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Forums - Microsoft - Looming question: Will XB1 be able to close the gap to PS4 in holiday 2014's big multiplatform games?

kitler53 on 03 January 2014
thx1139 said:
kitler53 said:
imo, depends on how well xbone sells relative to ps4.

if ps4 dominates the market it will be the lead platform for development and xbone will get shitty ports because MS will be in a weak position. if xbone can keep pace with ps4 developers will put more effort in because MS will demand parity and will have a stronger position to negotiate/mandate.

2014 games are already deep in development so lead platform is already established and likely the lead is no lead at all.  Also believe that resolution comparisons between X1 and PS4 amount to a pissing contest and for 90% of the buying public it will not matter one bit.


..it is the last 12-6 months where platform specific optimization occurs so we're entering the important phase for how holiday 2014 games will look on xbone.   ps4 (from the few games that divulge the information) has been the lead platform.   if xbox has disappointing sales it will recieve disappointing amounts of investment (aka platform optimization aka polish) too. 

 

but if you think it's just a pissing contest please enjoy your premium priced downgrades.  ;)



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pokoko on 03 January 2014
JoeTheBro said:
Should be the opposite actually. The difference in power is only going to get worse over the course of the generation. Especially if PS4 dominates in sales.

Well, assuming that the XO's sales stay reasonally close in North America, won't the larger publishers be concerned about making a good chunk of their user-base angry?

Though, thinking about it now, that anger didn't seem to hurt CoD sales when the PS3 got an inferior version of Black Ops.  It's possible that they won't stress too much over a PS4 version that's somewhat better.



TheLastStarFighter on 03 January 2014
lt_dan_27 said:
fallen said:

Title says it all. This is the question I think.

This year we had COD Ghosts (720/1080) AC4 (900/1080) and BF4 (720/900) show notable resolution differences, even if no real graphical differences. Three of the biggest recurring franchises in gaming.

Many other games like NBA2K14, Fifa 14, and NFS Rivals were 1080P on both and nearly identical. However note these were somewhat less demanding games arguably.

So will the gap close or grow in 2014?

 

I definitely say close. I even venture that eventually all major multiplatforms will be the same resolution on both.

 

I think developers will learn the Xbox better, with it's more complicated ESRAM setup it will take more time to learn. In addition, I feel MS will streamline the XBO drivers and reduce OS reservations to gain more performance (because they have to, lest be mocked by PS4, I imagine this is an area of concern within MS and thus they will work hard on it). Thuway says a January XBO update already gains 10% performance. Plus, the usual way of multiplatforms is parity, it's always easier on the developer (note even 2013 XBO versions with less resolution are otherwise mostly identical graphically to the PS4 versions, proving the point of so called "lazy devs").


You're funny. the xbox and ps4 will probably both make their OS more efficient. But let me break down the power for you. It's not speculated that the ps4's CPU is clocked at 2ghz vs the xbox one's 1.75. They're essentially the same cpu, so that's a 14% plus over the xbox one. The gpu's are 1.84tflops vs 1.23tflops. Which creates is a 49.6% difference. The PS4's memory bandwidth is about 3 times higher than the xbox one's. On top of all of this, the ps4 has a seondary chip that takes care of side tasks during gaming. On top of this, 10% of X1's power is reserved for the kinnect. So, with all of this, the only thing the x1 has over the ps4 is 32MB esram. Let me put 32mb in perspective for you. The xbox one's total pool of ram has 8224MB of ram. That means the esram makes up a woping .39% of the system's total ram. The esram isn't even that much faster the the ps4's gddr5 either. I think it's 170GBps  vs 190GBps. So about an 11% differnce in speed. Also, if you want to keep telling yourself the resolution makes no noticable difference, you can keep telling yourself that. It's pretty easy to see if you have eyes. Why do you think most PC gamers will lower other settings to get a higher resolution? It makes the most noticable difference. Also, all of those games you mentioned with the ps4 having a higher resotuioin, the resolution isn't the only difference. Look at screenshots of the ps4 and xbox one versions of BF4. The xbox one version has lower res, less AA, lower texture details, washed out shadows. This is also applicable for every game you mentioned. And those are details I could spot from compressed videos. That means the difference in graphics is even easier to tell in person because it will make the better graphics look worse because it can't show as much detail from it. So if you want to keep fooling yourself into believing that the eSRAM is going to make the xbox one twice as powerful, you can keep fooling yourself into believing that. 

