you have point, but maybe behind closed doors its not that easy.

The true DMC fans

You didn't even know that DMC4 wasn't in the HD Collection, you can't even keep the idea of a lock on straight, and you've said that Nero's combat is the best out of the older Devil May Cry games. At this point, you've pretty much admitted you don't even like the old Devil May Crys. Calling yourself a DMC fan is a joke at this point.

According to Capcom this is the best DMC game they designed.

This is a lie.

In Metroid Prime, you can very easily lock on to a target without moving towards them just by aiming at the one you want and pressing L.You don't need to move to lock on to anything. It's the same way here. The AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack, and then you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want. You are manually selecting your target. In DmC, if you're halfway across the map and the AI picks a target you don't want, then you can't choose the one you want outside of moving over.

  Mhm, those are my words, yes. Now consider this: Metroid Prime has a manual lock on system. In Metroid Prime, you press a button, and you lock on to a target. Now, tell me, which one, Devil May Cry 3/4, or DmC, has you press a button in order to lock on to a target?

I suggest you have a look at putting your foot in your mouth, since now your doubling back on your original words. Unfortuantely here in a forum I can easily go back and prove that you did indeed put your foot in your mouth, which you have just done again with that denial.

...sorry kid, but no. Metroid Prime, in a similar fashion to DMC4, has you press a button (some input besides relative position and movement) in order to lock on to a target. I haven't doubled back over anything.

The reason Hideki Kamiya's words hold no meaning for you is because your a DMC4 fan, not a DMC fan. Which is what I originally said from the beginning. If you were a true DMC fan you would have never blindly accepted the camp homo as Dante. Now explain to me camp homo fan, just because you accepted the camp homo as Dante, why do the original fans have to blindly accept what you did? I'm a DMC1 fan, I don't listen to DMC4 fans on who Dante is, because they will do anything to try and validate DMC4. Even if it means degrading the words of the series creator and the orignal game, which you have just done.

It's the same reason you can't formulate a halfway coherent argument, and are forced to resort to just mindlessly throwing straw men out.

Fact of the matter is, if you claim DMC4 Dante isn't the same Dante as the original series, you yourself are going against what Capcom has publicly stated. Whichever side you take, you're going to say that someone involved in the original Devil May Cry's creation is wrong. I choose to accept the company who happens to be behind the original DMC, and every game since as well.

Is that all you got? 'Go debate a dictionary'? We both know DmC is manual at this point. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, Capcom designed the game that way. Thats why you can never be right, because contray to your belief your are not above the compitency of Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan. As you arrogantly so claim. 

Well then, it's a shame we "both know it" and Tameem Antionandes doesn't.

I'm still waiting on an answer for this, by the way. The creator of this awful reboot has stated himself that it doesn't have a manual system. Are you going to tell me that he's a liar now, and then accuse me of being arrogant?

According to whom is that not good enough? DMC4 fan scum who wanted DMC4's automatic lock-on?

According to Tameem Antionades, that's who. According to Ninja Theory, and according to the entire Devil May Cry fanbase.

Seriously, you are the only one on the entire internet who is insisting that DmC has a manual lock on. Go take a trip to Google and search for "DmC lock on system." Let me know how many people you find saying that DmC is manual. 

If you can't handle a bit of swearing I suggest you keep to playing games like DMC4 and FF13. The Last of Us, GTA5 and DmC have swearing. If you can't be mature about it, thats not my problem. DmC Dante was a three dimensional hero this time. If your not happy with Dante having more depth, thats not my problem. I suggest you go back to camp, homoerotic poses. Yet you don't question shit like that, which butchered an icon, because you are a lying DMC4 fan, nothing more.

It's not that swearing is inherently a problem; DMC3 and DMC4 Dante both curse ocassionally. The issue is that the only form of taunting that DmC Dante does is swearing. That's the only trick he's got up his sleeve. Swearing is funny every so often, but when it's all a character does, it quickly becomes really bland, like a kid on X-Box live.

...sorry. Swearing and talking about how watching a kid explode into little wet chunks was priceless.

Anyway, DmC Dante is just as one dimensional as every other Devil May Cry character. The only difference is that DmC tried to make him out to be some sort of well developed character, and failed miserably in the process.

DmC sold more than the DMC HD collection.

With PC sales thrown in, yes. I was limiting it to a console vs. console standard, since the HD collection wasn't released on PC. But I suppose if you want, you can throw in PC and give DmC the victory. Kind of pathetic though when you need an extra platform in order to outsell an HD re-release.

I responded already to the majority of what you posted below, so I'm not wasting time with what's already been discussed.

... *Facepalm*. Seriously? Are you seriously using Turbo Mode as an argument? Is this a joke? Turbo Mode increases the games speed by 20-30%, it dosen't exist on DMC4 PS3/360 either. If the fans wanted to they could probably mod Bayonetta to run faster, just like they did with DmC to run much faster than DMC4.

And if they modded it to go that fast, I would be willing to be that a large portion of the peope playing the game would have trouble pulling off full circle + button moves. See the problem yet?

... Your words are availble to see in plain black and white, you did say it. You've already been exposed, what are you trying convince me of now. That you were wrong before?

Things like this are what convince me you have the reading comprehension of a five year old.

Lock on attacks are NOT something a game throws out due to faster pacing. My words state that a game can afford to throw out lock on attacks if it goes at a slow enough pace to allow inputs through other methods. This is not the same as saying that if a game isn't fast enough, it can't have lock on attacks. In fact, it's the direct opposite.

If you need some help with those big words, just ask.

HAHAHAHAHA. You are not seriosuly saying this? Can you not see yourself at this point. You don't actually don't know what your saying. You keep making up more and more things to amend your failures. Where have Capcom actually said that? Where is your proof that Platinum Games are not capable of doing the same things with their games? The arrogance of your posts is dire. You do not decide what developers can and can't do with their games. If you want to tell Hideki Kamiya that Bayonetta cannot have a Turbo Mode because Bayonetta won't allow fast inputs on higher speeds, then tell him on Twitter. I'll look forward to the moment he tells you to fuck off for telling him you know more about designing action games than him. 

Well kids, here's a textbook example of how to argue.

"Wah wah wah, I don't have a good response, so I'll type a lot of ha ha has, tell him he doesn't know what he's saying, and then refer him to the game developer because I don't know what to say myself."

There you go again, trying to incorporate something else into the argument so you can avoid answering the question directly about DmC. Once again, I've said this before, DmC's lock on in maintained on the enemy by holding the L3 stick in the direction of that enemy. Allowing you to isolate your attacks to one specific enemy indefinitely. That is how the manual lock works. Intead of holding a button (R1) you hold the L3 stick. Has that fact penetrated your brain cells yet?

What's penetrated my brain is that you've realized that your definition doesn't hold water, and now you're trying to backpeddle your way out of it by saying that it doesn't apply to all video games. 

Nice try, but no. Movement does not qualify as a lock on.

Wrong again DMC4 fan. You cannot choose a new enemy to lock onto, the AI does it for you. Hence why the system is automatic. Thus based on your own words DMC4 was automatic and yes broken too, as we saw with video proof:

Can you cycle through targets until you reach the one you want?

