oniyide said: so we going to keep making excuses and ignore that PS4 and xone, two consoles that JUST released have a higher percentage than Wii U? Sounds about right.
When you take your time to actually THINK about it then yes it does sound right.
Its not nintendos fault PS3 owners buy PS2 games (after they have lost the backwards compatiblity) for full price. So dont expect Nintendo Wiiu owners to buy PS360 ports that look even worse than on those 2 consoles that have 24FPS that are missing gamemodes that will never get DLC and are made by people that actually INSULT the userbase (like EA does or that Darksiders2 def etc)
I mean would you buy Watchdogs on PS4 if it would be 1024x576 25fps when the game on PS3 would have FREE online would run in 1280x720 with 30FPS? Just because the devs could not be bothered to optimize the game? No? Then dont expect WiiU owners to buy PS360 games like Batman that run at 25fps either especially when they are LATE ports that cost $10 on top of the PS360 price.
Not everyone has lost the sense for VALUE like mainstreamers have (maybe they never had it to begin with). I mean there were people that bought Castlevania on 360 and it drops to 12FPS..... ints not like gameplay is important to games right? Its only about the visuals ........
So you are ignoring why the PS4/one versions do much better than Wii U versions on smaller install base? that makes no sense.
what are these ports that look worst again? remind me. Game modes? please stop crying. There are 4 games period that are actually missing modes. Spec ops, Spilnter cell, Batman and thats its. Those are the exceptions NOT the rules so lets put that sad argument to rest. And in the case of Batman it was sold cheaper and you missed an online mode that sucked anyway. DLC is a sad excuse, as only 30% of buyers even purchase DLC, whats interesting is that most of the sales for these WIi U ports came BEFORE they even found out about DLC, tells me they dont really care that much. Sure one can make the arugment that after it would stifle sales but if you really wanted the game on Wii U you would buy it DLC or not OR you would just get it for another system you had, either way its not a lost sale for the 3rd party.
Wow, I wouldnt buy Watchdogs period, i have no interest in that game. Does the game HAVE an online mode, not that it matters. I have PSN+ so whatever. But if it was another game, i would buy it for PS4 YES i would, hold that. I would buy it if I had NO other option. So it runs better on another system? so what? as long as the game is playable and from the reviews none of those WII U ports are not playable. I wouldnt care, unless im a multiplat owner ill get the best version i can which is what ive always done so there would be no need for me to complain right?
Whats "So you are ignoring why the PS4/one versions do much better than Wii U versions on smaller install base? that makes no sense." supposed to mean? Do PS4 X1 versions look worse than PS3 versions? or do they have lower framerate? Do they lack features? Is Nintendo a dudebro system like PS and Xbox? NOPE
Its like asking "why is more milk coming out of female nipples compared to male nipples?" rofl. Its 2 different types of people and thats the point. The Nintendo gamer is no dudebro gamer. They expect MORE and giving them LESS sure is counter productive.
Also seriously Who has only a WiiU? Do you really think people that play mainstream games dont have a mainstream system? or a PC? Very unlikely so your ONLY OPTION argument is invalid when it comes to mainstream games. The general consensus is Nintendo systems are second consoles right? And since third party makes shitty ports why would a person buy a WiiU game when the PS360 version is better?
Also not everyone is like YOU sure also not everyone is like me but saying "its not a lost sale" is completely nonsense. it is and I can prove it! 2 friends and me didnt buy AC3 for WiiU this because of the FPS and PS3 having more content.
We waited a year for the game to drop in price and no we have it on PC 1 guy didnt buy it at all ($5 bucks on steam also is lost sale IMHO because they just earned 55 less than they could have earned)
You also dont have to act tough with your "stop crying" because you dont need to convince anyone. Either accept my opinion or not okay? I mean you clearly have no idea what you are talking about otherwise your "missing game mode/features list" would include more games e.g Sniper Elite V2 and COD Black Ops 2 etc. Who said every game lacks a game mode anyway? Reading disorder? ( revenge for stop crying xD)
Also SplinterCell+ SpecOps + Batman = 3 not 4 games. And what is Spec Ops WiiU supposed to be anyway? Never heard of it. Google also doesnt give me any results.
How about you name 10 ports that dont have flaws?
No gameplay destroying 10-26FPS
No lack of support
No missing game modes
No archaic port
Not 1 game instead of trilogy
A game where the devs/publishers didnt lie (CODs FullHD is 720p or less rofl)
Not delayed because of stupid reason.
Not more expensive than on other systems.
Dev/Pub not insulting gamers.
