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Forums - Politics - Happy 100th birthday Federal Reserve

Kasz216 said:
hysterianut said:
Kasz216 said:

People don't like the fed. I get that...

I don't see a better option however.

an asset based currency like the gold standard seems impossible in the modern world... and countries without central banks or that have had direct government control of them have been unmitigated disasters who end up selling out a countries long term future almost immediatly to get out of short term debt/be able to short term spend.

The Fed is really just like the Supreme court, and is independent for the same reasons. (Those who think it's not a government organization and is privately owned generally don't know what they're talking about... )


what do you mean by modern world?

technology changes but the fundementals remain the same

the central bank can be there but it should be under the tresury not above it controlled by international bankers.

and gold standard can easily function,it limits money printing.

 

all empires in history have had gold standard and still been empires and able to expand.

 

all FED and all the world organistions do is allow government spending on welfare state and they are taking the entire world into world communism,nothing else.

the entire economy today is rigged,not jst US economy but the entire world's economy.it is one big ponzi scheme

A)  A world in which the value of growth in services, virtual goods an manufactured products FAR exceeds the amount of hard resources required to value them.

B)  The Federal Reserve isn't controlled by international bankers.  The President elects the people who run the Federal Reserve.  Bankers and people with finance degress are often chosen because well... people with banking and finance degrees tend to know the most about   It's like complaining that a doctor was made surgeon general.

C)  There have been more products and wealth created in like... the last 20-30 years or so then have been created in the rest of human history.

A) The value of gold is determined by demand and therefore switching to a race resources backed currency would increase demand and allow the value of to rise to meet the need for it as a currency.

B) Yes the federal reserve is basically controled by the government and they are responsible for every major economic problem caused by the federal reserve over the past 100 years.

C) GIven the massive size of the worlds population, the number of people that have been stuck in poverty getting out of it and the level of technology the federal reserve has nothing to do with it. 



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

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I hopeful that currency like bitcoin will end the federal reserve. Its secure and free from government created inflation.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

Here's an interesting article I ran into

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/should-bankers-serve-on-federal-reserve-bank-boards/247090/



MegaDrive08 said:
How about this system collapses and all the crooks are brought to justice, then start a new system that's better than we have now.


the system will collapse at some point in this decade but after that there will be some kind of a civil war



Kasz216 said:


No.  Your wrong.  World wide wealth is higher everywhere.

You seem to not understand what wealth means.

If everyone has higher purchasing power... everyone has more wealth.

As everyone can afford and has more stuff.

Stuff = Wealth.

how

 

if a chinese person can only buy 50 times less of what an american can buy then how is this more.

 

if you are saying people have more food,energy and other basic stuff then partly yes.

 

but you are discounting human pschology,when industrial revolution started people basic needs got easily covered but their aspirations also increased.

 

its like giving a person 10 gallons of milk when he can drink only one.also life isn't about survival but progress and hapiness.

 

if you are stagnating an individual at basic needs then why to live.



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snyps said:
Kasz216 said:
snyps said:



you mean a bank system run by a board of ppl who underwent an election by representatives unlike a bank system run by appointees and private banks.

The people who run the Central Bank of Iceland are appointed by the legislature of Iceland.

The people who run the Federal Reserve Board of Govonors are chosen by the preisdent, then elected in by being approved by the congress.

It's pretty much the exact same thing.  

Private banks don't pick or have a say about anyone who is a member of the Federal Reserve Board  of Govenors.

Seðlabanki Íslands (cb)  is administered by a governor and a seven-member supervisory board, elected by the country's parliament following each general election.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_Iceland

 

 The members of the Fed's Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by the Senate.   Nationally chartered commercial banks are entitled to elect some of the members of the board of the regional Federal Reserve Bank.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System  (i admit i misread regional).

 

So to your four points, no, no, no, and yes, well sort of, actually no.  Private banks do have a say in who is chosen by the president to be on the board of govenors.  Banks are the largest contributors to presidential elections (except Ron Paul of coarse) and get themselves appointmented.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286

 

 

So just plain no, nice try.

You've made some mistakes by some poor reading comprhension here.

1)  You missed the most important point there.  By the country pariliment.

An election and an appointment are the same thing when done by previously elected people.  People don't get to vote for this.

The Icelandic Parliment decides.  Just like congress votes on if they want a candidate to be a Federal Reserve BOG member.

2)  Board of REGIONAL govonors.
 

You admit you misread it... then yet totally still pretend your right.  Quit baffling. 

 

The regional board of govonors are the Board of govonors for specific federal reserve regional banks.  Not the actual Federal Reserve.  They're the equilvenet of Management at a Walkmart store vs a Walmart CEOs.

They take orders from the 12 Regional Presidents (Who happen to be the 12 board of govnors members) and just do what they say.   The best they get to do is lobby for policy changes and conduct research.  They  aren't any more powerful then your average lobbyist.

They don't actually make any decisions outside setting discount rates.   Which have to be approved by the Federal Reserve Board oF Govonors.