Yes? Then it's manual.

Lol. HAHAHA. When you didn't know about the move, you claim their different moves. Angel Evade is the equilivant of Trickster Dash. That player modded it for whatever reason. You don't like that you were exposd not my problem.

How exactly is you referencing a fan mod, having me call you out on that move not being in the game, and then you crying about how you actually meant something else me being exposed?

Where are all these fans now? Numbers mean very little without context. Theres no point in me explaining the contextual factors to you because at the end of that day you will never admit that DMC4 was not a true sequel to Devil May Cry 1. You will continue to pretend that DMC4 was a good game because of the sales and nothing to do witht the qaulity of the game itself, which was abysmal when comapred to other action games.

I would assume all these fans are probably off playing some halfway decent action title like Metal Gear Rising, since DmC was awful.

Enough of the fanbase still remains to make a freaking re-release of titles from TWO generations ago outsell DmC.

Your definition is not a universal law DMC4 scum. Its this arrogance to impose your own definitions and rules as universal truths that have make you scum. You words are not absolute, I never have to accept them. We are each entitled to our own opinions, you do not control what we think DMC4 scum.

Except it's not just my defintion. Go visit the Devil May Cry boards across the internet, and see what the fanbase says.

Here, I'll even save you some trouble on the off chance divine intervention strikes you over the head. Here's a quote from the DMC IGN board:

"*DmC does not use the standard hard lock on system of ALL previous DMC games before it. ... There is no manual target switching of course."

And here's a topic where a DmC fan claims that DmC having an automatic lock on system is better than DMC having a manual one. 

Seriously, I meant what I said earlier. If you can find another person on the internet who is claiming DmC is manual, show it to me now and you'll have a case. A single person. That's all you need. 

But you won't be able to find one, I'm betting. Because everyone uses this definition.

Your opinion is not a fact. If you think DmC's combat is broken, thats your own opinion. Don't tell me I have to get in line with someone because they wanted DMC4 to continue.

Certainly, and if you want to like DmC, you're welcome to. But let's remember who came on here first, crying about Dante being too silly and yelling about how I was a "lying DMC4 fan."

You even said that yourself, yet had to amend your words when you failed agian.

On accident, I substituted the wrong word into a sentence. 

You are the last person who should be criticizing a grammar mistake, Mr. "You Claim to Question My Literacy Age."

You made a comment about English literacy, yet you use Spanish words. Way to contradict and put your foot in your mouth again.

So being bilingual means that I'm inherently illiterate in the English language?

Excellent logic there.

Its true DmC exceeds the combat of the previous games, according to the fans, the developers and the reviewers. 

3:1 sales, kid.

I waiting for a response to this point. RESPOND or hide from this point like the coward you are, which is it camp homo fan scum? I'M WAITING!!!

I responded 5, 6, 7, and 9 posts ago to this. You conveniently ignored each instance, so no, I'm not wasting my time typing up another response for you to ignore as well. 

You didn't even know that DMC4 wasn't in the HD Collection

Where have I said DMC4 was in the HD collection? Like I said the reason many fans overlooked the HD collection is because a lot of fans were unhappy with the poor quality of DMC4, they decided not to return to DMC. I don't understand how you can correlate my words as something else? Unless you are admitting of course you've misconstrued something due to your poor literacy? Or you are admiiting you've deliberitly misconstrued something to avoid the point yet again might I add.

Nero's combat is the best out of the older Devil May Cry games.

I would argue despite the abysimal quality of DMC4, Nero combat is the best Capcom produced before DmC came our and Capcom improved upon DMC4. Most of DMC4 Donte's combat is copy and pasted from the DMC3. Nero's combat was specifically designed to take advantage of the PS3 architecture when it came out, which Capcom discussed at the time. Thats why Nero's combat feels more innovative with his combat options, as opposed to DMC4 Donte, which features the same PS2 style of play. Nero's combat was an update, while Dante's combat was an extension of the outdated PS2 mehcanics. Thats why DmC Dante feels like a hybrid between Dante and Nero; Capcom knew exactly how to innovate the combat. Like I said, why should I believe you over Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan? I'm waiting?

At this point, you've pretty much admitted you don't even like the old Devil May Crys. Calling yourself a DMC fan is a joke at this point.

Lol. This is all you have, insults? My platinum trophies on each of the previous games (save the Twilight shit) are available for anyone to see. You still haven't shown me you trophies or achievements for the HD collection. You also haven't shown me your DMD leaderboard scores which should be at the top of the leaderboard, since you have claimed the game is easy. I suppose your trophies and your scores were lost on the Internet right?

Either way, its irrelevant what trophies I have. I've admitted I'm a DMC1, yet I'm not a DMC2 or DMC4 fan. I especially dislike DMC4 because it was very far from the original game and it was to feature the rise of Twilight characters as the new main characters, and it also turned Dante into a camp homo. Which you blindly accepted. Thats how I know your not a DMC fan. No DMC fan would call Hideki Kamiya or Hideaki Itsuno liars.

I haven't doubled back over anything:

No, actually, those are your words, in case you forgot. Those are the same, stupid words you've been quoting for three pages over now. Screaming them at the top of your lungs doesn't mean anyone else has said it.

Are you claiming at this point that these are not the words you spoke? Are you denying your denial?

Fact of the matter is, if you claim DMC4 Dante isn't the same Dante as the original series, you yourself are going against what Capcom has publicly stated.

Capcom and Rebuen Langdon have admitted that DMC4 Dante was designed to be different from previous iterations of the character. Besides Capcom admitted they were aiming for Hollywood style storytelling with DMC4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JOGr_kKwy0&hd=1

Like I said you claim to be a DMC fan, yet you blindly acknowledge drastic changes made to the series, like the camp homo. Your not a DMC fan, or you would have never accepted the camp homo.

Whichever side you take, you're going to say that someone involved in the original Devil May Cry's creation is wrong. I choose to accept the company who happens to be behind the original DMC, and every game since as well.

Actually I am agreeing with the original developers. You see your defintion of 'company' is incorrect. Capcom are both a publisher and a developer. They have different internal teams working on products, some with no contact with the other teams. Devil May Cry 1 was the product of Team Little Devils. After that game was a success Capcom commissioned sequels with different internal teams.

Thats why the DMC games have remained inconsistant throughout their production at Capcom. Either way your the one calling Hideki Kamiya a liar not me. I choose to accept that Capcom changed Dante in every game, and Lady and Trish, because they wanted to Hollywoodise Devil May Cry 4. Which they admitted in the video I linked to. Now you can't deny what Capcom have already admitted. You can't dent what Hideki Kamiya has already admitted. Yet you can deny to accept it as Devil May Cry, which is exactly what Hideki Kamiya and the original fans have done. You've accepted that camp homo Twilight shit as Devil May Cry, because your not a DMC fan, your a lying DMC4 fan, you will never be anything more than that. 

Are you going to tell me that he's a liar now, and then accuse me of being arrogant?