This comment indicates that you have no idea what ESRAM is, how fast it is, or what it's used for.



fallen on 03 January 2014
lt_dan_27 said:
fallen said:

Title says it all. This is the question I think.

This year we had COD Ghosts (720/1080) AC4 (900/1080) and BF4 (720/900) show notable resolution differences, even if no real graphical differences. Three of the biggest recurring franchises in gaming.

Many other games like NBA2K14, Fifa 14, and NFS Rivals were 1080P on both and nearly identical. However note these were somewhat less demanding games arguably.

So will the gap close or grow in 2014?

 

I definitely say close. I even venture that eventually all major multiplatforms will be the same resolution on both.

 

I think developers will learn the Xbox better, with it's more complicated ESRAM setup it will take more time to learn. In addition, I feel MS will streamline the XBO drivers and reduce OS reservations to gain more performance (because they have to, lest be mocked by PS4, I imagine this is an area of concern within MS and thus they will work hard on it). Thuway says a January XBO update already gains 10% performance. Plus, the usual way of multiplatforms is parity, it's always easier on the developer (note even 2013 XBO versions with less resolution are otherwise mostly identical graphically to the PS4 versions, proving the point of so called "lazy devs").


You're funny. the xbox and ps4 will probably both make their OS more efficient. But let me break down the power for you. It's not speculated that the ps4's CPU is clocked at 2ghz vs the xbox one's 1.75. They're essentially the same cpu, so that's a 14% plus over the xbox one. The gpu's are 1.84tflops vs 1.23tflops. Which creates is a 49.6% difference. The PS4's memory bandwidth is about 3 times higher than the xbox one's. On top of all of this, the ps4 has a seondary chip that takes care of side tasks during gaming. On top of this, 10% of X1's power is reserved for the kinnect. So, with all of this, the only thing the x1 has over the ps4 is 32MB esram. Let me put 32mb in perspective for you. The xbox one's total pool of ram has 8224MB of ram. That means the esram makes up a woping .39% of the system's total ram. The esram isn't even that much faster the the ps4's gddr5 either. I think it's 170GBps  vs 190GBps. So about an 11% differnce in speed. Also, if you want to keep telling yourself the resolution makes no noticable difference, you can keep telling yourself that. It's pretty easy to see if you have eyes. Why do you think most PC gamers will lower other settings to get a higher resolution? It makes the most noticable difference. Also, all of those games you mentioned with the ps4 having a higher resotuioin, the resolution isn't the only difference. Look at screenshots of the ps4 and xbox one versions of BF4. The xbox one version has lower res, less AA, lower texture details, washed out shadows. This is also applicable for every game you mentioned. And those are details I could spot from compressed videos. That means the difference in graphics is even easier to tell in person because it will make the better graphics look worse because it can't show as much detail from it. So if you want to keep fooling yourself into believing that the eSRAM is going to make the xbox one twice as powerful, you can keep fooling yourself into believing that. 

PS4 CPU is 1.6. Confirmed fact actually. Xbox One's CPU is more powerful.

 


 

"The xbox one version has lower res, less AA, lower texture details, washed out shadows."

 

LOL, OK. PS4 has superiorities without you having to make more up...the assets are nearly identical in every case, save sometimes for some AA differences in favor of PS4.

 

"Let me put 32mb in perspective for you. The xbox one's total pool of ram has 8224MB of ram. That means the esram makes up a woping .39% of the system's total ram. The esram isn't even that much faster the the ps4's gddr5 either. I think it's 170GBps  vs 190GBps. So about an 11%"

 

ESRAM has a hypothetical peak of 204 GB/s, in addition to 68 GB/s of main RAM, since the GPU can read both, this is 272 GB/s peak BW for XBO, far more than PS4 offers, and more than twice as much on a per FLOP basis.