I bought Darksiders 2 and Sonic Allstars Racing transformed and Tekken Tag2. Will also buy Rayman Legends because those are okay/good ports. Would have bought NFS but 1.EA is cancer 2. it was old 3. I am not into "realistic/sim" racers at all. (Give me motorstorm, F-Zero, Xtreme G or Mario Kart then I will buy it)
And guess what... all those ports did well when you have "userbase/consoles : game sold ratio" in mind. How do you explain that? Even games like BLOPS2 sold well YES THEY SOLD WELL believe it or not. (comparing 80m userbase to 4m consoles and expecting 1:1 software sales is just retarded) its about userbase/consoles : game sold ratio not TOTAL NUMBER OF SOLD UNITS and even then yo have to take other factors into account.
Lets use newer numbers (the old ones were even more in favor of Nintendo. Blops2 is hard to find on WiiU now at least at retail) So WiiU = 5.7m consoles. PS3 = 81.1m consoles
Blops2 WiiU = 0.23m PS3 = 11.06m
Now lets use some MATH okay?
5.7/0.23 = every 24.78th WiiU owner bought the game 81.1/11.06 = every 7.33th PS3 owner bought the game.
So the PS3 version sold roughly 3x better than the WiiU version.
When you think about:
how the Wii CODmunity was abandoned like MW2 never came to Wii etc. (COD3 sold great on Wii much better than on PS3!)
how MW1 skipped Wii (for at least 1 year! the most important game in the franchise that made it a success!) resulted in userbase shift
How they lied about Blops2 WiiU being being FullHD
How the game lacks some features
You can still find Blops2 for PS3 everywhere compared to the WiiU version (at least in some areas)
How PS3 constantly got COD games and was able to establish a codmunity
How PS3 players are likely to STAY at a Sony system because of their friendlist.
Then selling 3x less than on PS3 does not look that bad. isn't bad at all.
You always use the old systems to boost the new one thats how it works.
I mean do you think EA would have been able to pay all the BF4 bills (not porting but all of the development costs etc) with the PS4 and X1 version alone? ROFL. PS3 and 360 paid the bills and PS4 and X1 get support because it does NOT matter if the PS4 or X1 makes profit as long as the PS360 versions do more than the PS4 and X1 lose money.
Its about establishing your IP on the new system which is far more important than just making profit with every single port. You dont establish your IP by ignoring a system or by skippig every second installment or whatever etc.
People dont want your games? Make them want them.
Want to have a bigger userbase? Put effort money and time into making it bigger.
Deal with short term loss to make long term profit.
This is RULE 1 in economics. What if sony would have dropped the PS3 in 2008 because it was not making profit? Would the internet be more peaceful? maybe would we have missed alot of great games? certainly!
I mean what do most people do when they want their own little company? They take risks. Get some money from investors or banks and try.
But what do third parties do? They go the path of least resistance. Because shareholders and people in general are not patient at all.
I mean what was the point in not having GTA5 on WiiU? They made billions so wasting a few millons to establish your IP on the WiiU is a no brainer. Someone in charge didnt want it to happen thats it.
Edit:
"Sure one can make the arugment that after it would stifle sales but if you really wanted the game on Wii U you would buy it DLC or not OR you would just get it for another system you had, either way its not a lost sale for the 3rd party."
As mentioned before not everyone is like you some people are like me. They wont buy it because there is no need to and it will get cheaper anyways. Or they were looking forward to Wiiu specific features and lost interest because of the flaws. So it IS a lost sale in some cases.
But more importantly you just agreed with me.
Third party gives WiiU owners NO REASON to buy the WiiU versions of their games. And then they whine about the bad sales. And complain about the WiIU userbase even tho it might be the same people that buy the game on PC instead. Thank god you understood that third party is the reason third party games dont sell on WiiU because people either lose interest or decide to buy another version because of the WiiU versions flaws. (in this case you are right its obviously not a lost sale but this scenario is not always the case)
LOL, why you mad though?
Really? why? its simple. you agree that most people dont just have a WIi U, so why complain? Just buy the game for whatever system you have that runs it better, thats pretty much what most people do as sales show.
"dudebro" console? well thats all their is. Ill use an adult term and say different demographics. Ninty has different demographics than SONY or MS, you can call it casual if you want (i can do it too), but those games that sell good on SONY and MS wont do as well on Ninty because it is NOT dudebro as you put it. So why even have a discussion, there is the answer right there. Whether it doesnt get precious DLC or runs slightly worst than the other versions doesnt matter if people werent going ot buy the game for hte system in the first place. Funny PS3 games still sold despite alot of them not running as well as 360 and vice versa. I wonder why?