I've already explained this point. You said I had misrepresented Tameem, yet you didn't explain how:

I'm not misrepresenting anything. As I said many times now, DmC has a lock on, its integrated into the L3 stick, DmC does not have an automatic button lock like previous games. We know this is true as I've already explained; the L3 lock isolates a specific enemy, unlike the button lock of previous games which isolates an enemy based on the AI's decision, the player has less control of that decision as you already admitted; in contrast DmC gives the player full control.

 Seriously, you are the only one on the entire internet who is insisting that DmC has a manual lock on. Go take a trip to Google and search for "DmC lock on system." Let me know how many people you find saying that DmC is manual.

No need you already admitted that DMC4 was automatic:

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI cycles through said targets until you reach the one you want? 

Then you put your foot in your mouth again by trying to deny that you said those words in the first place: 

No, actually, those are your words, in case you forgot. Those are the same, stupid words you've been quoting for three pages over now. Screaming them at the top of your lungs doesn't mean anyone else has said it.

Like I said, I don't know who you think cares at this point; you can't change what you've said. We also have the Bayonetta arguements you failed on that I will repost again until you answer them.

The only difference is that DmC tried to make him out to be some sort of well developed character, and failed miserably in the process.

Your opinion. I don't have to get in line with it. I don't put much stock in the opinion of someone who believes this is the original Dante. Its the camp homo, nothing more. Red coat and white hair don't make him Dante.

With PC sales thrown in, yes. I was limiting it to a console vs. console standard, since the HD collection wasn't released on PC.

Actually wrong again. DmC console sales have outsold the HD collection, we know this since DmC sold 1.15 mil hard copies on consoles. The rest of the sales as reported by Capcom were digital and PC. DMC HD has not managed 1 mil copies sold, so Capcom have no reported those numbers. We don't know what the HD collection actually sold, but we know it was less than DmC. Besides DmC sales are about on par with MGR, Bayonetta and even God of War Ascension (accoridng to Vgchartz). Like I said already theres more to sales than simple numbers, yet you seem to think the camp homo is Dante, so i doubt you would understand sales anyway.

I would be willing to be that a large portion of the peope playing the game would have trouble pulling off full circle + button moves. See the problem yet?

Unfortunately you've been wrong about a lot of things before, you seem to be quite keen to dismiss something if it clashes with you camp homo Twilight shit. The only reason Bayonetta hasn't been modded is because its exclusive to consoles. There is no PC verson. Only DMC4 PC has Turbo Mode, and the same goes for DmC. The reason fans can mod those games is because Capcom released them on PC, which is an open platform. Bayonetta can't be modded because there is no PC version to mod. We both know your wrong again with this point; if Bayonetta was released on PC, the PC community would mod the hell out of it. Just like they do with all PC games.

If you need some help with those big words, just ask:

No but I do need help understanding what you've said here:

Bayonetta makes up for not having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs

This is what I will say again in response to that:

Bayonetta does not move at a slower pace (LOL). In fact you've accidently put your foot into your mouth yet again. Since Bayonetta DOES have directionally locked attacks. The player has the option of performing ALL those directionally locked attacks without holding the button lock. Which actually allows the gameplay to flow at a faster pace, since you are never locked to directions to perform any attack.

Based on your statement your saying that Bayonetta can't incoperporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace. Yet you didn't know that Bayonetta does have all those directionally locked attacks available alternatively. So how then can Bayonetta move at a slower pace if all those directionally locked attacks actually exist unlike what you originally thought?

Amending your words now is too late. You've been caught. Whatever you say now can't undo what you've already been exposed on.

Nice try, but no. Movement does not qualify as a lock on.

Lol. Whatever the case, we both know DmC allows you to manually lock onto your enemy. You might not agree with the parameters of how that is defined, yet the player is always in full control of what enemy can be locked onto. Besides as you already posted Tameem already admitted DmC has a lock on, only it is automaticall integrated into the L3 stick. Which we've discussed already and you have yet to refute.

Now explain to me, why is it a system which allows you to manually lock onto any enemy you want whenever you want automatic? Explain this to me camp homo fan scum! I'm waiting!

Can you cycle through targets until you reach the one you want?

Actually the lock on is broken in DMC4. You can't actually do that whilst moving. Nor can you locate what your targetting in DMC3 if their are too many enemies on screen. Although I admit thats more of a camera problem than anything else. Not to mention the lock on will loose the enemy if the enemy is too far from Dante in DMC3. See Mission 18, chess board. When you lock onto the Queen, if the chess piece moves too far from Dante, the lock on will automaitcally break. Unlike DmC which features a longer lock on distance, which of course gives greater distance mobility to the Angel/Demon whip; unlike Nero's arm which did have longjevity issues.

Yes? Then it's manual.

I should remind you of this:

You made it crystal clear when you put your foot in your mouth and admitted DMC4 was indeed automatic:

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI cycles through said targets until you reach the one you want? 

However hard you try, you cannot change the truth. Who are you trying to convince here? You won't even show me your trophies for the DMC HD collection. We both know your a lying DMC4 fan, you can't change that you've been exposed. You can't change that the camp homo is not Dante, he never was. 

Enough of the fanbase still remains to make a freaking re-release of titles from TWO generations ago outsell DmC.

Evidently not. Thats clearly how badly DMC4 damaged the series with that camp homo Twilight shit.

Except it's not just my defintion. Go visit the Devil May Cry boards across the internet, and see what the fanbase says.

What fanbase? Stop relying on others to get you out of this mess and take some responsibility for your words. The fanbase does not exist as a unified entity. There are many original DMC fans who hated DMC4 and didn't want it to continue. There are many DMC fans who have never played all of the games. The only way to ascertain who is a true fan or not is to examine what that fan says on an indivdiual level. You need to create a blurred ambigious representation of the fanbase to pretend DMC4 was widely accepted and generally loved by the fans. It wasn't, even Capcom admitted they didn't see a future in the camp homo Twilight shit. The only fans who agree with you are the ones like you, who think DMC4 was a good game. If they were here I would say exactly the same thing I've said to you. They have no chance against someone armed with the truth. Thats why they stay in their little DMC4 groups, pretending that DMC4 was the only game in the series that mattered.

And here's a topic where a DmC fan claims that DmC having an automatic lock on system is better than DMC having a manual one.

I don't care about a topic I'm not actively involved in. Thats nothing to do with me. If I was involved in that topic I would explain how the lock on works to the parties involved; however I'm not involved so its nothing to do with me. You've come to me lying about Devil May Cry, and I've exposed you. You now need to rely on outside influences to try and dig your way out. It won't work, we both know your a lying DMC4 fan at this point. Nothing you can say will change how you've been exposed.

Certainly, and if you want to like DmC, you're welcome to. But let's remember who came on here first, crying about Dante being too silly and yelling about how I was a "lying DMC4 fan."

You came into this Ninja Theory thread to attack them. Like I said before, unfortunately you found a DMC1 fan waiting in the fold; now your cowardly doubling back on your intentions for coming into this thread. You won't admit you came into this thread to attack Ninja Theory and lie for your camp homo, because you are a cowardly DMC4 fan who has been exposed. Your denial of why you came into this thread in the first place exposes you for what you are camp homo fan scum.

