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Forums - Gaming - Is it harder to be a Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft fan?

Fusioncode on 09 February 2014
Zappykins said:

Ok, well if you want to look over time, it's a much worse picture.  It's dropped to 10.7% off it's high in 2000.  So nearly 89.3% of the company's value has evaporated. (I know, it's kinda really sad - they should have listened to me more carefully.)

And I agree with you it's never that simple.  Must of Sony's revenue is made through it's insurance companies.   I doubt it will dissapear, but I don't know what will happen.  Apple was going to die but Bill Gates saved them with $213ish Million dollars (today's dollars, was $150 mil in 1997.)   Perhapse he or someone might do the same for Sony.

Or maybe they could have a hit movie this year.   But when they are several times more likely to go banrukpt than Eastman-Kodak, the next one on the list, it's not a good time to be that company.

As far as the games, I look at it this way:

Driveclub vs Forza - that just kind of a wash.  It means fans of either console get a driving sime they can be happy about.  Neither side loses.

The Order 1886- could be cool, but it's lacking multi player (annouced today.) So might be a fun game, but will not grow the revenue generating PlayStation Plus.  Say compair it to Quantum Break, and maybe it's a slight edge to Sony as it will probably have a younger demographic.

Uncharted - yes a big exclusive.  No doubt about that one.  But it's coming at an awkward time, and up against TitanFall.  Uncharted should also have multiplayer and  increase PlayStation Plus, as we know they aren't making money on the system, they need to sell the service to make revenue.  TitanFall will push both Xbox One and Xbox Live. So even if TitanFall it's bad reviews and flops, the preorders are going to be ahead of Uncharted for a long time.  But for this discussion, let's say they are equal.

Then Xbox One has some Halo game in the Fall.  That will be at least some small to big.  Plus, like it or not, Kinect games also sell systems.  And there are some decent Kinect games coming to the Xbox One this year.

Then we come down to Project Spark.  The crazy wild card.  It could flop, and flop hard.  Or it could be huge like Minecraft.  I don't see much inbetween.

Well I don't think anyone's going to save Sony, aside from a surprise intervention by the Japanese government. Unlikely but possible. Too early to write them off as bankrupt though since they're getting rid of the PC division and spinning off the TV line. Which is the reason they're losing a billion this fiscal year, if it wasn't for the restructuring they probably would have profited. They made a solid profit this recent quarter. We'll have to see how the restructuring goes but at least Sony if finally making important changes. 

Uncharted isn't coming out at the same time as Titanfall. Are you thinking of Infamous? I do agree that Sony's first party lineup is more single-player oriented than Microsoft, but games like Destiny will help keep PS+ subscriptions active. Of course that's also on XBO but enough people on PS4 will buy it to play online. We can debate about the lineups of each system all day but I don't think we're ever going to come to a satisfactory conclusion. Though it should be very interesting with a new Halo, Uncharted, and Smash Bros all coming out this holiday. Each system's strongest exclusives will be releasing at the same time. 



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Fusioncode on 09 February 2014
dane007 said:
Theres no reason for it to be difficult. Just be a fan of all three and enjoy benefits that come with it :)

Not controversial enough. If you have something nice to say then don't say anything at all. 



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Anfebious on 09 February 2014

It's hard to be a fan, they don't pay me enough money for it.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Zappykins on 09 February 2014
Fusioncode said:
Zappykins said:

Ok, well if you want to look over time, it's a much worse picture.  It's dropped to 10.7% off it's high in 2000.  So nearly 89.3% of the company's value has evaporated. (I know, it's kinda really sad - they should have listened to me more carefully.)

And I agree with you it's never that simple.  Must of Sony's revenue is made through it's insurance companies.   I doubt it will dissapear, but I don't know what will happen.  Apple was going to die but Bill Gates saved them with $213ish Million dollars (today's dollars, was $150 mil in 1997.)   Perhapse he or someone might do the same for Sony.

Or maybe they could have a hit movie this year.   But when they are several times more likely to go banrukpt than Eastman-Kodak, the next one on the list, it's not a good time to be that company.

As far as the games, I look at it this way:

Driveclub vs Forza - that just kind of a wash.  It means fans of either console get a driving sime they can be happy about.  Neither side loses.

The Order 1886- could be cool, but it's lacking multi player (annouced today.) So might be a fun game, but will not grow the revenue generating PlayStation Plus.  Say compair it to Quantum Break, and maybe it's a slight edge to Sony as it will probably have a younger demographic.

