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Forums - Politics Discussion - United States of America + Canada?

 

Should the two countries become one?

Yes - Canada should join the United States 52 17.39%
 
Yes - through an EU-styled agreement 42 14.05%
 
Yes - through some other means 3 1.00%
 
No - though I support fur... 109 36.45%
 
No - the two countries ar... 68 22.74%
 
Other/Not Sure 17 5.69%
 
Total:291

I visited canada last summer an I thought the country was great and it was really beautiful. It seemed really similar to the us, but the differences between the two countries are great enough that I wouldn't want them to see them integrated. I wouldn't want either if these countries to lose what made them unique.



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Adinnieken said:
allenmaher said:
Speaking as a Canadian, I am 100% opposed to any union or annexation into the US. While on the surface the two countries may seem similar there are very profound differences. For one, not all of Canada is English speaking, we have two official languages French and English, which would not likely be carried forward into any sort of union of Canada and the US. This would further exacerbate Quebec tensions and lead to further independence talk. While some parts of Canada would blend in rather seamlessly, such as the prairie provinces, other regions would not find the transition easy, or to their liking. Ontario was settled by United Empire Loyalists the disaffected and displaced of the American revolution, and tends toward anti-Americanism. The east coast provinces have more in common with UK culture than american culture.

Americans would also not likely welcome 10 new states that in american political terms would give the Democrats a virtual lock on the senate and shift the balance of power in the house perpetually in the democrats favour (80% of Canadians would vote democrat in a two party system if they had to choose when asked in a survey). Gay marriage is legal here and has been for a decade, prostitution laws were recently struck down, and women have the right to go topless. The current conservative government is in their last term in office following which decriminalization of marijuana is almost assured as well as many other liberal reforms that would unnerve much of the US. Then take into account universal health care, well funded public schools, gun control, and other differences that most of the US is not prepared to deal with.

The US is great, I have travelled and worked in most of the continental US over the years. A very friendly people almost without exception... but I think we are better off as friends and neighbours. Do you really want a country with an officially socialist official opposition party (the party that got the second most votes in the last election, yes I am a member of that party) as part of your political milieux?

You forget about Lousianna.  French territory that integrated into the US without a problem.  The French in Lousianna just said "Fuck it!" and created Creole.  Possibly just to spite the English speaking American's.  "You want us to speak English?  No.  We'll speak English and French together at the same time."  If you only know English, you won't understand it.  If you sort of know French, you won't get it.  If you only know French, you too won't understand, but you'll understand more than those English.

As well, we have communities of Amish (Germans) across the country that live in relative isolation speaking only German.  We buy up Amish stuff like crazy all the time.  Amish goods are a cottage industry.  Heck, if you believe the bullshit marketing by some companies, they're even responsible for making super fancy electric space heaters.

So, despite displacing and killing off thousands of Native Americans, I'm sure if the US and Canada integrated together, millions of French Canadians would have nothing to fear.  I mean, how fertile is Quebec anyway?  How long is the growing season?  Are the French Canadian's absolutely opposed to moving to Alberta?  I hear it's a wonderful place to live visit in the Summer.

While the American integration of the old centers of Nouvelle France was fairly problem free.  Most people forget that Detroit was Fort Ponchartrain du Détroit but at the time of assimilation it was only at best a few thousand settlers who were quickly outnumbered by new setler groups. Nouvelle-Orléans passed through multiple hands including Spain along the way to becoming a part of the US.  Quebec is a very large population of predominantly french speaking and nationalistic people, about 8 million (aprox 80% french) nearly half of which voted for separation to create an independant nation in 1995 (I lived there and voted at the time). They have a sovereigtist government right now in an officially bilingual country.  In a unilingual country like a US Canada union... they would vote to separate in a heartbeat.  Thier biggest fear is cultural assimilation in an overwhelmingly english speaking North America (listen to any Parti Quebecquois speaches in the last few decades).

For the record Quebec has a very active agricultural base, and has since the early 1600's.



As a Canadian (although formerly dutch) no thanks. Open borders is fine, although I guess the biggest problem there is the difference in fire arm laws, so not feasible I'm afraid. A common currency is already one step too far, no Euro nonsense please. The US dollar is just living on borrowed time.
But sure if Americans can give up their firearms and get rid of the debt then they're welcome to join us :)



SvennoJ said:
As a Canadian (although formerly dutch) no thanks. Open borders is fine, although I guess the biggest problem there is the difference in fire arm laws, so not feasible I'm afraid. A common currency is already one step too far, no Euro nonsense please. The US dollar is just living on borrowed time.
But sure if Americans can give up their firearms and get rid of the debt then they're welcome to join us :)


Firearms is just one of the biggest issues,  Canada allows for socialism.   Not just in health care, but utilities, insurance, transportation.

Then you have quebec who would NEVER go along with it.  Then you have Natives who would NEVER go along with it.  Then you have the rest of the poulation that doesnt want to live with US laws and would never go along with it.  We dont want the DEA, and we dont want to spend more money on military than anything else. 

then combining the monetary systems would be a disaster and no one north of the border wants to take on the US debt problem. 

 

Usually i see this idea pop up from people who have no clue what they are talking about and dont know shit about canada. (americans)



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

allenmaher said:
Marks said:
No, please no. I don't want things like the NSA, FBI, TSA, etc. in Canada if we joined countries.

NSA+FBI = CSIS and CSE 
http://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/index-eng.html
https://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/index-eng.asp

TSA = TSBC
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/

Similar agencies in both countries I am afraid.