I'm also waiting for all these points you cowardly avoided last time camp homo fan!

Are you talking about Angel Evade, or Angel Dash? Because those two things are very different.

Lol. HAHAHA. When you didn't know about the move, you claim their different moves. Angel Evade is the equilivant of Trickster Dash. That player modded it for whatever reason. You don't like that you were exposd not my problem.

Yeah, the entire community that made DMC4 outsell DmC 3:1, right? That's some definite preferral there.

Where are all these fans now? Numbers mean very little without context. Theres no point in me explaining the contextual factors to you because at the end of that day you will never admit that DMC4 was not a true sequel to Devil May Cry 1. You will continue to pretend that DMC4 was a good game because of the sales and nothing to do witht the qaulity of the game itself, which was abysmal when comapred to other action games.

 No, it's an example of a horribly broken combat system that allows amateur players to perform infinite air combos with little to no skill required.

Its not broken if its designed to be like that! Its designed to allow greater aerial mobility and aerial combat options, which allows amateur players to do that. It dosen't mean that you have to play the game that way. The game gives you the option of playing the game in that way if you don't have sufficent skill. Thats how DmC is better in another way. It has more combat options for those who don't have the skill to play at a higher level. Yet its beyond your limited thinking to understand how giving the player more combat options is better than having less combat options, like the abomination DMC4.

You also not so subtlely side stepped these points before because you knew you coulnd't answer them. I've reposted your exposure for your convience:

I'm not arguing here that the game's most complex combos are simple to pull off. I'm arguing that the skill level required to beat the game is incredibly low as opposed to previous titles.

Then prove it, show me the game is incredibly easy to beat. Show me your DMD leaderboard scores. We both know you have no chance of finishing the game, because its not easy what so ever on the upper difficulties. If it was you would prove it no problem.

That doesn't do ANYTHING for start up time. The start up time is the EXACT SAME regardless of the movement's duration.

You keep changing the discussion because you lost on the previous point, since you didn't know about Caliber. The start up time for most moves are about the same duration as DMC4, some moves are faster (see Drive) some moves are slower. DmC's moves are of course a cut above because Ninja Theory are animation experts.

Like I said, I'm sure people who put enough time and effort into the game can do amazing things with DmC. People can also do amazing things with DMC2. Does that make it a good game as well?

Don't know about DMC2. Yet your argument works both ways; people can do some interesting things with DMC4. Is it a good game? Well no, not really, its terrible in nearly every respect. Especially with the camp homo butchering an icon. Either way, its not for you to decide what someone else considers a good game or not. According to Capcom this is the best DMC game they designed. If you have an opinion with that, tell it to HIdeaki Itsuno. Don't make it my problem your calling Hideaki Itusno incompitent or a liar. That is simply not my problem.

The point is that DmC's combat, on a surface level, is incredibly broken, and people have to find ways to work around that. That isn't a good action game.

Your opinion is not a fact. If you think DmC's combat is broken, thats your own opinion. Don't tell me I have to get in line with someone because they wanted DMC4 to continue. Its not my problem you liked the camp homo, nor is it my problem Capcom consider this their most compitent combat engine to date. If you can't accept that, why do I have to believe you?

Or, you know, maybe he was testing a game without a lock on button to see how it would work. Ever think about that?

Maybe, maybe not. Capcom haven't confirmed that. Unfortunatley I don't go in for consipiracy theories. Nor do I take well to DMC4 fans telling me I have to accept theres. Besides we've established at this point DmC contains the series first manual lock on compared to the automatic lock on of previous games. You even said that yourself, yet had to amend your words when you failed agian.

...and my error was where? Substituting a Spanish word in? You really thought that was unintentional?

You made a comment about English literacy, yet you use Spanish words. Way to contradict and put your foot in your mouth again.

And yeah, sure, I can understand, grammar mistakes do happen on the internet. Yours happen with such frequency that I'm beginning to wonder whether you even finished first grade.

HAHAH. There you go again, you make grammar mistakes so you have to amend your words to contain your own shortcommings. Besides I don't care about grammar mistakes, I'm interested in facts, since you have no facts, you resort to grammar mistakes... The ultimate takedown for someone who keeps putting their foot in their mouth.

And besides, you're criticizing the way Dante looks? Really? You're as bad as those DmC fans who claim that the only reason we don't like DmC is because Dante underwent an outfit change.

What can I say, I'm a DMC1 fan, I don't accept camp homo imposters. Not to mention DMC1 Dante never wore red cowboy boots, because its not Dante to dress homosexually. You seem to think it was.

"DmC" is still a "DMC" game, or, at the very least, it's trying to be.

Its true DmC exceeds the combat of the previous games, according to the fans, the developers and the reviewers. Like I said you got a problem with that, then take it up with Hideaki Itusno and tell him you can do his job better. I'm waiting...

Not to mention DMC4 can easily be considered the worst game in the series, alongside DMC2. If you don't like the opinons of DMC1 fans, why is that my problem?

Because you've spent this entire time trying to convince me with this ridiculous crusade for DmC?

Convince you about what? DmC is better in many ways, I've explained things about the manual lock on and the performance of the combat. You keep trying to evade those points, like you evaded everything I previously said. No one said you have to agree with that, you can respectfully disagree. Yet you came into this thread for malicious reasons. You came into this thread because you wanted to take your anger out on true DMC fans. You did those things because your are a DMC4 fan, you are not a DMC fan. Unfortunately you found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold. If your not happy with DmC, why can't anyone else prefer it to DMC4? Your insistant to try and control what people think of DMC4 is what has started this. Your crusade for a game that wasn't a true sequel to DMC1 anyway, because you can't take that people didn't want it to continue.

No need for actual gameplay, let's just let players beat up on motionless enemies.

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

At least we've established that DmC's actual missions don't offer anything worthwhile.

In what way are DMC4's boring missions better than DmC's? Not to mention DMC4 is half a game, the second half being a back track of the first half. I suppose your right then, DMC4 was indeed don't offer anything worthwhile what so ever. There it is everyone.

Your definition of fluidity and flexibility is really so sensitive that having to double tap a button is too much for you?

Lol. You really don't read your own comments do you:

At any rate, it's freaking taking your finger off a button. That takes literally less than a hundredth of a second.

Finally you admit that DMC4 was automatic. You see in that time you take your finger off a button, in that 'hundredth of a second'. Its not actually a 'hundreth of a second' by the way, its much longer; hence why there was a lag for certain manouvers like the Evade in DMC4. In that fraction of a second, you the player are at the mercy of the AI. That fraction of a second is determined by the AI, not the player. Hence thus in that time you the player are no longer in control. Thats why games like DMC, MGR and Bayonetta allow for much more fluidity and felxibity. Becuase their lock ons are instintaneous. You never loose control of what your targeting, unless you manually set yourself into neutral. Not to mention DmC features no slow down unlike DMC4's radidus restricted movement. 

In other words, worst comes to worst, you can play DMC4 like you do DmC (which should apparently be much better, right?)

