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Forums - Gaming - Lightning Returns FF XIII Review - 4 / 10

Xen said:
BasilZero said:
Xen said:

Ah?

Perhaps very Ravager to fight is what you mean.

Ravager, stagger, shift to commando, do damage, stagger off, rinse, repeat.

Enthralling!


If you do that, the staggering doesnt last long.

Ravager x2 + Commando x1 is best to start for staggering cause the more magic hits you do the less it staggers the enemy, need physical attacks to lower the falling speed.

Also having Commando x2 + Ravager x1 is best since you can use the two commandos to deal physical damage and to throw the enemy up in the air while the extra ravager juggles the enemy in the air (which is funny XD) - after STAGGERED I mean :P.

Also no Sentinel, medic, Sabetour at all?

Bolded: not for staggering, at least.

I detailed the scenario for purely dealing damage (and rudimentarily, at that  - finished the game in mid 2011, so it's hard for me to remember how it works PRECISELY).


They obviously didn't make it to any boss or eidolon fights, the first eidolon fight where Snow takes on Shiva cannot be finished with just Ravenger or Commando attacks. Anyone who has played this game beyond a few hours understands this. That means they didn't even put in more than a couple hours before they gave up on FFXIII and began parroting negative reviews like brainwashed haters. Congratz you can't fool me. :)



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BasilZero said:
oniyide said:


the fact that you cant even control your other party members shows that it is not FF style, thats barely RPG style


I agree with this too. The fact that you cant control your other party members was a let down for me as well however FFXIII isnt the first game to implement that though, FFXII also did that and I'm sure all future FF games will be like that.

Alongside the elimination of MP (which I enjoyed), the summon system, and the fact that they heal up your whole HP bar after EACH battle were cons for me in the combat system.

No FF12 didnt do that, well thats a lie it did, but you had the OPTION to control your party members. FF13 was the first game in the main series to not give you that option and that pretty sums up my issues with FF13 as a whole...streamline. Everything was so streamlined combat, the world, hell the characters themselves. It never felt like i was playing a JRPG, it felt like I was playing...hell i dont even know what it was to be honest. Like a dungeon crawler, but a crappy one. And i dont care for dungeon crawlers. But i get how people would enjoy that. I wouldnt even have minded if the story was good, but i found it to be terrible, i hated combat in FF12 but at least the world and characters were interesting (not you Vaan)

it seems like you have a more than a few cons, so im curious to know what about the battle system you liked. Cause i couldnt even enjoy the summons, they felt useless most of the time. FYI Im not trying to trick you into admitting the game was bad or something silly, you at the least attempt to explain why you like it instead of most people blindly defending it.



Xen said:
BasilZero said:
Xen said:

Ah?

Perhaps very Ravager to fight is what you mean.

Ravager, stagger, shift to commando, do damage, stagger off, rinse, repeat.

Enthralling!


If you do that, the staggering doesnt last long.

Ravager x2 + Commando x1 is best to start for staggering cause the more magic hits you do the less it staggers the enemy, need physical attacks to lower the falling speed.

Also having Commando x2 + Ravager x1 is best since you can use the two commandos to deal physical damage and to throw the enemy up in the air while the extra ravager juggles the enemy in the air (which is funny XD) - after STAGGERED I mean :P.

Also no Sentinel, medic, Sabetour at all?

Bolded: not for staggering, at least.

I detailed the scenario for purely dealing damage (and rudimentarily, at that  - finished the game in mid 2011, so it's hard for me to remember how it works PRECISELY).


Saboteur I'm certain cause stager, Sentinel may as well depending on the use.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

oniyide said:
BasilZero said:
oniyide said:


the fact that you cant even control your other party members shows that it is not FF style, thats barely RPG style


I agree with this too. The fact that you cant control your other party members was a let down for me as well however FFXIII isnt the first game to implement that though, FFXII also did that and I'm sure all future FF games will be like that.

Alongside the elimination of MP (which I enjoyed), the summon system, and the fact that they heal up your whole HP bar after EACH battle were cons for me in the combat system.

No FF12 didnt do that, well thats a lie it did, but you had the OPTION to control your party members. FF13 was the first game in the main series to not give you that option and that pretty sums up my issues with FF13 as a whole...streamline. Everything was so streamlined combat, the world, hell the characters themselves. It never felt like i was playing a JRPG, it felt like I was playing...hell i dont even know what it was to be honest. Like a dungeon crawler, but a crappy one. And i dont care for dungeon crawlers. But i get how people would enjoy that. I wouldnt even have minded if the story was good, but i found it to be terrible, i hated combat in FF12 but at least the world and characters were interesting (not you Vaan)

it seems like you have a more than a few cons, so im curious to know what about the battle system you liked. Cause i couldnt even enjoy the summons, they felt useless most of the time. FYI Im not trying to trick you into admitting the game was bad or something silly, you at the least attempt to explain why you like it instead of most people blindly defending it.