So... they don't actually make any decisions.

It's a purely advisory role which the national board of govonors is free to ignore.

Conspiracy theoriests basically just rely on people not being able to notice the difference between the Board of Directors and the Regional Board.  You've been taken in by lies created by specifically cropping things so you read it how they want you to, instead of how it is.

It's like mixing up an assistant manage with a managing partner of a company.

If you re-read the article you posted you'll note that it specifically alludes to this fact, as you'll note they don't actually mention any real power those guys have outside advising the real Board of Govonors.

 

3)   Your third argument is where your entire position completely comes apart.  Your arguement is that banks have  a say in the actual board of govonors because they lobby politicians very heavily and therefore their choices might get picked.

Your solution to this is...  to make it so Federal Reserve guys are elected... therefore putting them closer to campaign money and making it more important when it comes to elections?

The whole point the Fed Chief is set up sort of like the Supreme court is specifcally too lower the impact of campagin money.  If Obama didn't want Janet Yellen he could elect whatever person he wants, because he won't run  in another election for the rest of his life.  Camapaign contributions are meaningless at this point.

 

 

Either way... yeah, i was right.



hysterianut said:
Kasz216 said:


No.  Your wrong.  World wide wealth is higher everywhere.

You seem to not understand what wealth means.

If everyone has higher purchasing power... everyone has more wealth.

As everyone can afford and has more stuff.

Stuff = Wealth.

how

 

if a chinese person can only buy 50 times less of what an american can buy then how is this more.

 

if you are saying people have more food,energy and other basic stuff then partly yes.

 

but you are discounting human pschology,when industrial revolution started people basic needs got easily covered but their aspirations also increased.

 

its like giving a person 10 gallons of milk when he can drink only one.also life isn't about survival but progress and hapiness.

 

if you are stagnating an individual at basic needs then why to live.


Because he could buy 100 times more then he could before.

Human psychology has nothing to do with wealth, or the definition of wealth.

Silly marxist interpretations don't really play out when it comes to actual economics...

and even marxist's wouldn't be so childish as to assume that it's always a 1-1 direct thing.

 

and no.... people can afford WAY more then just basic needs.

 

Way more people survive now in the past... sure... and way more people can afford way more luxuray items too.  We're in quite the luxuary item boom.



Kasz216 said:

First off... normal 8-10% Interst rate?

The recent average US interset rate on a ten year bond is around like 5% before the financial crisis hit.

the interest rates have been manipulated since 1913 but they really started going into all out manipulation after 1971 nixon shock.

all the FED has been doing since 1971 is reduce interest to stimulate the economy which is stopping the natural flow of things.

 

5% before the crisis,the FED was there before the financial crisis too so even those rates were fake

Intrest rates would never hit 8-10 in the current world enviroment.

what the hell do you mean by current?

if you mean till the time dollar stays the world reserve currency and FED is there,then yes as any increase in interest rates would collapse the global economy.

interest rates naturally around the world have always been around 8-10%,sometime they go to 5% of sometimes 20%

 

the economy either goes up or down,their is never stagnation or the system collapses.same in the case of interest rates,they go up or down.FED since 1971 has been lowering the interest rates,right now they are at 0% if they increase the economy collapses,that is why they are talking about  negative interest rates now

 

Funny thing is... in times of economic crisis even without fed intervention, US interest rates drop.  Even when the US is the cause of the problem.  Why?  The US is generally seen as the most stable country in the world when it comes to debts, and is the least likely to ever default.   At least to investors, despite what credit ratings agencies say.

lmao,usa the most stable country.

stability has nothing to do with it.

the way you talk,it seems like you have no sense of time and trends and you live in present and follow the norm.

 

after World War 2,USA had close to 50-60% of the world's gold reserves.that is the reason of USA's dollar standard.

all of the world's industrial production had been destroyed,so USA told the nations if they make Dollar the world's reserve currency then they would get loans.

In those days USA used to be a very reliable nation and a rich hard working nation unlike today.

what does USA produce today?..........lol - reality television,porn,video games,bombs and war,etc

 

 

also you don't seem to understand the defualt,which country has defaulted that you say the usa is more reliable,USA is only reliable because of world reserve currency.thats all.counrties just don't default like that,its a long process,any investor would know that.

 

 

Which is why for example.. when the US credit rating was dropped.  It was seen as a negative... markets were down.

if the rating agencies had any real merit,USA would have junk rating today.

markets today are so manipulated,they go up or down on anything.

in such a controlled economy,it is hard to identify where to invest or not as the FED and the other banks of the world keep of pumping money

Even though by all accounts it should make rates higher.

rates higher on what?

borrowing money has been the cheapest in history of the world.

 

why would the rates go higher





SlayerRondo said:
Kasz216 said:
hysterianut said:
Kasz216 said:

People don't like the fed. I get that...

I don't see a better option however.

an asset based currency like the gold standard seems impossible in the modern world... and countries without central banks or that have had direct government control of them have been unmitigated disasters who end up selling out a countries long term future almost immediatly to get out of short term debt/be able to short term spend.