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DmC, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DMC4. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.

Bayonetta uses a control setup that's almost more similar to fighting games than hack and slashes.

Do you actually know anything about action games? Honestly? Which developers are still using the button lock your reffering to? Metal Gear Rising dosen't, Ninja Gaiden dosen't, God of War dosen't, Bayonetta itself has all her moves performable without restricted directions. Now when you say hack and slashes, who or what are you reffering to? Since I don't think you quite understand the restricted camera perspectives and locked directional attacks your reffering to are a thing of the past. What developers are doing now is creating more fluid, more elegant systems, like DmC and Bayonetta. Thats how the genre moves forward. If you like DMC4 so much, good for you. But you can't claim that because you like something more, we have to accept that all action games follow what you say rather than evolve past the clunky mechanics of past games.

Meaning the camera will focus on on the particular enemy you lock on to and keep them as the main object of focus. It doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement being confined to that enemy.

This is what you originally said:

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Your exact words were relative movement based on the position of the enemy. This is not the first time you actually said that. Again like I said, now what your saying is it doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement confined to that enemy. This is the word for word proof you have contradicted yourself yet again. You have tried to change what you've said, yet it cannot be changed. I will keep reposting and reposting this comment, as I will with your other failures. Thats because you've found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold, and you camp homo fan, you have been utterly exposed.

I waiting for a response to this point. RESPOND or hide from this point like the coward you are, which is it camp homo fan scum? I'M WAITING!!!

Like I said, prentending that all these points don't exist to hide your failure, simply won't work. You've been wrong about everything I've said here. Thats why you can't counter these points. You've failed. You've failed to dicate the rights of the DMC community.

Where have I said DMC4 was in the HD collection? Like I said the reason many fans overlooked the HD collection is because a lot of fans were unhappy with the poor quality of DMC4, they decided not to return to DMC.

You should've stuck with "I thought DMC4 was in the HD collection." Your argument would've made more sense.

First off, HD collections routinely sell worse than actual games in the series. The MGS collection sold around 1/5th of what the average MGS game sells. MPT sold 1/3rd of what the average Metroid Prime game sold. DMC's HD collection sold roughly 1/3rd of what the average old DMC title sold, so it's right on schedule with the rest of the series.

Secondly, the notion that people wouldn't buy a new game in the series because the previous one was disliked is an insipid notion in and of itself. It helps to do a bit of looking through the history books here. Devil May Cry 2, remember how awful that was? And remember how DMC3 still sold close to 3 million copies, despite DMC2 being so awful?

A game's sales have little to nothing to do with its previous title. DmC's sales can only be blamed on the community disliking what they saw, plain and simple.

Most of DMC4 Donte's combat is copy and pasted from the DMC3.

If you're referring to the two games sharing similar movesets, sure. But you could make the exact same argument against DmC, which shares a good bit of its moveset with the rest of the series (albeit mapped to different inputs).

Either way, I fail to see why this is a bad thing. DMC3 was incredible; arguably the greatest hack and slash game released to date. Basing a moveset off that game is by no means a bad thing.

Thats why Nero's combat feels more innovative with his combat options, as opposed to DMC4 Donte, which features the same PS2 style of play.

Nero's combat does none of that. First off, Nero features no on the fly weapon switching at all, which is pretty much what has defined the series since DMC3. And before you say "Capcom designed it that way because they were trying to innovate," Nero was originally planned to have multiple weapons he acquired throughout the game before Dante was shoehorned in as a playable character. Nero's combat is outdated and lacking in creativity options. Devil Bringer is an interesting concept, but Nero's lack of any melee weapons outside of Red Queen doom him to by far the worst combat in the series save for DMC2 Dante.

Capcom knew exactly how to innovate the combat. Like I said, why should I believe you over Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan? I'm waiting?

So your argument essentially goes: "It's the next in the series, so it's better."

In that case, answer me this. DMC4 was designed after DMC1, and thus, designed to be an improvement on DMC1. Does that mean DMC4 is now a better game than DMC1?

Lol. This is all you have, insults?

Irony level at 50 and rising.

You also haven't shown me your DMD leaderboard scores which should be at the top of the leaderboard, since you have claimed the game is easy.

PC doesn't have leaderboards. Or did you forget that?

No DMC fan would call Hideki Kamiya or Hideaki Itsuno liars.

I guess "DMC fans" just call Capcom liars instead.

Are you claiming at this point that these are not the words you spoke? Are you denying your denial?

What were the words I spoke? You've got to quote more context then that. 

Capcom and Rebuen Langdon have admitted that DMC4 Dante was designed to be different from previous iterations of the character. Besides Capcom admitted they were aiming for Hollywood style storytelling with DMC4:

And here we are, once again, at the crux of the matter. Designing a character to be different is NOT the same as saying the character IS an entirely different person.

Remember Tony Stark in Iron Man 3. He was asked to play his role differently to make his character seem different in IM3. Tony Stark, however, is the same character throughout all the movies. It's the same way with Dante.

Your not a DMC fan, or you would have never accepted the camp homo.

"You better share my opinion or you're not a DMC fan"

Quality level debate right here, kids.

You can't dent what Hideki Kamiya has already admitted. Yet you can deny to accept it as Devil May Cry, which is exactly what Hideki Kamiya and the original fans have done. You've accepted that camp homo Twilight shit as Devil May Cry, because your not a DMC fan, your a lying DMC4 fan, you will never be anything more than that

#1: This paragraph is utterly hilarious in light of you getting upset at me for "insulting" you earlier.

#2: You can't simply dismiss this as saying that "different development teams said different things." If you have any legitimate post, anywhere, that says that any team currently at Capcom has dismissed DMC4 as non-canon, then link it and I'll concede this entire point. 

The fact of the matter is that no one has claimed DMC4 Dante is non-canon except for Hideki Kamiya. Despite whatever significance he may have to the series, there is no reason to take his word over that of Capcom and Itsuno's.

I've already explained this point. You said I had misrepresented Tameem, yet you didn't explain how:

I said you misrepresented an article written by Eurogamer, not Tameem. And I fully explained how you misrepresented it.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. As I said many times now, DmC has a lock on, its integrated into the L3 stick, DmC does not have an automatic button lock like previous games

First off, there is no such thing as an "automatic button lock."

Secondly, as I've said many times now, that ISN'T a lock on. If it qualifies as a lock on, then let me give you a list of games that have a manual lock on by extension.

Okami, Wonderful 101, Halo, Call of Duty, Galaga, 2D Zelda titles, Batman: Arkham City.

Are you seriously prepared to tell me that all of those games have manual lock on systems, too?

