Whoever thinks a company is forcing anything needs their brain tested. Its their product. Not ours. Buy something else if you dont want it. Period. I dont want PS4, so I bought Xbox. See how easy that is?

If I bundle a games console with Italian designer shoes, is that ok too? What if a bundled accessory serves no purpose? You still find that normal? Because the vast majority of people apparently don't.

Your obviously missing the point.

Microsoft arent trying to make just a games console. The clue is in its name. Xbox One. They want to provide a media box, that plays great games and also great media. They are trying to bring new technology to the table. Hey like I said, those that dont want it. Awesome, theres Wii U or PS4, or Apple TV or Google TV.

Microsoft are the only company right now bringing all forms of entertainment in one place. Thats there goal. Dont like it dont buy it. Noones forcing anything.

Sony arent doing a full media box. Should I complain that they are forcing me to NOT have the things I want? No. They arent forcing anything. I have what I want.

Man consumers are funny as hell.

hehe - I'm a big fan of using extreme examples to make a  subtle point :)

Not really. Not that many games swap discs.

- In the context of this thread, force means obligating the user of a certain product to acquire, pay for, and use a non-essential additional facet of said product. Hence your first sentance has no value in the context of this discussion.

- You see Selnor, there's a very clear difference between you and I. If the Xbox One and PS4 were magically interchanged so that across the entire range of factors such as specs, hardware devices and policies, reveal history, games lineup and first party studios and company history were somehow exchanged, then I'd be getting an XBox One over a PS4. No question.

This is called parity in a reality-space. I.e. there's a fundamental symmetry on interchange. You on the other hand are asymmetric, because even if the thought experiment above were to take place, then you're statement, "I dont want PS4, so I bought Xbox" would still be what you adhere to. And it is because of this fundamental difference of realities we occupy that I simply do not know what purpose any communication with you might hold for me. In this case it is a mere pass-time, but that is just cause I'm avoiding doing my work at the moment.

Yes, it's different. Kinect offers no obvious benefit to anything. Blu-ray did. First, we'd probably have had a pretty fierce battle between BD and HD DVD if not for PS3. Second, disc space was becoming an issue even for some PS2 games so it was obvious that something new had to come soon. It wasn't a huge benefit in that sense but still different from Kinect.

Really? The only thing 360 could've benefitted from BR-Discs would be space and with 2 DVDs that was the remedy.

Can Blu-ray sign me in and 5 other more people in a Fifa 14 tournament and keep track of our player settings?

Can it help surf the web just with commands, which is way faster than typing with a controller?

Pretty stupid comparison of peripherals ain't it?

This is hilarious. By your EXTREMELY FLOORED LOGIC TO HIT OUT AT KINECT every product ever made is forcing something on you. Cars, TV's, Toasters, Cups, mugs, Shoes EVERY PRODUCT contains design choices and non-essential additional facet.

Your admiration for all things Sony Playstation and gift for want of not letting go, clouds your reasoning on the subject of Forcing a consumer. There is no such thing as forcing the consumer. The consumer can say no to anything they want.

Times have changed where just a games console or just a mobile phone are the acceptable norm. Last generation touched on this. This generation is easily going to be just as much about non gaming features as it is gaming. Would I buy a games console if a media box wasnt available this generation? Probably. But Id wait. I would not pay that amount of money again for something that is essentially a 360.5. Games Consoles are electronic toys. Not worth £300 +.

I have way more to think about than my gaming habbits of the last 24 years. Ive grown and changed. I have a family. Xbox One fits that far better than Sony could ever have imagined.

Im not gonna cry forcing on Sony part that I have to pay for a controller with half its functionality useless out of the box. Or their decision to nullify the camera entirely by not including it in every box. Thats their product and their choice. You bought it, I didnt. I wont cry about it. Actually a few decisions Sony made with PS4 actually have made me not want one at all. And I did own a PS3.

But Sony didnt force anything. Im happy with the company providing more than a games console, but ( IMO ) the better games also.

Sometimes I think people just sit there at their desks, place their finger on their chin and say "hmmm what can I think of to agrue about today"