video quality features
      • Advanced post-processing and scaling9
      • Dynamic contrast enhancement and color correction
      • Brighter whites processing (blue stretch)
      • Independent video gamma control
      • Dynamic video range control
    • Dual-stream 1080p playback support11
    • DXVA 1.0 & 2.0 support
  • AMD HD3D technology1
    • Stereoscopic 3D display/glasses support
    • Blu-ray 3D support3
    • Stereoscopic 3D gaming support
    • 3rd party Stereoscopic 3D middleware software support


I think that all 3 are pretty even this generation.



No the Xbox Ones graphics are closer to PS4 but I will say that without any doubt in my mind the gap between Wii U and PS4/Xbox One is smaller then the gap between Wii and PS3/360.



bonzobanana said:
Turkish said:
Not sure. gpu+cpu:

PS4: ~1.95/2TFlop (32ROPs, 1152 stream processors,
Xbone: 1.4TFlop (only 16 ROPs on gpu so 720p will be very common, 768 stream processors)
WiiU: estimates range from 300 to 600TFlop (8Rops, 320 stream processors)

There are as many ROPs and stream processors on the PS4 vs Xbone gap as the Xbone vs WiiU gap. The gap between PS4 and Xbone is ~500Gflop, Wii vs Xbone can be 800Gflop at minimum


wii u estimates start at 176 gflops and go up to 352 gflops, however the fact is the wii u gpu likely has a wii gpu integrated into it and this gpu may run at higher speeds in wii u mode to generate the gamepad screen when independent of the main screen. At best it probably adds 30 gflops performance to the main gflops performance of the wii u. The performance level we have seen from wii u makes it highly likely the performance is at the lower level 176gflops. However architecture differences means this will perform probably 30% plus minimum over the older architecture of the 360 gpu. Roughly speaking the wii u gpu is about the same performance level as 360/PS3 but has an enhanced feature set and has 32MB of ultra fast embedded memory. So its is bottleneck free almost. However still it performs below 360 and PS3 on most ocassions due to a slow CPU and low main memory bandwidth.

LIkely wii u architecture is something like a mobile Radion 6400M. Mobility architecture is extremely likely due to less heat issues even when fabricated at a low cost 40nm process as used in the wii u.

For the wii u to take so little power and produce so little heat that only needs a small fan it has to be a fairly low performance gpu. Not only that but you have to factor in the low bandwidth memory chips used which are less than 360 and PS3. It would be pointless fitting a higher performance gpu with such limited memory bandwidth. Lets not forget in the wii u that memory bandwidth has to be shared by both gpu and cpu. The 32MB of embedded memory certainly helps but its clear there would be huge restrictions on a more powerful gpu.

Then how is Nintendo able to create something like X or Bayonetta 2?  Those games look significantly better than anything on the 360/ps3.



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