We know this is true as I've already explained; the L3 lock isolates a specific enemy

Yes, but your ability to choose said enemy depends solely on the stick picking one in the general direction of the enemy. If there are 3 or so enemies bunched together in a certain direction, you have no ability whatsoever to decide which of those enemies you want to target, as opposed to DMC3/4, where you can simply cycle through targets until you reach your intended choice.

unlike the button lock of previous games which isolates an enemy based on the AI's decision, the player has less control of that decision as you already admitted;

Your claim that the AI simply "decides" which enemy to pick, as if it was some kind of random choice, is a gigantic misrepresentation. The AI selection in DMC3/4 and DmC are actually quite similar in that they will pick an enemy to target based on movement and relative position. If you're facing an enemy, and you lock on to it, it will pick the enemy you're facing (assuming there's only one enemy) in a similar fashion to DmC. The only difference is that if you're not happy with the enemy the AI picked for you to select, you can change it in DMC3/4.

That difference is what makes DMC3/4's lock on systems manual.

Actually wrong again. DmC console sales have outsold the HD collection, we know this since DmC sold 1.15 mil hard copies on consoles.

'Tis false, DmC shipped 1.15 million and sold roughly 900 K on consoles.

Then you put your foot in your mouth again by trying to deny that you said those words in the first place: 

If you're going to lie, you could at least make it believable. I readily admitted that I mispoke. I never claimed that I didn't mispeak.

At any rate, you're simply going to ignore what the creator of your favorite DmC game said, so I see little point in continuing this debate. You'll simply hide from whatever proof I show you, because you can't admit that you were wrong. You can't admit that the DMC fanbase preferred DMC4 to DmC, despite it outselling the game by nearly a 3:1 proportion. You can't admit that DmC has an automatic lock on system, despite the creator of the game, the developer of the game, and the entire DMC fanbase saying otherwise. All you can do is harp on a slip of the tongue and try to make an argument from that.

It's pathetic, really. 

If you ever decide to actually start listening to what the developers of your supposed favorite game actually say, then let me know and this might be worth continuing. Otherwise, feel free to continually scream at the wall.

It won't make DmC any less rejected by the DMC fanbase.

You should've stuck with "I thought DMC4 was in the HD collection." Your argument would've made more sense.

Again where have I said that? Prove it, just like I have shown you word for word where you discredited yourself.

And remember how DMC3 still sold close to 3 million copies, despite DMC2 being so awful?

DMC3 actually sold 2.3 mil copies. It actually only sold 1.3 mil copies then another 1 mil copies when the Special Edition was released. DMC2 did arguabilly have an impact on the sales. Just like many fans have not returned because of the poor quality of DMC4.

A game's sales have little to nothing to do with its previous title.

Lol.

But you could make the exact same argument against DmC, which shares a good bit of its moveset with the rest of the series (albeit mapped to different inputs).

DmC's moveset has been reprogammed and reanimated by Ninja Theory. With DMC4 Capcom simply used exactly the same moveset for Dante.

DMC3 was incredible; arguably the greatest hack and slash game released to date. Basing a moveset off that game is by no means a bad thing.

Looks like someones fanboy just got out. Better stop it before its too late... Too late.

DMC3 is not the greatest melee action game released to date. For the PS2, yes DMC3 is arguabilly the best. When compared to games like DmC or Bayonetta, there is simply no contest. Either way if your such a huge DMC3 fan as you claim where are your DMC3 trophies? Like I said your a lying DMC4 fan nothing more, hence why you have not shown me your trophies.

So your argument essentially goes: "It's the next in the series, so it's better."

Again you try to put words into my mouth because you can't disprove what I've said. No I've never said that. I've said Capcom discussed and implemented changes that were an improvment. If you have a problem with that I suggest you tell Hideaki Itsuno you know better than him. When Hideaki Itsuno admits that you are more qualified than him to design a DMC game I will take you seriosuly. Yet you have been ignoring this point since the very beggining, becasue you are a lying coward who will never answer the hard questions as I have.

 In that case, answer me this. DMC4 was designed after DMC1, and thus, designed to be an improvement on DMC1. Does that mean DMC4 is now a better game than DMC1?

DMC4's combat is better than DMC1's for obvious reasons. However as I said before and I demonstrated with the link I posted, there was no intention of DMC4 acting as a sequel to DMC1. It was deisnged to be some shitty Hollywood game, not a Devil May Cry game. Yet you blindly accepted it because you are a lying camp homo fan, nothing more.

PC doesn't have leaderboards. Or did you forget that?

Lol. Your a lying DMC4 fan, you can get the game for PS3 or Xbox and prove you know what your talking about. Yet you won't because you know everything you've said is a lie, and you have been utterly exposed. All you have is defending that camp homo Twilight shit in a forum, instead of telling the truth.

What were the words I spoke? You've got to quote more context then that.

Here:

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI cycles through said targets until you reach the one you want? 

Those are your own words, not mine; by your own admission DMC4 is an automatic system. I'm waiting for you explaination as to how an automatic system can be manual. I'm waiting camp homo fan!

To avoid answering this question you posted this denial: 

No, actually, those are your words, in case you forgot. Those are the same, stupid words you've been quoting for three pages over now. Screaming them at the top of your lungs doesn't mean anyone else has said it.

You tried to pretend that these were not your words at all. You denied your own words until I posted this:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=172739&page=9

Again  I suggest you have a look at putting your foot in your mouth, since now your doubling back on your original words. Unfortuantely here in a forum I can easily go back and prove that you did indeed put your foot in your mouth, which you have just done again with that denial. Now your just running around in circles avoiding the words you've spoken. You've been exposed. You can't hide from your own words in a forum camp homo fan scum

I guess "DMC fans" just call Capcom liars instead.

Link?! I've never called Capcom liars. I've admitted DMC4 was not their best work. Yet I've never called them liars. Besides Capcom admitted that DMC3 was designed to be a reboot of the series. Hence why DMC3 is not cannonically consistant with DMC1 and the graphic novels produced by Hideki Kamiya. Those novels had to be removed for DMC3 and 4 to exist. Thats not calling Capcom liars, thats a dispassionate appraisal of the series. You seem to think that just becasue something has the numbers 2,3 and 4 on the box those games are cannonically consistant with their predecessors. Unfortunately I can think for myself, I don't need DMC4 fans to think for me.

And here we are, once again, at the crux of the matter. Designing a character to be different is NOT the same as saying the character IS an entirely different person.

The camp homo is not Dante.

"You better share my opinion or you're not a DMC fan"

Again putting words in my mouth to hide the fact that you thought this:

Was the same as this:

Quality debate right here kids. This scum is calling the creator of the DMC series a liar. Like I said, just because you call Hideki Kamiya a liar, explain why I have to agree with you?

I said you misrepresented an article written by Eurogamer, not Tameem. And I fully explained how you misrepresented it.

Yet I still explained this point and discredited you. A point which you have yet to counter.

First off, there is no such thing as an "automatic button lock."

Are you saying that R1 is not a button?

Secondly, as I've said many times now, that ISN'T a lock on. If it qualifies as a lock on, then let me give you a list of games that have a manual lock on by extension.

According to Ninja Theory in the interview you yourself posted, it is an automatic lock on. Which I agree with based on the parameters of what that means. Now are you calling Ninja Theory and Capcom liars? If so why should I believe you?

Are you seriously prepared to tell me that all of those games have manual lock on systems, too?