Uncharted - yes a big exclusive.  No doubt about that one.  But it's coming at an awkward time, and up against TitanFall.  Uncharted should also have multiplayer and  increase PlayStation Plus, as we know they aren't making money on the system, they need to sell the service to make revenue.  TitanFall will push both Xbox One and Xbox Live. So even if TitanFall it's bad reviews and flops, the preorders are going to be ahead of Uncharted for a long time.  But for this discussion, let's say they are equal.

Then Xbox One has some Halo game in the Fall.  That will be at least some small to big.  Plus, like it or not, Kinect games also sell systems.  And there are some decent Kinect games coming to the Xbox One this year.

Then we come down to Project Spark.  The crazy wild card.  It could flop, and flop hard.  Or it could be huge like Minecraft.  I don't see much inbetween.

Well I don't think anyone's going to save Sony, aside from a surprise intervention by the Japanese government. Unlikely but possible. Too early to write them off as bankrupt though since they're getting rid of the PC division and spinning off the TV line. Which is the reason they're losing a billion this fiscal year, if it wasn't for the restructuring they probably would have profited. They made a solid profit this recent quarter. We'll have to see how the restructuring goes but at least Sony if finally making important changes. 

Uncharted isn't coming out at the same time as Titanfall. Are you thinking of Infamous? I do agree that Sony's first party lineup is more single-player oriented than Microsoft, but games like Destiny will help keep PS+ subscriptions active. Of course that's also on XBO but enough people on PS4 will buy it to play online. We can debate about the lineups of each system all day but I don't think we're ever going to come to a satisfactory conclusion. Though it should be very interesting with a new Halo, Uncharted, and Smash Bros all coming out this holiday. Each system's strongest exclusives will be releasing at the same time. 

Ops, yes switched Uncharted for Infamous.

And solid profit?  Clearly, you must be looking at different financial numbers than me.  Sony hasn't made a solid profit in a very long time.  Like close to many users here lifetimes. 

Is it official they are spinning off TV's?  Cause that's what me, and most people from my gen think of a Sony's big thing.  It would be like pokimon killing off  pickachu.

Anyway, thanks for keeping it peaceful and intersting.  It;s more fun that way.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
Fusioncode on 09 February 2014
Zappykins said:
Fusioncode said:
Zappykins said:

Ok, well if you want to look over time, it's a much worse picture.  It's dropped to 10.7% off it's high in 2000.  So nearly 89.3% of the company's value has evaporated. (I know, it's kinda really sad - they should have listened to me more carefully.)

And I agree with you it's never that simple.  Must of Sony's revenue is made through it's insurance companies.   I doubt it will dissapear, but I don't know what will happen.  Apple was going to die but Bill Gates saved them with $213ish Million dollars (today's dollars, was $150 mil in 1997.)   Perhapse he or someone might do the same for Sony.

Or maybe they could have a hit movie this year.   But when they are several times more likely to go banrukpt than Eastman-Kodak, the next one on the list, it's not a good time to be that company.

As far as the games, I look at it this way:

Driveclub vs Forza - that just kind of a wash.  It means fans of either console get a driving sime they can be happy about.  Neither side loses.

The Order 1886- could be cool, but it's lacking multi player (annouced today.) So might be a fun game, but will not grow the revenue generating PlayStation Plus.  Say compair it to Quantum Break, and maybe it's a slight edge to Sony as it will probably have a younger demographic.

Uncharted - yes a big exclusive.  No doubt about that one.  But it's coming at an awkward time, and up against TitanFall.  Uncharted should also have multiplayer and  increase PlayStation Plus, as we know they aren't making money on the system, they need to sell the service to make revenue.  TitanFall will push both Xbox One and Xbox Live. So even if TitanFall it's bad reviews and flops, the preorders are going to be ahead of Uncharted for a long time.  But for this discussion, let's say they are equal.

Then Xbox One has some Halo game in the Fall.  That will be at least some small to big.  Plus, like it or not, Kinect games also sell systems.  And there are some decent Kinect games coming to the Xbox One this year.

Then we come down to Project Spark.  The crazy wild card.  It could flop, and flop hard.  Or it could be huge like Minecraft.  I don't see much inbetween.

Well I don't think anyone's going to save Sony, aside from a surprise intervention by the Japanese government. Unlikely but possible. Too early to write them off as bankrupt though since they're getting rid of the PC division and spinning off the TV line. Which is the reason they're losing a billion this fiscal year, if it wasn't for the restructuring they probably would have profited. They made a solid profit this recent quarter. We'll have to see how the restructuring goes but at least Sony if finally making important changes. 

