By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Welcome to the corporate dictatorship of America!

the2real4mafol said:
SocialistSlayer said:
the2real4mafol said:
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

What are the other legitimate functions of government according to you?

I think they all pretty much boil down to protecting rights.

Fair enough but for me. It's 3 things. Law and order (which includes protecting rights), a welfare state (especially free healthcare and education) and conserving landmarks and the natural environment.

I know it's a bit off topic but i was just interested.  

i dont think those words mean what you think they mean. those are contridictory views. you cant support protecting property rights while simultaniously supporting a welfare state, which requires the confiscation and redistrubtion of somebodies property.

your just full of contridictions and hypocracy today, arent you.

Yeah i can be contradictory sometimes but that just happens, I won't deny it. I'm still finding my political beliefs. This thread just proved to a complete fail that's all. No worry, i never take this place seriously anyway. 

Anyway, onto the welfare state. Property ain't necesarilly confiscated in a welfare state. A welfare state just redistributes wealth more evenly to do many things. Like social housing, universal healthcare and education among other things. Unless wealth is considered property itself now (which sounds odd to me), property rights aren't infinged in this case.

Maybe you were thinking about the nationalisation of key parts of the economy like banks, transport or energy. That would be against property rights i guess, but it depends on if the government created them in the first place or not.  

redisdributing wealth = stealing kindly borrowing from somebody and giving to another



 

Around the Network
the2real4mafol said:

This "democracy" has to be more representative to stop dissatisfaction

Which it can't be in modern superstates like the USA or EU because the people who call the shots are physically and socially too far removed from the people in whose name they enrich themselves govern.

the2real4mafol said:

If only money wasn't involved!

Yes, if only they were free to wield their power without financial concerns. It's all that pesky money. Like Lord Acton said, "Money tends to corrupt, and absolute money corrupts absolutely."

the2real4mafol said:

Corruption is one thing but Bolivia isn't a dictatorship. It's like anyone who wins 60% of the popular vote is seen as a dictator.

I was probably speaking too loosely there. What I meant was that Morales has enjoyed the same fetishization as a lot of dictators such as his buddy Hugo, although he probably doesn't qualify as one himself. As far as I know he's merely a race-baiting shithead.

the2real4mafol said:

Shouldn't we get something back for paying taxes in? Also, the actual reason people are disincentised to work is not because they are lazy. No, it's because most jobs pay so badly that you are better off on benefits. Sad but true. Unless pay increases and more decent jobs are put into the economy then things will stay the same. Minimum wage simply isn't high enough

Again, this is circular reasoning. You have to pay taxes to support the activities of the government, so shouldn't the government give you something for paying taxes? Well, now! The government is giving us so much, so we should be glad to pay more taxes! Hmm... but shouldn't the government maybe give us more? I mean we pay all these taxes...

I think you are quite naive to believe that there aren't genuinely lazy people who are perfectly happy to subsist on welfare and you miss the larger point, besides. Even if you insist that all poor people are such saints that they are immune to the incentives and disincentives that drive us mere mortals, any system that punishes work is a terribly perverse one.

the2real4mafol said:

Proof?

Proof. Maybe I shouldn't say hurriedly, because it's part of a longer trend. One I would expect to accelerate if the native Swedes lose patience with welfare-dependent immigrants after all the rioting of late.



the2real4mafol said:
 

You can't be seriously telling me fracking is a good thing? I mean the evidence against it is very clear. It is an environmentally damaging practice, it has been proven. But because there is the potential to make tons of profit from it, any risk from fracking is ignored. 

To be fair, i'm not against using gas as a fuel but there has to be another way without contaminating everyone's water supply. It's just not worth the risk. Water is increasingly valuable in this world. 

Why not improve renewable energy or safety in nuclear energy instead of devastating the planet for profit? 


You are indeed wrong.

Most people don't know this... I'm guessing you don't... fracking has existed for about 50-60 years now... with generally no complaints until the last 5 or so.

Fracking can be done extremely safe with very little effects to the enviroment.


For example, contamination of ground water?  That only occurs when fracking fluids are spilled above ground.  Actual fluids used by frackers have pretty much zero chance of effecting ground water.   It's certaintly safer then nuclear power assuming you take the right precautions.