Those games have their own systems and engines in place that function differently from DMC. I'm not going to waste my time examining every game you can think of because you can't explain how DmC dosen't have a lock on. Its as waste of my time. You keep running away with a new excuse becasue you know you cannot explain yourself.

Yes, but your ability to choose said enemy depends solely on the stick picking one in the general direction of the enemy.

There you have it everyone, the DMC4 fan scum admits it was wrog. Besides how are you manually picking what enemy you want if your not moving in the direction of the enemy?

If there are 3 or so enemies bunched together in a certain direction, you have no ability whatsoever to decide which of those enemies you want to target,

Wrong again, DmC allows you to isolate enemies at close proximity.

Your claim that the AI simply "decides" which enemy to pick, as if it was some kind of random choice, is a gigantic misrepresentation.

Again where have I said its a 'random' choice? I've never said that. Your putting words in my mouth again because you know your wrong. Its not a random choice, its just not a choice decided manually by the player. Its an automated process decided by the AI not the player. This is inferior to a fully manual lock-on, which is featured in DmC.

The only difference is that if you're not happy with the enemy the AI picked for you to select, you can change it in DMC3/4.

You have put your foot in your mouth yet again Nero and Kyrie fan scum, yet again:

The only difference is that if you're not happy with the enemy the AI picked for you to select, you can change it in DMC3/4.

If your not happy with the enemy the AI picked for you, how are you in full manual control of what your targetting? As with your other failures I will keep reposting and reposting this one until you answer for it. You have a habit of avoiding questions you can't answer.

'Tis false, DmC shipped 1.15 million and sold roughly 900 K on consoles.

You got a problem with DmC's sales, take it up with Capcom. Don't tell me I have to accept your sales figures when Capcom have quoted something different.

It's pathetic, really.

Whats pathetic is that you have still not responded to this points, you have still not shown me your DMD leaderboard scores, you have still not shown me you trophies for the DMC HD collection. We both know your a lying DMC4 fan. Trying to attack someones grammar in an Internet forum (thats how pathetic you are) will not change that you have not shown me any of these things yet.

You made it crystal clear when you put your foot in your mouth and admitted DMC4 was indeed automatic:

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting your target if the AI cycles through said targets until you reach the one you want? 

However hard you try, you cannot change the truth. Who are you trying to convince here? You won't even show me your trophies for the DMC HD collection. We both know your a lying DMC4 fan, you can't change that you've been exposed. You can't change that the camp homo is not Dante, he never was. 

Enough of the fanbase still remains to make a freaking re-release of titles from TWO generations ago outsell DmC.

Evidently not. Thats clearly how badly DMC4 damaged the series with that camp homo Twilight shit.

Except it's not just my defintion. Go visit the Devil May Cry boards across the internet, and see what the fanbase says.

What fanbase? Stop relying on others to get you out of this mess and take some responsibility for your words. The fanbase does not exist as a unified entity. There are many original DMC fans who hated DMC4 and didn't want it to continue. There are many DMC fans who have never played all of the games. The only way to ascertain who is a true fan or not is to examine what that fan says on an indivdiual level. You need to create a blurred ambigious representation of the fanbase to pretend DMC4 was widely accepted and generally loved by the fans. It wasn't, even Capcom admitted they didn't see a future in the camp homo Twilight shit. The only fans who agree with you are the ones like you, who think DMC4 was a good game. If they were here I would say exactly the same thing I've said to you. They have no chance against someone armed with the truth. Thats why they stay in their little DMC4 groups, pretending that DMC4 was the only game in the series that mattered.

And here's a topic where a DmC fan claims that DmC having an automatic lock on system is better than DMC having a manual one.

I don't care about a topic I'm not actively involved in. Thats nothing to do with me. If I was involved in that topic I would explain how the lock on works to the parties involved; however I'm not involved so its nothing to do with me. You've come to me lying about Devil May Cry, and I've exposed you. You now need to rely on outside influences to try and dig your way out. It won't work, we both know your a lying DMC4 fan at this point. Nothing you can say will change how you've been exposed.

Certainly, and if you want to like DmC, you're welcome to. But let's remember who came on here first, crying about Dante being too silly and yelling about how I was a "lying DMC4 fan."

You came into this Ninja Theory thread to attack them. Like I said before, unfortunately you found a DMC1 fan waiting in the fold; now your cowardly doubling back on your intentions for coming into this thread. You won't admit you came into this thread to attack Ninja Theory and lie for your camp homo, because you are a cowardly DMC4 fan who has been exposed. Your denial of why you came into this thread in the first place exposes you for what you are camp homo fan scum.

I'm also waiting for all these points you cowardly avoided last time camp homo fan!

Are you talking about Angel Evade, or Angel Dash? Because those two things are very different.

Lol. HAHAHA. When you didn't know about the move, you claim their different moves. Angel Evade is the equilivant of Trickster Dash. That player modded it for whatever reason. You don't like that you were exposd not my problem.

Yeah, the entire community that made DMC4 outsell DmC 3:1, right? That's some definite preferral there.

Where are all these fans now? Numbers mean very little without context. Theres no point in me explaining the contextual factors to you because at the end of that day you will never admit that DMC4 was not a true sequel to Devil May Cry 1. You will continue to pretend that DMC4 was a good game because of the sales and nothing to do witht the qaulity of the game itself, which was abysmal when comapred to other action games.

 No, it's an example of a horribly broken combat system that allows amateur players to perform infinite air combos with little to no skill required.

Its not broken if its designed to be like that! Its designed to allow greater aerial mobility and aerial combat options, which allows amateur players to do that. It dosen't mean that you have to play the game that way. The game gives you the option of playing the game in that way if you don't have sufficent skill. Thats how DmC is better in another way. It has more combat options for those who don't have the skill to play at a higher level. Yet its beyond your limited thinking to understand how giving the player more combat options is better than having less combat options, like the abomination DMC4.

You also not so subtlely side stepped these points before because you knew you coulnd't answer them. I've reposted your exposure for your convience:

I'm not arguing here that the game's most complex combos are simple to pull off. I'm arguing that the skill level required to beat the game is incredibly low as opposed to previous titles.

Then prove it, show me the game is incredibly easy to beat. Show me your DMD leaderboard scores. We both know you have no chance of finishing the game, because its not easy what so ever on the upper difficulties. If it was you would prove it no problem.

That doesn't do ANYTHING for start up time. The start up time is the EXACT SAME regardless of the movement's duration.

You keep changing the discussion because you lost on the previous point, since you didn't know about Caliber. The start up time for most moves are about the same duration as DMC4, some moves are faster (see Drive) some moves are slower. DmC's moves are of course a cut above because Ninja Theory are animation experts.

Like I said, I'm sure people who put enough time and effort into the game can do amazing things with DmC. People can also do amazing things with DMC2. Does that make it a good game as well?

Don't know about DMC2. Yet your argument works both ways; people can do some interesting things with DMC4. Is it a good game? Well no, not really, its terrible in nearly every respect. Especially with the camp homo butchering an icon. Either way, its not for you to decide what someone else considers a good game or not. According to Capcom this is the best DMC game they designed. If you have an opinion with that, tell it to HIdeaki Itsuno. Don't make it my problem your calling Hideaki Itusno incompitent or a liar. That is simply not my problem.