Uncharted isn't coming out at the same time as Titanfall. Are you thinking of Infamous? I do agree that Sony's first party lineup is more single-player oriented than Microsoft, but games like Destiny will help keep PS+ subscriptions active. Of course that's also on XBO but enough people on PS4 will buy it to play online. We can debate about the lineups of each system all day but I don't think we're ever going to come to a satisfactory conclusion. Though it should be very interesting with a new Halo, Uncharted, and Smash Bros all coming out this holiday. Each system's strongest exclusives will be releasing at the same time. 

Ops, yes switched Uncharted for Infamous.

And solid profit?  Clearly, you must be looking at different financial numbers than me.  Sony hasn't made a solid profit in a very long time.  Like close to many users here lifetimes. 

Is it official they are spinning off TV's?  Cause that's what me, and most people from my gen think of a Sony's big thing.  It would be like pokimon killing off  pickachu.

Anyway, thanks for keeping it peaceful and intersting.  It;s more fun that way.

Sony made a profit this quarter. And it's a ultimately a good think to make the TV division it's own thing. It loses quite a bit of money. Sony might be a smaller company but at least they'll be more profitable. 



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Zappykins on 09 February 2014
MoHasanie said:
Zappykins said:
MoHasanie said:
Zappykins said:
 

It comes down to the games too.  They just don't seem to have the high profile games down that are exclusives.  Te big ones they do are multi plats.  Just looks like it will be rough waters ahead.

And the Bankruptsy part, unfortunately many analist do predict it: http://www.ign.com/blogs/kingalex94/2014/01/03/sony-has-a-79-of-going-bankrupt-soon

It's been going that way for a long time.

Declaring bankrptcy is not the end for such huge corporations. GM declared bankruptcy in 2009 but the government could never let such a huge corporation fail with 200,000+ employees and so helped reorganise the business by closing and selling off factories and subsdiaries. And GM has a huge $172bn in debt so it was in a worse position than Sony is right now.

Similarly Sony with 140,000 employees would never simiply go out of business for just declaring bankruptcy. The government would rescue them first.

Well, yes and no. GM was only valued at $26 Billion at the time so it wasn't that big of a value for the US - but held a number of important jobs from the other companies they relied upon that business.  Sony is currently around $16-17 Billion depending on the day.  I seriusly doubt the US government would do anything for Sony - it doesn't feed other business the way auto manufacturing does.  In other words, it's not as imporant for the US economny as GM was in 2009.  Maybe Japan would.

Sony wouldn't just all dissapear - other companies would buy off pieces.  But just look at THQ and you never know how things are going to fall.  But depends how much they can get for PC manufacturing. Rhode Island worked hard to stop it, but it didn't work out for THQ in the long run.

But maybe you are right, perhapse it's harder to be a Mirosoft or Nintendo fan.

Wow I never knew GM was only worth $26bn at the time! :O . Now it worth twice that. 

No I meant the Japanese gvt would be prepared to rescue Sony. Breaking up Sony and selling different divisions would probably be the worst case scenario but I don't think it will happen, but who knows! 

Yes, and I forget the exact number. But it's saved many, many, many more jobs that even it thought it would.  Turns out saving GM was a very good thing for the USA.  (Still wish they were forced to bring back the EV1 - with today's tech it could be even better!)

I don't know enough about Japan's politics to speculate.  It sort of depends on who you know and who likes you at the time.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
MoHasanie on 09 February 2014
Zappykins said:

Is it official they are spinning off TV's?  Cause that's what me, and most people from my gen think of a Sony's big thing.  It would be like pokimon killing off  pickachu.


Yeah its confirmed that they will make the TV division a seperate subsidiary by July 2014. I still don't see how its going to sort things though since spining it off will not make it profitable and it will still continue making huge loses but lets see if Hirai's plan works out. 



    

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MoHasanie on 09 February 2014
Zappykins said:

Yes, and I forget the exact number. But it's saved many, many, many more jobs that even it thought it would.  Turns out saving GM was a very good thing for the USA.  (Still wish they were forced to bring back the EV1 - with today's tech it could be even better!)

I don't know enough about Japan's politics to speculate.  It sort of depends on who you know and who likes you at the time.


Yeah it saved close to 1 million jobs in the US! And although I just read that it lost the government $10bn, the overall result was positive since those workers who would've lost their jobs would have had to have received unemployment benefits plus the government would lose all that tax revenue from them, and the overall effect on the economy would be negative due to lower consumption and lower taxes leading to lower gvt spending. 

In the case of Japan, I think saving Sony for $16bn is worth it if you will save 140,000 jobs. I mean the Japanese economy is already stagnant and hardly growing. The only problem would be with the Japanese gvt. gigantic debt and if they could afford saving Sony, but I mean $16bn is not that much... I think its a bargain :D



    

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Justagamer on 10 February 2014
Fusioncode said:
Zappykins said:
pezus said:
Zappykins said:
I'd say Sony, because it's hard to push a console for a company 1. that is expected to declare bankruptcy soon. They seem really panicked and unhappy. Even at a cheaper price and more markets, 2. it's barely leading.