The recent hysteria is ironically enviromentalists being whipped into a hysteria by big oil who are afraid the new fracking methods for natural gas will cause a cheaper more envirometnally friendly, eaisly deployed power source that will kill oil prices.   Which means cheaper power and gas prices for everybody.

It's really all just big oil tricking enviromentalists to support a law that will prevent fracking for natural gas.  While big oil continues to frack for oil.

As for improving renweable enrgies.  Sure lets do that.  In 50 years or so it'll be great.

Nuclear Energy?  Sure, though it generally takes 10-20 years to build a nuclear plant due to all the crazy regulations for them, and often times they don't get finished for said reasons.

Additionally the waste effects of nuclear waste are going to be worse then actual fracking.   So it's really just more an anti-greenhouse stance in general.  In which case... fracking is STILL good because it lowers oil use.



SocialistSlayer said:
the2real4mafol said:
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

Fair enough but for me. It's 3 things. Law and order (which includes protecting rights), a welfare state (especially free healthcare and education) and conserving landmarks and the natural environment.

I know it's a bit off topic but i was just interested. 

The problem with the second bit as I see it is that conflicts with the first part (to give to someone you have to take from someone else) and it invariably corrupts a democratic system once politicians figure out they can buy voters and voters figure out they can be bought (which takes about two seconds).

Aren't politicians supposed to give voters what they want? In a democracy they are supposed to represent us, the voting public. 

The bigger problem is the 2 party system, especially when they are essentially the same thing. 

Anyway, while there are still people that are poor a welfare state is of total necessary. It's there to balance the field and give people essential services which everyone pays into. Only the state can do this, as they are the least likely to follow a profit motive above anything. Nothing wrong with making profits, but there is a problem when the system is cheated for greed like it is now. But yeah, i don't see how a welfare state can interfere with say property rights. No private property would be taken. But just remember not everyone is lucky enough to afford a house, so it's the state responsibility to give them houses or flats as the market won't help them. 

youre certainly right about that, that must be why they decide to loose $ trillions  instead.

Only because they are prefectly happy with invading the middle east! while reducing taxes for the rich. That's basically what George Bush did. 

The recession made the debt issue far worse though due to lost income and tax revenues. 



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

the2real4mafol said:
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

Fair enough but for me. It's 3 things. Law and order (which includes protecting rights), a welfare state (especially free healthcare and education) and conserving landmarks and the natural environment.

I know it's a bit off topic but i was just interested. 

The problem with the second bit as I see it is that conflicts with the first part (to give to someone you have to take from someone else) and it invariably corrupts a democratic system once politicians figure out they can buy voters and voters figure out they can be bought (which takes about two seconds).

Aren't politicians supposed to give voters what they want? In a democracy they are supposed to represent us, the voting public. 

The bigger problem is the 2 party system, especially when they are essentially the same thing. 

Anyway, while there are still people that are poor a welfare state is of total necessary. It's there to balance the field and give people essential services which everyone pays into. Only the state can do this, as they are the least likely to follow a profit motive above anything. Nothing wrong with making profits, but there is a problem when the system is cheated for greed like it is now. But yeah, i don't see how a welfare state can interfere with say property rights. No private property would be taken. But just remember not everyone is lucky enough to afford a house, so it's the state responsibility to give them houses or flats as the market won't help them. 


Dont know why you would think that. Must not have any corruption where you live, and people must not abuse their powers for their own gain. I myself although not religous, would trust the church to not put profit above others more than the government, and i would trust the government least of all with any type of power.  I mean we see abuses and overspending by every branch of the US government at every level (city, county, state, federal) so why should we believe that they dont put profit and power over our well being when its shown day in day out that they do?

 

Edit: I would add that if politicions in your area live better than every day people do, does that not show they value their success more than their fellow mans success? If not why dont they donate more time, money, and help to their neighbors as they are asking their neighbors to do for each other and them?



Around the Network
the2real4mafol said:
SocialistSlayer said:
the2real4mafol said:
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

Fair enough but for me. It's 3 things. Law and order (which includes protecting rights), a welfare state (especially free healthcare and education) and conserving landmarks and the natural environment.

I know it's a bit off topic but i was just interested. 

The problem with the second bit as I see it is that conflicts with the first part (to give to someone you have to take from someone else) and it invariably corrupts a democratic system once politicians figure out they can buy voters and voters figure out they can be bought (which takes about two seconds).