oh and FYI those games minus Sonic sold terrible. Its not the norm. the people that actually matter dont care about attach ratio. All that shows is that that console itself is FLOPPING, which is why the games are getting less than expected sales across the board and which is why support is being pulled. Thats how it works. There is reason to buy 3rd party games on Wii U becasue they are good games. Same reason to buy games period. Matter of fact why even put the games on the system? the system isnt selling well, its not dudebro and most people have those dudebro consoles
The people that complain on the net obviously don't mean much though. Ubisoft and all the third party publishers need to find genres that thrive on the WiiU. Assassins Creed, Zombi U and Splinter Cell obviously aren't those franchises. They now have two options:
1. Give up trying and concentrate on what they know sells on the other platforms
2. Try other genres and see if they find an audience (like Just Dance on the Wii)
Option 1 is a lot easier than option 2, but that doesn't mean there isn't a large untapped market on the Wii U. They won't find them in the core genres though.
what are these genres? its not like there are just core genres on the Wii U. The Just Dance series isnt doing so hot, hell 3 party games period are not doing hot. No matter the genre. So what can they make? I almost wanna say platformers, but if its not made by Ninty nobody gives a damn. (looking at you Rayman AND Sonic)
Well, that's the question that doesn't seem to have an answer. Like I said earlier, Nintendo don't seem to have made that an easy question to answer.
The "whose fault is it" debate over third-party sales rises again. Is it the third-party devs, Nintendo or the Nintendo fans?
Meanwhile Nintendo and the Wii U suffers financially, the fans wanting and expecting the promised AAA 3rd-party games are still wanting and the third-party happily make their money elsewhere.
oniyide said: so we going to keep making excuses and ignore that PS4 and xone, two consoles that JUST released have a higher percentage than Wii U? Sounds about right.
When you take your time to actually THINK about it then yes it does sound right.
Its not nintendos fault PS3 owners buy PS2 games (after they have lost the backwards compatiblity) for full price. So dont expect Nintendo Wiiu owners to buy PS360 ports that look even worse than on those 2 consoles that have 24FPS that are missing gamemodes that will never get DLC and are made by people that actually INSULT the userbase (like EA does or that Darksiders2 def etc)
I mean would you buy Watchdogs on PS4 if it would be 1024x576 25fps when the game on PS3 would have FREE online would run in 1280x720 with 30FPS? Just because the devs could not be bothered to optimize the game? No? Then dont expect WiiU owners to buy PS360 games like Batman that run at 25fps either especially when they are LATE ports that cost $10 on top of the PS360 price.
Not everyone has lost the sense for VALUE like mainstreamers have (maybe they never had it to begin with). I mean there were people that bought Castlevania on 360 and it drops to 12FPS..... ints not like gameplay is important to games right? Its only about the visuals ........
This whole point is just dumb. Rayman Legends runs fine on Wii U and ACIV looks and runs better than PS360.
How is it dumb? AC4 runs like shit on WiiU you should educate yourself before you say it runs FINE. Plus why would I want to buy an inferior version? Ubisoft lost a WiiU sale with its "PS3 gets exclusive content bullshit." They either make the PS3 version more expensive or the other versions cheaper. (because the additional content has nothing to do with the console specific features but its just a fucking "contract" decision between Ubi and Sony THIS IS CONSUMER UNFRIENDLY SHIT like retailer exclusive preorder bonus etc.)
Take a look at how FINE it runs on WiiU okay?
yup 18 FPS is fine....
and
Rayman sold best on WiiU despite the delay and the small userbase. People lost interest in Rayman because its nothing special anymore (exlusivity is special) and I was looking forward to it and what happened? I was disappointed. I mean why would I want to wait 7 months when I want to play it now?
I thought to myself "well when I have to wait 7 months I can wait another 6 months to get it on PS3 360 WiiU or PC whichever drops to 5-15 bucks first because as smart as third parties are its either "success during first 3 months" or "failure" this mentality and it being multiplat helps devaluing it which makes a price cut even more likely.
I will still buy it but I will never pay more than 15 bucks for it. One of the most annoying things to me is the feeling I got ripped off when I buy something just to see it on sale a month later. Thats why I buy Nintendo games day1 (because they almost never drop in price. They start to do it tho which makes me hesitate) and for third parties wait 6+ months until the price is somewhat stable. or until the GOTY edition is out.
So how is it a dumb point?
Another example I LOVE BORDERLANDS 1+2. Its one of my favorite series. I have it on PC (since I always buy my third party multiplats on PC unless they run great on console (30+FPS) and have console specific features. I also prefer PC because if its fucked up on PC the community can fix it + MOD support+ cheaper)
Even tho I love Borderlands 2 I waited for the GOTY edition (because I bought BL1 vanilla and felt ripped off when the GOTY came out) but since the GOTY edition of BL2 dropped in price super fast and appearantly GOTY does not mean EVERYTHING INCLUDED anymore I felt ripped off again and now I will wait for BL3 GOTY edition to come out AND to drop in price. I see no reason for this "price penalty"for early adopters. This has not much to do with me paying alot of money but with others getting the same for less it is a problem of fairness. Its simply a matter of principle.