But it's interesting, each of the fans of a company seem to reflect the values and principals of that company.

1. That is not expected.

2. I wouldn't call over a 1.5m lead and counting in just two months barely leading. It's selling about twice what One is doing every week now.

It comes down to the games too.  They just don't seem to have the high profile games down that are exclusives.  Te big ones they do are multi plats.  Just looks like it will be rough waters ahead.

And the Bankruptsy part, unfortunately many analist do predict it: http://www.ign.com/blogs/kingalex94/2014/01/03/sony-has-a-79-of-going-bankrupt-soon

It's been going that way for a long time.

1. They have Infamous coming next month with Uncharted, Driveclub, and The Order 1886 on their way. I don't see how that's any worse than the XBO lineup of Titanfall, Project Spark, Quantum Break, and possible a Halo 2 remake. Clearly those PS4 games don't appeal to you but it's shortsighted to say they aren't high profile. And Considering the XBO is doing terribly in Europe and has no chance in Japan; I think it's the one that has rough waters ahead. Especially since it's currently losing in the US, where it dominated last gen.

2. One of the IGN comments summed up that article pretty well, let me post it:

 

All these economists did was use a custom Altman z-score algorithm according to their methodology, which is linear algebra and statistics. It's a decent predictor of bankruptcy for solely manufacturing companies, of which Sony is not. That's part of their business, the rest's in finance, for which this algorithm's basis is inappropriate and inaccurate as a metric. It's also dependent on how they bin their data, etc. for a variety of parameters that determine the score.

The reason it's so poor a metric for Sony's financial aspects has to do with stochastic fluctuations that directly affect their financial business making a time-series analysis a more appropriate metric. Before I read this blog, I knew *none* of this. I just used your links and Google to do some research. I'm only a mathematician, so I don't know finances per se. All I know is that their given metric is not well suited to predicting Sony's future based on my brief readings. Thus, I'm not terribly concerned from this report based on what I just learned. -Peace

 

Edit: sorry responded to the wrong post, so I deleted it.



Fusioncode on 10 February 2014
Justagamer said:
Fusioncode said:

It comes down to the games too.  They just don't seem to have the high profile games down that are exclusives.  Te big ones they do are multi plats.  Just looks like it will be rough waters ahead.

And the Bankruptsy part, unfortunately many analist do predict it: http://www.ign.com/blogs/kingalex94/2014/01/03/sony-has-a-79-of-going-bankrupt-soon

It's been going that way for a long time.

1. They have Infamous coming next month with Uncharted, Driveclub, and The Order 1886 on their way. I don't see how that's any worse than the XBO lineup of Titanfall, Project Spark, Quantum Break, and possible a Halo 2 remake. Clearly those PS4 games don't appeal to you but it's shortsighted to say they aren't high profile. And Considering the XBO is doing terribly in Europe and has no chance in Japan; I think it's the one that has rough waters ahead. Especially since it's currently losing in the US, where it dominated last gen.

2. One of the IGN comments summed up that article pretty well, let me post it:

 

All these economists did was use a custom Altman z-score algorithm according to their methodology, which is linear algebra and statistics. It's a decent predictor of bankruptcy for solely manufacturing companies, of which Sony is not. That's part of their business, the rest's in finance, for which this algorithm's basis is inappropriate and inaccurate as a metric. It's also dependent on how they bin their data, etc. for a variety of parameters that determine the score.

The reason it's so poor a metric for Sony's financial aspects has to do with stochastic fluctuations that directly affect their financial business making a time-series analysis a more appropriate metric. Before I read this blog, I knew *none* of this. I just used your links and Google to do some research. I'm only a mathematician, so I don't know finances per se. All I know is that their given metric is not well suited to predicting Sony's future based on my brief readings. Thus, I'm not terribly concerned from this report based on what I just learned. -Peace

 


I sure am glad I read this post.... Those analysts sl early don't know what they're talking about saying Sony is verging on bankruptcy... Kaz harai coming in to "turn" the company around must mean they're doing great, and he will make them do great....er. Gosh, I am relieved that your analysis shows that Sony is nowhere near bankruptcy... It makes me wonder why everywhere you read, that Sony is losing billions, for years now, and headed towards bankruptcy.... Oh, because they are.

Huh? What in the world are you talking about? Please show me where I said that Sony was "doing great" or they are "nowhere near bankruptcy". That commentator I quoted explained why Macroaxis' estimate doesn't entirely work for a company like Sony. I have no idea where you got all that other crap from.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!