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Forums - Microsoft - Jonathan Blow: Microsoft have a cultural habit of treating small developers like s**t

NobleTeam360 said:
Go cry somewhere else little Blow.

You mean he shouldn't answer questions on his twitter ? As that's all that happened and some site picked it up as "news".



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DirtyP2002 said:
another reason to hate on indies is this jerk.

Proud leader of the anti-indie-movement!

Seriously, just... wow...

Do yourself and everyone else here a favor and just not post anymore in this thread.



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Lafiel said:
DirtyP2002 said:
another reason to hate on indies is this jerk.

Proud leader of the anti-indie-movement!

the sad thing is, that with you there always is a chance that you are not joking when making a statement like this *sigh* -_-

I am not joking at all.
The sad thing is, that you fail to see how indies are a bunch of vocal retards who managed to create about 10 good games over a whole generation for 2 platforms. They love theirselves more than their games and think there is somehow a big following for their games. There is not.

Asking $10 for a 2D sidescroller shooter is cool for guys like you, heh?
And the game can be shitty as hell, it will get great reviews anyway, because it is from an indie dev. Yeah the graphics are from the 90s, the soundtrack kills your ears and the game is repetitive, but it is somehow retro and made by an indie: 8/10!

Asking $10 for DLC for a game that has great visuals, something called online multiplayer, great sound effects and a story is a rip off though, because Activision / EA / UbiSoft are oh so greedy.

Seriously blowfish are the perfect example of what went wrong with indies. This is a game designer who made one (in numbers: 1) game 5 (!!!) years ago. Since then he gave sooo many interviews and even tried to influence how Microsoft / Sony should build their machines. He lives in an ecosystem MS created. This is the irony here. He made money, because MS created XBLA. They even published his first and only game. That was his market place. Now MS / Sony invest BILLIONS of USD in R&D for a console and he says, he wants to have a different architecture and another focus. Who the hell do these indies think they are?

Nobody pays $400 / $500 USD for a gaming console just to play Braid. He should be thankful for every blockbuster game out there, because those games are selling the hardware and increases the userbase he tries to sell his $10 download-only game to.

And this Fish guy, who made Fez, which is not even an outstanding game, talks at the GDC towards the Japanese game developers "You and your games just suck"... WHAT THE FUCK?! Those Japanese game developers basically created the industry he is working in. Yeah, I know there were games in the West as well, but yeah... The gaming industry would not be the same without Japan. Period.

I can keep on ranting, but I am getting tired.

There are great indie / XBLA / PSN games out there. State of Decay was very good for example, The Walking Dead was one of my favorite games in the past years. But the way some indies try to present themselves and their games is ridiculous. They will get away with everything, just because they are indies.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Mr Puggsly said:
I feel like I read this story already... many times before.

If MS is treating developers that poor, they'll lose support. The end.


And thats exactly whats happening , witchbeam dev not publishing assault android cactus on x1  because of release parity clause and many others,also look at the list of absentees on id@xbox dev list ,no hello games(no mans sky) no tequila works(rime) no supergiant games (transistor) no thelca inc (the witness) and when these games release on ps4 first they wont be allowed release on x1 because of the parity clause 



DirtyP2002 said:

There are great indie / XBLA / PSN games out there.


Do you understand indie doesn't necessarily mean XBLA / PSN / Wiiware, right?



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Wright said:
DirtyP2002 said:

There are great indie / XBLA / PSN games out there.


Do you understand indie doesn't necessarily mean XBLA / PSN / Wiiware, right?


yes, I know that.
*edit* my point was that I am not hating on smaller games or download only games by definition.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Lafiel said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Go cry somewhere else little Blow.

You mean he shouldn't answer questions on his twitter ? As that's all that happened and some site picked it up as "news".

It's not like this is the first time he has complained. We get it MS did something he didn't like and he feels the need to vent and if someone asks him a question about it then he should give an honest answer, but every time he says "MS treats indie devs like shit" it gets picked up as "news". Also if MS treated Indie devs so badly then I'm sure MS wouldn't have nearly as many indie games on 360 and coming to Xbox One.



Seece said:
He's such a twat, didn't bitch when you put your game on 360 exclusively did you?

From the Xbox days I didn't hear anyone bitching about MS, quite the opposite. In fact this 'MS treats indies like shit' has only reared its head over the last year, = propaganda.

Sorry, but that's not true at all.  Complaints have been filtering in over the last several years from some of the most successful small studios out there, including a few that started out with Microsoft.  The developers of games like Braid, Machinarium, World of Goo, Retro City Rampage, Odd World, and Meat Boy have all spoken about problems they've had with the way Microsoft deals with small developers.