The Fed is really just like the Supreme court, and is independent for the same reasons. (Those who think it's not a government organization and is privately owned generally don't know what they're talking about... )


what do you mean by modern world?

technology changes but the fundementals remain the same

the central bank can be there but it should be under the tresury not above it controlled by international bankers.

and gold standard can easily function,it limits money printing.

 

all empires in history have had gold standard and still been empires and able to expand.

 

all FED and all the world organistions do is allow government spending on welfare state and they are taking the entire world into world communism,nothing else.

the entire economy today is rigged,not jst US economy but the entire world's economy.it is one big ponzi scheme

A)  A world in which the value of growth in services, virtual goods an manufactured products FAR exceeds the amount of hard resources required to value them.

B)  The Federal Reserve isn't controlled by international bankers.  The President elects the people who run the Federal Reserve.  Bankers and people with finance degress are often chosen because well... people with banking and finance degrees tend to know the most about   It's like complaining that a doctor was made surgeon general.

C)  There have been more products and wealth created in like... the last 20-30 years or so then have been created in the rest of human history.

A) The value of gold is determined by demand and therefore switching to a race resources backed currency would increase demand and allow the value of to rise to meet the need for it as a currency.

B) Yes the federal reserve is basically controled by the government and they are responsible for every major economic problem caused by the federal reserve over the past 100 years.

C) GIven the massive size of the worlds population, the number of people that have been stuck in poverty getting out of it and the level of technology the federal reserve has nothing to do with it. 


A) Race Resources backked currency?

Not sure what you mean by that.   It sounds like... raw population?  No clue how in the world that's even remotey supposed to work.

 

B)  I wouldn't disagree with that persay.  However it's MUCH less controlled by the government then say... the Tresaury Department, and more so then the supreme court.  

 

C)  Never said it did.  However it shows why fiat money is more or less needed. 



Kasz216 said:
snyps said:
Kasz216 said:
snyps said:



you mean a bank system run by a board of ppl who underwent an election by representatives unlike a bank system run by appointees and private banks.

The people who run the Central Bank of Iceland are appointed by the legislature of Iceland.

The people who run the Federal Reserve Board of Govonors are chosen by the preisdent, then elected in by being approved by the congress.

It's pretty much the exact same thing.  

Private banks don't pick or have a say about anyone who is a member of the Federal Reserve Board  of Govenors.

Seðlabanki Íslands (cb)  is administered by a governor and a seven-member supervisory board, elected by the country's parliament following each general election.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_Iceland

 

 The members of the Fed's Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by the Senate.   Nationally chartered commercial banks are entitled to elect some of the members of the board of the regional Federal Reserve Bank.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System  (i admit i misread regional).

 

So to your four points, no, no, no, and yes, well sort of, actually no.  Private banks do have a say in who is chosen by the president to be on the board of govenors.  Banks are the largest contributors to presidential elections (except Ron Paul of coarse) and get themselves appointmented.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286

 

 

So just plain no, nice try.

You've made some mistakes by some poor reading comprhension here.

1)  You missed the most important point there.  By the country pariliment.



Look at my first statement in the above quote tree. And gimme an apology. Then Note that i took my last statements on CB of Iceland's ellection and Fed's apointments directly from wikipedia, they are not even my words. And gimme another apology. Do not accuse someone of poor reading comprehension in an argument, it's a cheap tactic. This is why we can't have nice discussions.

 

 

Kasz216 said:

An election and an appointment are the same thing when done by previously elected people.  People don't get to vote for this.

The Icelandic Parliment decides.  Just like congress votes on if they want a candidate to be a Federal Reserve BOG member.



Not the same thing. In Iceland, Can a Representative not enter into an election by his peers to be on the Board of CB? How about The US? Can a Representative enter into an election by his peers to be on the Board of CB? A patriot knows the difference.

 

 

Kasz216 said:

2)  Board of REGIONAL govonors.
 

You admit you misread it... then yet totally still pretend your right.  Quit baffling. 



Again, I already pointed this out. I'm not pretending I'm right. I'm it pointing out. Very unbaffling.

 

 

Kasz216 said:

3)Your solution to this is to make it so Federal Reserve guys are elected... therefore putting them closer to campaign money and making it more important when it comes to elections?

The whole point the Fed Chief is set up sort of like the Supreme court is specifcally too lower the impact of campagin money.  If Obama didn't want Janet Yellen he could elect whatever person he wants, because he won't run  in another election for the rest of his life.  Camapaign contributions are meaningless at this point.



My solution is to let power be dispersed into the body of Congress. That is the purpose of Congress; to take away the more dangerous powers from the executive branch. Fyi, it's much harder to successfully lobby hundreds of Congressional Candidates than it is two Presidential Cadidates. Lastly, Obama is not free to appoint whoever he wants, he is still bound to his donators. They didn't pay him for nothing.

 

 

Kasz216 said:

Either way... yeah, i was right.



Sure.