I didn't liked the summon as well, barely used them



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Final fantasy 13, actually i enjoyed the game right up they landed on the planet after that i thought the story fell apart.
And without the option of a game plus i never has a desire to replay unlike the ff before



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FinalFantasyXIII said:
oniyide said:
BasilZero said:
Nem said:


I was expecting FF style gameplay. Not auto-attack fest.


It is FF style.....LOL. Same commands, same setups, the only thing that is different is the addition of roles and they crapped out the summon system (which is my only complaint in the battle system).

But how you fight, attack the enemies, support your characters, use items, etc is exactly the same xD.


the fact that you cant even control your other party members shows that it is not FF style, thats barely RPG style


You control them through setting up PARADIGMS, which are a set of choices between physical attacks/elemental/magic attacks/eidolon attacks/item based choices with the added COM/RAV/SEN/SYN/MED/SAB specialization battle system paradigm advantages. It's a deeper combat system than you're used to with prior FF's.

The options are there and  if you're not aware enough to figure this all out I can clearly understand why your opionion is the way it is now. If you played through the game you would understand this....You didn't play through FFXIII did you, neither do the negative game reviewers. ;) IMHO Parroting to serve a brainwashed agenda is common in todays society, good one. It relates to the story quite well in FFXIII in that millions on the planet Cocoon. Didn't stand up to the lies of Sanctum only your party in FFXIII and NORA does, and look how that turned out? Or did you finish the game at all?  I didn't think so.

your level of ignorance astounds, me, i did play through the game. Explain to me how picking a paradigm system(its a stupid system IMHO). is the same as selecting a character and having them to a SPECIFIC action (heal, attack, etc.) it is not the same thing and if thats your idea of deep then so be it.



oniyide said:
BasilZero said:
oniyide said:


the fact that you cant even control your other party members shows that it is not FF style, thats barely RPG style


I agree with this too. The fact that you cant control your other party members was a let down for me as well however FFXIII isnt the first game to implement that though, FFXII also did that and I'm sure all future FF games will be like that.

Alongside the elimination of MP (which I enjoyed), the summon system, and the fact that they heal up your whole HP bar after EACH battle were cons for me in the combat system.

No FF12 didnt do that, well thats a lie it did, but you had the OPTION to control your party members. FF13 was the first game in the main series to not give you that option and that pretty sums up my issues with FF13 as a whole...streamline. Everything was so streamlined combat, the world, hell the characters themselves. It never felt like i was playing a JRPG, it felt like I was playing...hell i dont even know what it was to be honest. Like a dungeon crawler, but a crappy one. And i dont care for dungeon crawlers. But i get how people would enjoy that. I wouldnt even have minded if the story was good, but i found it to be terrible, i hated combat in FF12 but at least the world and characters were interesting (not you Vaan)

it seems like you have a more than a few cons, so im curious to know what about the battle system you liked. Cause i couldnt even enjoy the summons, they felt useless most of the time. FYI Im not trying to trick you into admitting the game was bad or something silly, you at the least attempt to explain why you like it instead of most people blindly defending it.

I loved using Sazh's Eidolon Brynhilder, then Paradigm shift Expoiltation to debuff, and then Aggression until staggered with Sazh's skill Cold Blood, then finish with Cerberus to farm trapezohedron and Platinum Ignots in Eden Hall. The end area with the save spot and 2 sets of guards if you've never played it. There's a certain set of accessory/equipment I used where I could get my TP guage charged back up to 3 (you need at least 3 TP to summon Eidolons and that is the easiest way to drop the Adamantoise there, and after summoning you get full health if he stomped you once. The drop prevents him from attacking your party for a few minutes) and thencontinue to grind that 3 mob circle infinetly to craft all the ultimate weapons and platinum ignots to get my chars rich. I used Lightning Sazh and Fang (fang is cool because she gets a debuff modifier improved debilitation II with the Pandoran Spear/Calamity Spear/ Ultimate Kain's Lance which isn't even necessary but I loved the Ultimate Weapons idea's in this game. You can also use Snow in place of Lightning too because he can have a higher attack and by default has higher hp than lightning can get. Accessorys were like Energy Sashs, Canatalogs, and Certain wepons have TP buff to, but I believe they implement the Stagger lock and that prevents stagger status which is needed because the Adamatoise has tons of health. I believe over 5 million for that one, so not getting a stager lock and the 900% damage increase is mission critical if you want to chop it down for the best drops in the entire game. ;) I probly spent over 10 hours doing that, and it was AWESOME!