Yes the RAM is a small pool, but you put frequently used high bandwidth data in there and take a huge load off the main bus. Believe me they wouldn't have bothered if it wasn't extremely useful.

This small cache of high speed RAM is so effective it's actually the norm in console design. PS2, Xbox 360, Gamecube, Wii, WiiU, and XBOX One to name a few all use this memory topography. PS4 and 2001 Xbox are two that have a unified high speed pool, they are the outliers.

ERP, a developer who helped design PS4, already stated on Beyond3D forum that PS4 OS reserves are similar to Xbox Ones. The myth that Xbox one has gigantic reserves for Kinect/Snap/whatever is just that. Do you know when a trophy notification or friend message pops up on your PS4 in game, that requires a GPU reservation? Amazing I know.

 

If all the stuff you were saying is really true (basically that X1 is total garbage), why does Ryse look as good as any game on PS4? Why do all the multiplatforms look the same besides resolution? Why does many games like NFS, NBA2K, Fifa, Madden, Tomb Raider, ruin in 1080P on both and look basically identical?

PS4 seems more powerful than X1, but the cdifference is not that great and X1 has advantages too.



TheLastStarFighter on 03 January 2014

It really depends on sales. If PS4 continues to lead XBOne in sales - and I think it will - PS4 will get the lead version of games and One will get downgraded, lazy ports. If XBOne is the market leader - as 360 was for most of gen 7 - then devs probably will put less effort into maximizing PS4's extra juice. Make no mistake, the PS4 is measurably more powerful than XBOne. Sales will likely determine developer effort and result.

Of course, XBOne games will look better. There's no question that the One can make better images than were done in the first round when devs have more time.



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JoeTheBro on 03 January 2014
pokoko said:
JoeTheBro said:
Should be the opposite actually. The difference in power is only going to get worse over the course of the generation. Especially if PS4 dominates in sales.

Well, assuming that the XO's sales stay reasonally close in North America, won't the larger publishers be concerned about making a good chunk of their user-base angry?

Though, thinking about it now, that anger didn't seem to hurt CoD sales when the PS3 got an inferior version of Black Ops.  It's possible that they won't stress too much over a PS4 version that's somewhat better.


It's not that they'd make the games look bad on XBOX, it's just that they'd make them look even better on PS4.



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lt_dan_27 on 03 January 2014
TheLastStarFighter said:
lt_dan_27 said:
fallen said:

Title says it all. This is the question I think.

This year we had COD Ghosts (720/1080) AC4 (900/1080) and BF4 (720/900) show notable resolution differences, even if no real graphical differences. Three of the biggest recurring franchises in gaming.

Many other games like NBA2K14, Fifa 14, and NFS Rivals were 1080P on both and nearly identical. However note these were somewhat less demanding games arguably.

So will the gap close or grow in 2014?

 

I definitely say close. I even venture that eventually all major multiplatforms will be the same resolution on both.

 

I think developers will learn the Xbox better, with it's more complicated ESRAM setup it will take more time to learn. In addition, I feel MS will streamline the XBO drivers and reduce OS reservations to gain more performance (because they have to, lest be mocked by PS4, I imagine this is an area of concern within MS and thus they will work hard on it). Thuway says a January XBO update already gains 10% performance. Plus, the usual way of multiplatforms is parity, it's always easier on the developer (note even 2013 XBO versions with less resolution are otherwise mostly identical graphically to the PS4 versions, proving the point of so called "lazy devs").