Aren't politicians supposed to give voters what they want? In a democracy they are supposed to represent us, the voting public. 

The bigger problem is the 2 party system, especially when they are essentially the same thing. 

Anyway, while there are still people that are poor a welfare state is of total necessary. It's there to balance the field and give people essential services which everyone pays into. Only the state can do this, as they are the least likely to follow a profit motive above anything. Nothing wrong with making profits, but there is a problem when the system is cheated for greed like it is now. But yeah, i don't see how a welfare state can interfere with say property rights. No private property would be taken. But just remember not everyone is lucky enough to afford a house, so it's the state responsibility to give them houses or flats as the market won't help them. 

youre certainly right about that, that must be why they decide to loose $ trillions  instead.

Only because they are prefectly happy with invading the middle east! while reducing taxes for the rich. That's basically what George Bush did. 

The recession made the debt issue far worse though due to lost income and tax revenues. 

you, realize if, the US taxed the evil "rich" at even a 100% tax rate, that would fund the government for like 2 weeks, right?

you should really invest in some critical thinking instead of just spouting regurgatated talking points..

 

also, pro-tip, bush cut taxes for every income bracket. obama, has raised taxes (lying about his campaign promises) on all income brackets.



 

SocialistSlayer said:
the2real4mafol said:
SocialistSlayer said:
the2real4mafol said:
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

Fair enough but for me. It's 3 things. Law and order (which includes protecting rights), a welfare state (especially free healthcare and education) and conserving landmarks and the natural environment.

I know it's a bit off topic but i was just interested. 

The problem with the second bit as I see it is that conflicts with the first part (to give to someone you have to take from someone else) and it invariably corrupts a democratic system once politicians figure out they can buy voters and voters figure out they can be bought (which takes about two seconds).

Aren't politicians supposed to give voters what they want? In a democracy they are supposed to represent us, the voting public. 

The bigger problem is the 2 party system, especially when they are essentially the same thing. 

Anyway, while there are still people that are poor a welfare state is of total necessary. It's there to balance the field and give people essential services which everyone pays into. Only the state can do this, as they are the least likely to follow a profit motive above anything. Nothing wrong with making profits, but there is a problem when the system is cheated for greed like it is now. But yeah, i don't see how a welfare state can interfere with say property rights. No private property would be taken. But just remember not everyone is lucky enough to afford a house, so it's the state responsibility to give them houses or flats as the market won't help them. 

youre certainly right about that, that must be why they decide to loose $ trillions  instead.

Only because they are prefectly happy with invading the middle east! while reducing taxes for the rich. That's basically what George Bush did. 

The recession made the debt issue far worse though due to lost income and tax revenues. 

you, realize if, the US taxed the evil "rich" at even a 100% tax rate, that would fund the government for like 2 weeks, right?

you should really invest in some critical thinking instead of just spouting regurgatated talking points..

 

also, pro-tip, bush cut taxes for every income bracket. obama, has raised taxes (lying about his campaign promises) on all income brackets.

Tax cuts are ok but not at a time of declaring war. Surely thats just common sense. 



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

This is all kinds of illegal...



HylianSwordsman said:
This is all kinds of illegal...


Not really.  Not anywhere.  If someone is illegally breaking into areas, endangering themselves and getting in way of buisness being done, a restraining order is perfectly legal... and one for all properties owned by the group makes sense.

Or if someone was stalking you and your famoly would you like to have to file 15 restraining orders for everywhere you or your family lives and visits?

 

It's pretty common sense that is someone is constantly tresspassing into areas owned by someone, they will get an injuction barring them from all of their property.



Kasz216 said:
HylianSwordsman said:
This is all kinds of illegal...


Not really.  Not anywhere.  If someone is illegally breaking into areas, endangering themselves and getting in way of buisness being done, a restraining order is perfectly legal... and one for all properties owned by the group makes sense.

Or if someone was stalking you and your famoly would you like to have to file 15 restraining orders for everywhere you or your family lives and visits?

 

It's pretty common sense that is someone is constantly tresspassing into areas owned by someone, they will get an injuction barring them from all of their property.


Are you fucking kidding me, it's against the God damn Bill of Rights! It's against the 1st Amendment! It's unconstitutional! It is anything but common sense. And that analogy of yours is completely invalid. Stalking and protesting are two completely different things, not analogous.