Quite honestly, I do not understand the sudden hate against anyone who points out a problem.  I'm extremely happy that develpers complained about PSN years ago, as it resulted in most of those restrictive policies being thrown out.  I think that's awesome.  It means more games for me to play.  Now, however, I'm seeing a lot of Xbox fans who don't want improvements.  I cannot understand that.  Never mind that they're siding with a massive corporation against small businesses who are trying to survive--they're also siding with a massive corporation against the games themselves.  Makes no sense to me.

And, actually, Microsoft themselves seem to agree, as they've been working on changing those policies, just as I said they would last year when I made a thread about this very subject.  The complaints were varied and included subjects such as the ridiculous need to have a publisher, Microsoft's silly stance that they would not publish a game that had been on ANY other platform (the reason Machinarium skipped Live), endless red tape, not delivering on promises about promotions, patch size restrictions and costs, making developers jump through hoops, and just not treating them very well in general.  It's all out there if you go look.



pokoko said:

Sorry, but that's not true at all.  Complaints have been filtering in over the last several years from some of the most successful small studios out there, including a few that started out with Microsoft.  The developers of games like Braid, Machinarium, World of Goo, Retro City Rampage, Odd World, and Meat Boy have all spoken about problems they've had with the way Microsoft deals with small developers.

Quite honestly, I do not understand the sudden hate against anyone who points out a problem.  I'm extremely happy that develpers complained about PSN years ago, as it resulted in most of those restrictive policies being thrown out.  I think that's awesome.  It means more games for me to play.  Now, however, I'm seeing a lot of Xbox fans who don't want improvements.  I cannot understand that.  Never mind that they're siding with a massive corporation against small businesses who are trying to survive--they're also siding with a massive corporation against the games themselves.  Makes no sense to me.

And, actually, Microsoft themselves seem to agree, as they've been working on changing those policies, just as I said they would last year when I made a thread about this very subject.  The complaints were varied and included subjects such as the ridiculous need to have a publisher, Microsoft's silly stance that they would not publish a game that had been on ANY other platform (the reason Machinarium skipped Live), endless red tape, not delivering on promises about promotions, patch size restrictions and costs, making developers jump through hoops, and just not treating them very well in general.  It's all out there if you go look.


could you link the thread?



DirtyP2002 said:
Lafiel said:
DirtyP2002 said:
another reason to hate on indies is this jerk.

Proud leader of the anti-indie-movement!

the sad thing is, that with you there always is a chance that you are not joking when making a statement like this *sigh* -_-

I am not joking at all.
The sad thing is, that you fail to see how indies are a bunch of vocal retards who managed to create about 10 good games over a whole generation for 2 platforms. They love theirselves more than their games and think there is somehow a big following for their games. There is not.

Asking $10 for a 2D sidescroller shooter is cool for guys like you, heh?
And the game can be shitty as hell, it will get great reviews anyway, because it is from an indie dev. Yeah the graphics are from the 90s, the soundtrack kills your ears and the game is repetitive, but it is somehow retro and made by an indie: 8/10!

Asking $10 for DLC for a game that has great visuals, something called online multiplayer, great sound effects and a story is a rip off though, because Activision / EA / UbiSoft are oh so greedy.

Seriously blowfish are the perfect example of what went wrong with indies. This is a game designer who made one (in numbers: 1) game 5 (!!!) years ago. Since then he gave sooo many interviews and even tried to influence how Microsoft / Sony should build their machines. He lives in an ecosystem MS created. This is the irony here. He made money, because MS created XBLA. They even published his first and only game. That was his market place. Now MS / Sony invest BILLIONS of USD in R&D for a console and he says, he wants to have a different architecture and another focus. Who the hell do these indies think they are?

Nobody pays $400 / $500 USD for a gaming console just to play Braid. He should be thankful for every blockbuster game out there, because those games are selling the hardware and increases the userbase he tries to sell his $10 download-only game to.

And this Fish guy, who made Fez, which is not even an outstanding game, talks at the GDC towards the Japanese game developers "You and your games just suck"... WHAT THE FUCK?! Those Japanese game developers basically created the industry he is working in. Yeah, I know there were games in the West as well, but yeah... The gaming industry would not be the same without Japan. Period.

I can keep on ranting, but I am getting tired.

There are great indie / XBLA / PSN games out there. State of Decay was very good for example, The Walking Dead was one of my favorite games in the past years. But the way some indies try to present themselves and their games is ridiculous. They will get away with everything, just because they are indies.


Seriously!

 10 good indie games thats lolworthy,

I find indie games in general to be more innovative and fun than the regurgitated AAA cod clones, to each their own i guess