By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - ioi speaks out about ergh "VGC analysts"

Shinobi-san on 01 January 2014
Yakuzaice said:
Shinobi-san said:

Its got nothing to do with the numbers. Vgchartz has been banned on GAF since its inception. This is because of a fallout between ioi and GAF.

Please stop making as if this has something to do with the numbers...

I might be misremembering because it has been years, but didn't ioi start out posting his estimates on GAF before making VGC?  It definitely has to do with the numbers.

It does seem like certainty in the numbers has decayed over the years.  4-5 years ago the official line seemed to always be that the numbers were within 10% of NPD and the like.

Based on the threads here going back years...i remember the beef going deeper than just numbers.

There seems to be some issue between ioi and one of the GAF higher ups (Evilore?). GAF is awfully hostile to any mention of Vgc, a bit overly harsh for a free site that just gives out sales estimations dont you think? Its not like Vgcharts proclaims its numbers to be the most reliable numbers ever.

But meh i probably dont know the full story either...but im certain that their current/official reason for banning any mention of Vgchartz is not THEE reason why it is banned.



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Around the Network
Zod95 on 01 January 2014
Max King of the Wild said:

And years ago a developer (forgot which one) said that people shouldn't take VGC seriously because VGC numbers of their games were way off. I want to say it was Factor 5/Free Radical or something. That was the begining of when I started to stop taking SW sales to mean anything.

Ok Max, then please tell me: in your opinion, what does VGChartz do differently from its "competitors" (similar services like Media Create, Famistu, Box Office Mojo, BARB, etc.) that makes it exceptionable/unreliable and why such differences are key to the reputation and credibility of the system?



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Max King of the Wild on 01 January 2014
Zod95 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

And years ago a developer (forgot which one) said that people shouldn't take VGC seriously because VGC numbers of their games were way off. I want to say it was Factor 5/Free Radical or something. That was the begining of when I started to stop taking SW sales to mean anything.

Ok Max, then please tell me: in your opinion, what does VGChartz do differently from its "competitors" (similar services like Media Create, Famistu, Box Office Mojo, BARB, etc.) that makes it exceptionable/unreliable and why such differences are key to the reputation and credibility of the system?

I knew I would remember eventually. It was Capcom who said it in late 2008 early 2009. The reason I said it was the other two because I remember it was after a financial bomb. I was thinking it was a Ps3 title but I'm thinking it was a Wii title now and Capcom sad they didnt even ship as much as VGC said were sold.

What do they do differently? They report in territories they have absolutely no data for because they try to report global numbers. Their competitors report in specifc markets. Their competitors have much more resources (man power, money and data) for smaller areas.



kirby007 on 01 January 2014
Max King of the Wild said:
Zod95 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

And years ago a developer (forgot which one) said that people shouldn't take VGC seriously because VGC numbers of their games were way off. I want to say it was Factor 5/Free Radical or something. That was the begining of when I started to stop taking SW sales to mean anything.

Ok Max, then please tell me: in your opinion, what does VGChartz do differently from its "competitors" (similar services like Media Create, Famistu, Box Office Mojo, BARB, etc.) that makes it exceptionable/unreliable and why such differences are key to the reputation and credibility of the system?

I knew I would remember eventually. It was Capcom who said it in late 2008 early 2009. The reason I said it was the other two because I remember it was after a financial bomb. I was thinking it was a Ps3 title but I'm thinking it was a Wii title now and Capcom sad they didnt even ship as much as VGC said were sold.

What do they do differently? They report in territories they have absolutely no data for because they try to report global numbers. Their competitors report in specifc markets. Their competitors have much more resources (man power, money and data) for smaller areas.

everybody is wrong sometimes, and i would like to see a source here



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Max King of the Wild on 01 January 2014
kirby007 said:

everybody is wrong sometimes, and i would like to see a source here


It was Sven from Capcom. It was concerning Zack and Wiki and Okami on Wii. It was a while ago the articles have been removed.

 

""Lastly, Okami Wii is not on track to outsell the PS2 version. The worldwide Okami Wii number might get to the US Okami PS2 number at some point though. Seriously guys, just stop trying to use VGchartz or whatever you read on Neogaf to be armchair analysts."

A bit snarky of Svennson, but there we have it. Looks like this site needs to improve its numbers..."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=1725146



Around the Network
kirby007 on 01 January 2014
Max King of the Wild said:
kirby007 said:

everybody is wrong sometimes, and i would like to see a source here


It was Sven from Capcom. It was concerning Zack and Wiki and Okami on Wii. It was a while ago the articles have been removed.

 

""Lastly, Okami Wii is not on track to outsell the PS2 version. The worldwide Okami Wii number might get to the US Okami PS2 number at some point though. Seriously guys, just stop trying to use VGchartz or whatever you read on Neogaf to be armchair analysts."

A bit snarky of Svennson, but there we have it. Looks like this site needs to improve its numbers..."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=1725146


meh, that guy is sort of right, software sales of older consoles aren't that accurate doesn't mean the wii numbers for that game were wrong tho



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Max King of the Wild on 01 January 2014
kirby007 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
kirby007 said:

everybody is wrong sometimes, and i would like to see a source here


It was Sven from Capcom. It was concerning Zack and Wiki and Okami on Wii. It was a while ago the articles have been removed.

 

""Lastly, Okami Wii is not on track to outsell the PS2 version. The worldwide Okami Wii number might get to the US Okami PS2 number at some point though. Seriously guys, just stop trying to use VGchartz or whatever you read on Neogaf to be armchair analysts."

A bit snarky of Svennson, but there we have it. Looks like this site needs to improve its numbers..."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=1725146


meh, that guy is sort of right, software sales of older consoles aren't that accurate doesn't mean the wii numbers for that game were wrong tho


Hes talking about Wii sales. And he isn't just talking about these two games here. He is talking about the entire site. This is coming straight from a Capcom employee in 2009



kirby007 on 01 January 2014

from that statement of his, I can't derive what you are saying.
On top of that a capcom (internetthuff ) guy is gospel and microsoft employees aren't? BRAVO



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Max King of the Wild on 01 January 2014
kirby007 said:
from that statement of his, I can't derive what you are saying.
On top of that a capcom (internetthuff ) guy is gospel and microsoft employees aren't? BRAVO

That is when I seriously started doubting VGC SW numbers. He said a lot worse about VGC and said the numbers werent even close.

As for the your non point. Completely different scenario. Capcom dude is out right denying numbers which makes them look worse. MS employees hardly directly say anything and are trying to make their product look better. If MS said VGC had heavily overtracked Halo then yes, I'd believe them



kirby007 on 01 January 2014
Max King of the Wild said:
kirby007 said:
from that statement of his, I can't derive what you are saying.
On top of that a capcom (internetthuff ) guy is gospel and microsoft employees aren't? BRAVO

That is when I seriously started doubting VGC SW numbers. He said a lot worse about VGC and said the numbers werent even close.

As for the your non point. Completely different scenario. Capcom dude is out right denying numbers which makes them look worse. MS employees hardly directly say anything and are trying to make their product look better. If MS said VGC had heavily overtracked Halo then yes, I'd believe them

more links to that? can't find them in that thread or passed it while skimming

because i have several issues:
1. which numbers weren't close the wii sales numbers ( which would make him right, back then almost 5 years ago ) or the ps2 numbers ( which wouldn't take away on vgc credibility )?
2. And as much as devs like to claim they know the figure of their games, i severly doubt they know much more then total copies created

 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.