Nintendo games do better because they are polished, feel complete and keep their price(value). I dont mind when my $50-60 game gets a price drop in 5 years. But I hate to see games 90% cheaper within 1 year. I have a huge backlog so most of the time I didnt even start the game before its 50% off.
you should educate YOURSELF, Rayman didnt sell the best on Wii U, that was PS3. Try again. So you didnt buy Rayman because it was no longer "special" thats a great attitude to have. And if you hesistat to buy 3rd party games day one was it really a big deal Rayman got delayed?
Yes AC4 does fun fine, its playable isnt it? If you only have a WIi U what difference does it make that another version runs better, you cant play that version anyway. And if you are a multiplat owner why complain. It seems you want to blame SOny becasue they have exclusive DLC, get over it. Sony and MS have been doing that dance all gen and its not going to change. Funny thing is that didnt stop the MS machine versions from selling well. So obvisouly the simple solution is Wii U owners are not into AC as a series.
If you like NINTY just play Ninty games, be merry.
"you should educate YOURSELF, Rayman didnt sell the best on Wii U, that was PS3." If you want to act smart then read before you reply okay?
IT SOLD BEST ON WIIU (what I said) VS IT SOLD MOST ON PS3 (what you actually mean)
5.7m WiiUs / 0.28 = every 20.35th person bought it 81.1m PS3s / 0.31 = every 261.61st person bought it = 12.85x better sales on WiiU in terms of userbase:sold units (You know like an axis of abscissas needs e.g X and Y)
So what was it? Oh yeah try again.
"Yes AC4 does fun fine, its playable isnt it?" No not really. Assassins Creed does not run fine at all it does not even run mediocre. Mediocre is 25-30 fps or so. Dips to 18 is horrible. Castlevania's dips to 12fps on 360 for example would be insulting. But if AC3's 18fps is something you call "fine" then I can understand how "outsiders" dont understand why NIntendo gamers have a problem with third party titles and their quality. At least we made a discovery in the ever-ongoing Nintendo vs third party debate! Yay I guess? It's Sig worthy isn't it?
"So you didnt buy Rayman because it was no longer "special" thats a great attitude to have. " Actually it is I mean why buy generic stuff? And no thats not the reason...I didnt buy Rayman Legends because there was simply no "need" to anymore
I didnt need it when it finally came out i needed it when I wanted a new WiiU game during the software drought.
I was disappointed and the... well lets call it "hype" and the interest was gone.
Since the game would be everywhere, there will never be a problem to get a copy of it and going multiplatform devalued it. Not only was the game competing with other WiiU games but with every game on every platform and a price drop(thats what I mean with devalue) on system A will likely result in a price drop on system B. So it was guaranteed to drop at least 75% in price. You can occasionaly buy it for 15 bucks now and its still getting cheaper. (Lego City Undercover for example is still expensive.)
"And if you hesistat to buy 3rd party games day one was it really a big deal Rayman got delayed? " I dont buy third party games day1 when they are multiplatform because of the devaluing aspect. (Got AssCreed3, FarCry3, SleepingDogs, DarkSouls, Hitman Absolution, TombRaider, Bioshock Infinte, Borderlands 2 for 5-15 bucks each)
Lets say Rayman would be a multiplatform title from the start YES even then the delay would be a big deal becuase I have to wait additional months. I mean lets say it would be a multiplat title coming in January then it would be cheap in July. Now it gets delayed and I have to wait 7 more months and it will be cheap in january of the next year. So its still +7 months.
Every game delay is somewhat of a big deal to at least a few people. I mean I am still waiting for GTA5 on PC (even tho its not really a delay in this case xD)
5.7m WiiUs / 0.28 = every 20.35th person bought it 81.1m PS3s / 0.31 = every 261.61st person bought it = 12.85x better sales on WiiU in terms of userbase:sold units (You know like an axis of abscissas needs e.g X and Y)
So what was it? Oh yeah try again.
Never in history has "sold best" EVER gone by install base. Sold best means that Ubisoft made the most money from a specific platform, which was the PS3.
5.7m WiiUs / 0.28 = every 20.35th person bought it 81.1m PS3s / 0.31 = every 261.61st person bought it = 12.85x better sales on WiiU in terms of userbase:sold units (You know like an axis of abscissas needs e.g X and Y)
So what was it? Oh yeah try again.
Never in history has "sold best" EVER gone by install base. Sold best means that Ubisoft made the most money from a specific platform, which was the PS3.
Indeed, talk about moving goalposts. But what's funny is how he tries to turn it into a legitimate point.
I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime.