The point is that DmC's combat, on a surface level, is incredibly broken, and people have to find ways to work around that. That isn't a good action game.

Your opinion is not a fact. If you think DmC's combat is broken, thats your own opinion. Don't tell me I have to get in line with someone because they wanted DMC4 to continue. Its not my problem you liked the camp homo, nor is it my problem Capcom consider this their most compitent combat engine to date. If you can't accept that, why do I have to believe you?

Or, you know, maybe he was testing a game without a lock on button to see how it would work. Ever think about that?

Maybe, maybe not. Capcom haven't confirmed that. Unfortunatley I don't go in for consipiracy theories. Nor do I take well to DMC4 fans telling me I have to accept theres. Besides we've established at this point DmC contains the series first manual lock on compared to the automatic lock on of previous games. You even said that yourself, yet had to amend your words when you failed agian.

...and my error was where? Substituting a Spanish word in? You really thought that was unintentional?

You made a comment about English literacy, yet you use Spanish words. Way to contradict and put your foot in your mouth again.

And yeah, sure, I can understand, grammar mistakes do happen on the internet. Yours happen with such frequency that I'm beginning to wonder whether you even finished first grade.

HAHAH. There you go again, you make grammar mistakes so you have to amend your words to contain your own shortcommings. Besides I don't care about grammar mistakes, I'm interested in facts, since you have no facts, you resort to grammar mistakes... The ultimate takedown for someone who keeps putting their foot in their mouth.

And besides, you're criticizing the way Dante looks? Really? You're as bad as those DmC fans who claim that the only reason we don't like DmC is because Dante underwent an outfit change.

What can I say, I'm a DMC1 fan, I don't accept camp homo imposters. Not to mention DMC1 Dante never wore red cowboy boots, because its not Dante to dress homosexually. You seem to think it was.

"DmC" is still a "DMC" game, or, at the very least, it's trying to be.

Its true DmC exceeds the combat of the previous games, according to the fans, the developers and the reviewers. Like I said you got a problem with that, then take it up with Hideaki Itusno and tell him you can do his job better. I'm waiting...

Not to mention DMC4 can easily be considered the worst game in the series, alongside DMC2. If you don't like the opinons of DMC1 fans, why is that my problem?

Because you've spent this entire time trying to convince me with this ridiculous crusade for DmC?

Convince you about what? DmC is better in many ways, I've explained things about the manual lock on and the performance of the combat. You keep trying to evade those points, like you evaded everything I previously said. No one said you have to agree with that, you can respectfully disagree. Yet you came into this thread for malicious reasons. You came into this thread because you wanted to take your anger out on true DMC fans. You did those things because your are a DMC4 fan, you are not a DMC fan. Unfortunately you found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold. If your not happy with DmC, why can't anyone else prefer it to DMC4? Your insistant to try and control what people think of DMC4 is what has started this. Your crusade for a game that wasn't a true sequel to DMC1 anyway, because you can't take that people didn't want it to continue.

No need for actual gameplay, let's just let players beat up on motionless enemies.

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

At least we've established that DmC's actual missions don't offer anything worthwhile.

In what way are DMC4's boring missions better than DmC's? Not to mention DMC4 is half a game, the second half being a back track of the first half. I suppose your right then, DMC4 was indeed don't offer anything worthwhile what so ever. There it is everyone.

Your definition of fluidity and flexibility is really so sensitive that having to double tap a button is too much for you?

Lol. You really don't read your own comments do you:

At any rate, it's freaking taking your finger off a button. That takes literally less than a hundredth of a second.

Finally you admit that DMC4 was automatic. You see in that time you take your finger off a button, in that 'hundredth of a second'. Its not actually a 'hundreth of a second' by the way, its much longer; hence why there was a lag for certain manouvers like the Evade in DMC4. In that fraction of a second, you the player are at the mercy of the AI. That fraction of a second is determined by the AI, not the player. Hence thus in that time you the player are no longer in control. Thats why games like DMC, MGR and Bayonetta allow for much more fluidity and felxibity. Becuase their lock ons are instintaneous. You never loose control of what your targeting, unless you manually set yourself into neutral. Not to mention DmC features no slow down unlike DMC4's radidus restricted movement. 

In other words, worst comes to worst, you can play DMC4 like you do DmC (which should apparently be much better, right?)

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DmC, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DMC4. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.

Bayonetta uses a control setup that's almost more similar to fighting games than hack and slashes.

Do you actually know anything about action games? Honestly? Which developers are still using the button lock your reffering to? Metal Gear Rising dosen't, Ninja Gaiden dosen't, God of War dosen't, Bayonetta itself has all her moves performable without restricted directions. Now when you say hack and slashes, who or what are you reffering to? Since I don't think you quite understand the restricted camera perspectives and locked directional attacks your reffering to are a thing of the past. What developers are doing now is creating more fluid, more elegant systems, like DmC and Bayonetta. Thats how the genre moves forward. If you like DMC4 so much, good for you. But you can't claim that because you like something more, we have to accept that all action games follow what you say rather than evolve past the clunky mechanics of past games.

Meaning the camera will focus on on the particular enemy you lock on to and keep them as the main object of focus. It doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement being confined to that enemy.

This is what you originally said:

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Your exact words were relative movement based on the position of the enemy. This is not the first time you actually said that. Again like I said, now what your saying is it doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement confined to that enemy. This is the word for word proof you have contradicted yourself yet again. You have tried to change what you've said, yet it cannot be changed. I will keep reposting and reposting this comment, as I will with your other failures. Thats because you've found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold, and you camp homo fan, you have been utterly exposed.

I waiting for a response to this point. RESPOND or hide from this point like the coward you are, which is it camp homo fan scum? I'M WAITING!!!

Like I said, prentending that all these points don't exist to hide your failure, simply won't work. You've been wrong about everything I've said here. Thats why you can't counter these points. You've failed. You've failed to dicate the rights of the DMC community.

You are a coward. You attack Ninja Theory here on a forum because you are too cowardly to do anything else. I admit I think the previous DMC games needed improvements. Yet I have platinumed the HD collection, i have actively contributed to the games and I have given a balanced critique of where improvements were needed. I don't attack Capcom like you have. Your not a DMC fan, you cowardly scum lying about a developer on the Internet because you think a camp homo was Dante.

god take your wall of texts out of here and argue in a private conversation guys!

I literally saw like 6+ pages of this!

The essays in here...

well this is disappointing news. considering its true that is.

Apologies. I thought this topic was pretty much dead. 

At any rate, this kid still hasn't come up with a response as to why he suddenly gets to dismiss what Tameem says after spending the last 3 pages or so attempting to call me out for doing the same to a past creator. I'm not wasting my time on this subject any longer. When you learn how to debate with some semblance of intelligence, come back and let me know.

all that and it still wasnt resolved!!

Well, hey. Iran and Israel have been at it for decades and they haven't gotten anything resolved in that time. This doesn't look so bad by comparison. :p