BasilZero said:
oniyide said:

No FF12 didnt do that, well thats a lie it did, but you had the OPTION to control your party members. FF13 was the first game in the main series to not give you that option and that pretty sums up my issues with FF13 as a whole...streamline. Everything was so streamlined combat, the world, hell the characters themselves. It never felt like i was playing a JRPG, it felt like I was playing...hell i dont even know what it was to be honest. Like a dungeon crawler, but a crappy one. And i dont care for dungeon crawlers. But i get how people would enjoy that. I wouldnt even have minded if the story was good, but i found it to be terrible, i hated combat in FF12 but at least the world and characters were interesting (not you Vaan)

it seems like you have a more than a few cons, so im curious to know what about the battle system you liked. Cause i couldnt even enjoy the summons, they felt useless most of the time. FYI Im not trying to trick you into admitting the game was bad or something silly, you at the least attempt to explain why you like it instead of most people blindly defending it.


One game leads to another game's development. If you hate FFXIII's gameplay system you are gonna hate FFXV and other future titles XD.

FFX-2 (yes the sequel to FFX) was a pre-cursor to FFXIII's game system.

Playing FFXIII outside of combat I do agree that the world was TOO linear, in FFX you can go back to the locations you went to but in XIII you can go only go back to Gran Pulse lol. XIII-2 they fixed that so that was good.

---

Anyways to answer your question. I'll list the pros and cons of what I thought of the battle system in XIII and XIII-2 (this includes items, accessories setups though cause I like talking about them too ;3).

+ = Pros
- = Cons

+Roles adds to the overall strategy in battles compared to previous FF games, its like playing a MMO, you have your lead DPS (Commando), Magic Damage (Ravager), Tank (Sentinel), Healer (Medic), Buffer (Synergist) and Status Invoker (Sabetour) - although in past FF games aside from Sentinel/Tank (which the defend command came into play) you  can do pretty much the same exact thing.
+Staggering System - added challenge since enemies had a hard defense which you would have to weaken and increased the duration of battles because some enemies require a bit more hits to stagger than others.
+Accessory/weapon system was awesome in XIII where you can customize your equips, make stronger versions. Too bad they removed that in XIII-2.
+TP as a replacement for MP added additional challenge since TP is shared among the party unlike MP - Liked this.
+ATB having a bigger impact on the battle system's speed and precision is great, adds that whole unpredicatability that FF games had prior to FFX's fully turn based combat system. Also the way you can combo enemies with spells and attacks is a nice touch which originated from FFX-2 but not to the same extent.
+Paradigm shift is awesome since you can set up battle style of your characters either in your own fashion or any of the game's pre-set options.
+The monster ally system in XIII-2 was awesome though despite the lack of a third main party member!
+No more random battles

-Summon system is flawed like in XII where you had two of your allies disappear and the summon fought alongside you. The only FF Game that actually did that well was FFX. XII and XIII had a horrible system for it. To be honest, I didnt even use a single summon other than Odin at least ONCE and that was early in game when I had to use him as a tank so I can heal myself XD.
-Summons being exclusive to characters pissed me off. I wanted to use Bahamut but Fang (who I didnt even bother using) had it >_>.
-The fact that you heal HP after each battle made the game a bit easier.
-They removed the Weapon/Accessory system they had in XIII and gave a huge limitation as "WEIGHT" for Accessories in XIII-2.
-If the party leader is KO'd, game over - didnt like that in FFXIII but glad they removed that in XIII-2.
-Not being able to control your entire party.
-The lack of a proper victory theme still pisses me off ;(
-The fact that you dont get gil/monies from defeating monsters in battle (was actually one of the things I hated about FFVIII).
-The lack of a third main character in FFXIII-2
-Sometimes attacks miss and not like an actual "Miss" but they visually miss (I've noticed this in FFX-2's combat as well multiple times).

 

To be honest, the combat, music and the visuals are the top points for me in FFXIII. The story was great but the way the characters presented it not so well - although it did get better in the 2nd half of the game lol. Hope is still one of the worst characters ever made though regardless of how they made him to be in XIII-2. He went from a emo to a generic NPC like side character. Fang's also still forgettable LOL.