You're funny. the xbox and ps4 will probably both make their OS more efficient. But let me break down the power for you. It's not speculated that the ps4's CPU is clocked at 2ghz vs the xbox one's 1.75. They're essentially the same cpu, so that's a 14% plus over the xbox one. The gpu's are 1.84tflops vs 1.23tflops. Which creates is a 49.6% difference. The PS4's memory bandwidth is about 3 times higher than the xbox one's. On top of all of this, the ps4 has a seondary chip that takes care of side tasks during gaming. On top of this, 10% of X1's power is reserved for the kinnect. So, with all of this, the only thing the x1 has over the ps4 is 32MB esram. Let me put 32mb in perspective for you. The xbox one's total pool of ram has 8224MB of ram. That means the esram makes up a woping .39% of the system's total ram. The esram isn't even that much faster the the ps4's gddr5 either. I think it's 170GBps  vs 190GBps. So about an 11% differnce in speed. Also, if you want to keep telling yourself the resolution makes no noticable difference, you can keep telling yourself that. It's pretty easy to see if you have eyes. Why do you think most PC gamers will lower other settings to get a higher resolution? It makes the most noticable difference. Also, all of those games you mentioned with the ps4 having a higher resotuioin, the resolution isn't the only difference. Look at screenshots of the ps4 and xbox one versions of BF4. The xbox one version has lower res, less AA, lower texture details, washed out shadows. This is also applicable for every game you mentioned. And those are details I could spot from compressed videos. That means the difference in graphics is even easier to tell in person because it will make the better graphics look worse because it can't show as much detail from it. So if you want to keep fooling yourself into believing that the eSRAM is going to make the xbox one twice as powerful, you can keep fooling yourself into believing that. 

This comment indicates that you have no idea what ESRAM is, how fast it is, or what it's used for.


I'm putting into persectve how little influence it actually will be. The esram will probably be used for frame buffers and fxaa. Sorry, I was off by 2gb/s, 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-memory-better-in-production-hardware



vivster on 03 January 2014

I think the gap will stay the same but most of X1's games will come with 1080p. They should've realized by now that that is an important buzzword. So they will put more importance on the resolution but will cut the less noticeable graphics to achieve this.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

JoeTheBro on 03 January 2014
shikamaru317 said:
The gap will close some by Holiday 2014. For starters, the gap isn't as big as it appears to be to start with, many of those early games that had resolution gaps were rushed and there were rumors of late development tools for the Xbox One which held back development of the Xbox One versions of games. Secondly, the Xbox One has overclocking head room, currently the Xbox One runs both cool and quiet and has a very large fan, it seems likely to me that the developers specifically designed the Xbox One that way so that it would have overclocking headroom in the future. There are already rumors from an industry insider of a 10% overclock coming via a driver update in the next few weeks, such an overclock would close the gap between the PS4 and Xbox One and all it would take is a small increase in fan speed to handle the extra heat produced by the overclock. Thirdly, the Xbox One's CPU is already rumored to be faster than the PS4's (1.75ghz vs. 1.6ghz), assuming that they plan to overclock the CPU and the GPU with this upcoming driver, that 10% overclock would increase the Xbox One's CPU clock speed to 1.925 ghz, this means that any games which are CPU bound may actually look better on the Xbox One (for instance Skyrim was a CPU bound game, assuming that Bethesda uses the same engine for Fallout 4, which is rumored, it could possibly run better on the Xbox One).

In a situation that may or may not be reality of the XBONE having a better CPU than the PS4, that doesn't necessarily mean the XBONE has an overall advantage in processing data traditionally handled by the CPU. The PS4's GPU is designed to act as a CPU in some circumstances. In an ideal situation using the GPU for CPU tasks does not take away from the GPU's power associated to traditional GPU tasks. I don't believe any devs have bothered to do this yet since it's far from trivial, but hypothetically it makes the PS4 CPU essentially stronger.

 

Basically it makes the PS4 balanced. The PS4 has a much stronger GPU than the XBONE and much stronger RAM than the XBONE, so naturally you'd expect it to have a much stronger CPU than the XBONE.

 

I apologize for how confusing I have to be. I want to talk about these things but I can't give any hint on what the CPU's actual clock is.



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KingdomHeartsFan on 03 January 2014

Well if the gap is this big when it comes to multiplats with the last gen, it could be really bad when developers start making games specifically for this gen and they are alot more demanding.  Also developers are gonna learn to better use the PS4 too, not just the X1.  If X1 starts to significantly fall behind the PS4 in sales I see developers using PS4 as the lead platform and making the best version for that while the X1 gets a subpar port.