Damn I didn't know that. Thanks for the links



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DD_Bwest said:
SvennoJ said:
As a Canadian (although formerly dutch) no thanks. Open borders is fine, although I guess the biggest problem there is the difference in fire arm laws, so not feasible I'm afraid. A common currency is already one step too far, no Euro nonsense please. The US dollar is just living on borrowed time.
But sure if Americans can give up their firearms and get rid of the debt then they're welcome to join us :)


Firearms is just one of the biggest issues,  Canada allows for socialism.   Not just in health care, but utilities, insurance, transportation.

Then you have quebec who would NEVER go along with it.  Then you have Natives who would NEVER go along with it.  Then you have the rest of the poulation that doesnt want to live with US laws and would never go along with it.  We dont want the DEA, and we dont want to spend more money on military than anything else. 

then combining the monetary systems would be a disaster and no one north of the border wants to take on the US debt problem. 

 

Usually i see this idea pop up from people who have no clue what they are talking about and dont know shit about canada. (americans)

That's why I said, welcome to join us (Canadians) doesn't mean we're going to live with US laws. Most states don't have the same laws anyway.
But yes, there are fundamental differences in government, anything more then open trade is not going to work.



SvennoJ said:
DD_Bwest said:
SvennoJ said:
As a Canadian (although formerly dutch) no thanks. Open borders is fine, although I guess the biggest problem there is the difference in fire arm laws, so not feasible I'm afraid. A common currency is already one step too far, no Euro nonsense please. The US dollar is just living on borrowed time.
But sure if Americans can give up their firearms and get rid of the debt then they're welcome to join us :)


Firearms is just one of the biggest issues,  Canada allows for socialism.   Not just in health care, but utilities, insurance, transportation.

Then you have quebec who would NEVER go along with it.  Then you have Natives who would NEVER go along with it.  Then you have the rest of the poulation that doesnt want to live with US laws and would never go along with it.  We dont want the DEA, and we dont want to spend more money on military than anything else. 

then combining the monetary systems would be a disaster and no one north of the border wants to take on the US debt problem. 

 

Usually i see this idea pop up from people who have no clue what they are talking about and dont know shit about canada. (americans)

That's why I said, welcome to join us (Canadians) doesn't mean we're going to live with US laws. Most states don't have the same laws anyway.
But yes, there are fundamental differences in government, anything more then open trade is not going to work.

Yup, Sorry i just sort of used yours as a jumping point. :) 



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

This would be good. Our country is so sparsely populated and most of our population lives near the border with the US. If uniting both countries sees an increase in population then that would be good. The US won't really gain much from taking us over though besides our endless amount of resources. Most of our land is uninhabitable and also too cold. Our taxes are higher and everything is more expensive here, however we do have free health care and uniting both countries might see the end of that so that won't be good. I can guarantee though that if both countries united, then our provinces would see a decrease in population since people would leave Canada for lower taxes and lower housing prices in the States.

If Canadian provinces were allowed to continue with their current laws and system and still be part of the States then I agree it should happen.

Opening the border would also be good, but again, people would leave Canada for lower costs in the US. It is much easier to immigrate to Canada then the United States, and I would assume people would use easier Canadian immigration laws as a method of getting into the States. 



    

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MoHasanie said:

This would be good. Our country is so sparsely populated and most of our population lives near the border with the US. If uniting both countries sees an increase in population then that would be good. The US won't really gain much from taking us over though besides our endless amount of resources. Most of our land is uninhabitable and also too cold. Our taxes are higher and everything is more expensive here, however we do have free health care and uniting both countries might see the end of that so that won't be good. I can guarantee though that if both countries united, then our provinces would see a decrease in population since people would leave Canada for lower taxes and lower housing prices in the States.

If Canadian provinces were allowed to continue with their current laws and system and still be part of the States then I agree it should happen.

Opening the border would also be good, but again, people would leave Canada for lower costs in the US. It is much easier to immigrate to Canada then the United States, and I would assume people would use easier Canadian immigration laws as a method of getting into the States. 


Resources, land, a well-educated population - these are some of the things the U.S. stands to gain. I'm not sure that Canada would see a decrease in population.  Some may want to leave, but some Americans may want to move there (I'd love to live in the Toronto area, for instance)- and I'm sure that the Canadian provinces would find ways to be competitive. Canada stands to gain influence over the politics of the world's most powerful country, and access to its land, infrastructure, and institutions. It's really a win-win.



NolSinkler said:
MoHasanie said:

This would be good. Our country is so sparsely populated and most of our population lives near the border with the US. If uniting both countries sees an increase in population then that would be good. The US won't really gain much from taking us over though besides our endless amount of resources. Most of our land is uninhabitable and also too cold. Our taxes are higher and everything is more expensive here, however we do have free health care and uniting both countries might see the end of that so that won't be good. I can guarantee though that if both countries united, then our provinces would see a decrease in population since people would leave Canada for lower taxes and lower housing prices in the States.

If Canadian provinces were allowed to continue with their current laws and system and still be part of the States then I agree it should happen.

Opening the border would also be good, but again, people would leave Canada for lower costs in the US. It is much easier to immigrate to Canada then the United States, and I would assume people would use easier Canadian immigration laws as a method of getting into the States. 


Resources, land, a well-educated population - these are some of the things the U.S. stands to gain. I'm not sure that Canada would see a decrease in population.  Some may want to leave, but some Americans may want to move there (I'd love to live in the Toronto area, for instance)- and I'm sure that the Canadian provinces would find ways to be competitive. Canada stands to gain influence over the politics of the world's most powerful country, and access to its land, infrastructure, and institutions. It's really a win-win.

Influence over American politics? Seriously? Get real man, that's about as win-win as handing over all your property to another player in Monopoly. The White House isn't about to start letting a country 10xs less their population to have any significant power, Washington is going to run this show. I can't see why Canadians would want to give up their political and national freedom for access to things we already have because of trade. The only real advantage for Canada is access to pure military might but NATO is a fine alternative.