No i wont hate ff15 because that game is versus 13 which if im being honest was the game i was already more interested, its just a more over the top Kingdom Hearts...and i LIKE KHs so i dont see how I could hate that game, since it wont play anything like the 13 series. Didnt even bother with 13-2 the plot for 13 didnt put warm feelings in me, and from what ive heard 13-2 is just as bad if not worst.

like an MMO, never thought of that before, that would explain my disdain for the game, I dont like MMOs, matter of fact. STOP trying make your JRPGs into MMOs Square, you have a two money sinks for that. Staggering system is ok, i could have taken it or left it. it didnt add any enjoyment for me but didnt take anything away. Customizing weapons are cool, but thats been done befoere glad they implemented it in FF. I hated the TP, rather MP at least with MP i know my strength progress and im not running around grinding to an invisible number. ATB i get it, i see what they were trying to do, but i didnt like it, the way it was done was kinda all over the place. IMHO it was better done and paced in the older games. I though the Paradigm shift system was terrible, thats just me its no subsitute for actually picking what your characters would do, Id be more forgiving if we at least had the option.

No more random battles is cool.  This is truly a devisive game, you can hate it and be completly valid and love it and be completly valid.



My opinions to your cons in bold. Great observations Basilzero!

BasilZero said:

- = Cons

-Summon system is flawed like in XII where you had two of your allies disappear and the summon fought alongside you. The only FF Game that actually did that well was FFX. XII and XIII had a horrible system for it. To be honest, I didnt even use a single summon other than Odin at least ONCE and that was early in game when I had to use him as a tank so I can heal myself XD.

*Summons and Trap hunting go hand in hand. The only realistic way to craft Ultimate Weapons is using the benefits of Eidolons and farming trapz and ignots.

-Summons being exclusive to characters pissed me off. I wanted to use Bahamut but Fang (who I didnt even bother using) had it >_>.

*Better imho than giving everyone the same skillset imho. The characters in FFXIII all have area's they specialize in Hope =Healing/Magic Damage.  Lightning= Balanced but awesome attacker. Snow Damage+Health+Sentinel. Fang High Health+Debuffing. Vanille Sabotuer only char with Death and Medic, I just touched on a few areas. I absolutely hate it when every party member can become an all in one god of all trades, it bores me to death. Party teamwork is not needed then, and the characters become generic. Yet switching them around would have been neat, yet if you pay attention to the story Ragnarok and Fang have a huge part when it comes to the final battle and game ending scene, but they could have worked it in that way if as you say everyone had the ability to summon. But I think Ragnarok and Fangs focus are inseperable plotline wise. Which is probably why the games creators went that route.

-The fact that you heal HP after each battle made the game a bit easier.

*I think that is great because it brings less tedious micromanaging to the system. Healing and using potions after the mjority of fights gets old in RPGs for myself.

-If the party leader is KO'd, game over - didnt like that in FFXIII but glad they removed that in XIII-2.

*I think it adds more challenge especially in boss fights like Orphan. I loved it just knowing that I can get completely wasted if I get lazy had me on the edge of my seat for that final set of battles. I love that feeling!

-Not being able to control your entire party.

*With paradigms you control every character, but in a way you don't specifically control each and every decision specifically. But the + side is that you basically can if you pay close attention and learn how it functions.

-The lack of a proper victory theme still pisses me off ;(

*You're right that was missing.

-The fact that you dont get gil/monies from defeating monsters in battle (was actually one of the things I hated about FFVIII).

*I'm on the fence on that, but it would have made upgrading your weapons and accessories far easier and exciting in the early stages of the game. So it probly should be listed as a con. Instead it's kinda more end game oriented and post game oriented. 





BasilZero said:
FinalFantasyXIII said:

My opinions to your cons in bold. Good observations Basilzero!




Nice :D

 

Also speaking of Orphan....I had a HARD time fighting him LOL. Mostly cause his Death skill one shotted my controlled character almost always first time.

So I had to craft that one accessory which gave me immunity or close to immunity to his death skill (forgot the name) - took me a while cause I had to travel the last dungeon all over again. I killed him in the most cheapest of ways and it took me half an hour XD.

He died via Poisoning LOL.

I'm pretty sure it wont be like the next time I play the game, next time I play FFXIII I wanna record it!


I used Army of One to build the chain guage and stagger him fast and healed like a mofo. P: That doom counter had me stressin out yo! I think he kicked my butt a couple times before I got around to figuring him out. That game definetly deserves a well seasoned player to LP it and explain the intricasies of the combat system, I think it is the most mis-understood RPG battle system in existence.