fatslob-:O said:
eyeofcore said:
fatslob-:O said:
The real question here is the game going to show all 4K-8K textures at once ? I presume that they won't because the WII U is severely lacking memory bandwidth, memory size, as well as TMUs to even attempt showing every detail of the texture. The engine that they have is probably modified to support john carmacks megatexture technology to dynamically stream textures at a different resolution. |
Are you suggesting that the edram is just 512 bits wide? Just by checking Renesas eDRAM at 40nm you can clearly see that 512 bits wide is no longer supported, we have 1024, 4096 and 8192 bits besides, Xbox 360 has a 4096bits eDRAM on seperate die with 8 ROPS having full access to the internal edram bandwidth of 256GB/s, the drawback is that since its on a separate die, the resolve from eDRAM to GPU has to pass through an external bus of 32GB/s
Sum that with the fact that Wii U main RAM doesnt have huge bandwidth, its obvious that no matter how good a port of an Xbox 360 game is, it would not even run on the Wii U system, and even worse talking about lazy ports. Xbox 36'has just 10 MB of eDRAM and only 1 MB of cache, while the Wii U has triple in both memories. But when you do a direct port, the source code telsl Wii U to use just 10 MB of edram and only 1 MB of cache and all the code that could fit there goes to the slower main ra since the source code tells the Wii Uto do so.
Of course that developers can change this, but will take time to reallocate resources and determinee what fits in the eDRAM and cache, and what does not
and you think they would do it? pfff, in most cases they dont since they are in a hurry, just by seeing that Call Of Duty Ghosts has the same resolution as the Xbox 360 conterpart that is gets port from even though Wii U has more eDRAM to solve it one can tell that it was a quick port.
but of course that sicne is a port the dsp in must cases goes to waist and even worse the developers waste one of the cores of the wii u cpu for sound
Xbox 360 uses one core for sound so when you port you also waste one of the 3 cores of the wiiu cpu for sound instead of using the DSP in other words, that extra core could have been used for something else is like if the wiiu actually had 4 cores in a way compared to Xbox 360 if audio was done on DSP and all 3 cores were used for games. But of course that since is a port the DSP in most cases goes to waste and even worse the developers waste one of the cores of the Wii U CPU for sound.
Why would Nintendo use a shorter eDRAM than Xbox 360 anyway? Renesas(NEC the previous producer of the Xbox 360's edRAM now forms part of Renesas) already said that eDRAM in Wii U uses latest tecnologies and Shin'en says that Wii U eDRAM has high bandwidth. Do you know the fact that eDRAM is in Wii U's GPU that it is embedded into the GPU and not on seperate die like on Xbox 360.
"Nintendo could try to contract another company to produce the component, but there are circumstances that make it difficult. According to a Renesas executive the production of that semiconductor was the result of the “secret sauce” and state-of-the-art know-how part of the NEC heritage of the Tsuruoka plant, making production elsewhere difficult. In order to restart mass production in a different factory redesigning the component may be necessary."
"Wii U GPU and its API are straightforward. Has plenty of high bandwidth memory. Really easy."
"Especially easy when compared with the tricks you need to do on current gen consoles."
“What surprises me with Wii U is that we don’t have many technical problems. It’s really running very well, in fact. We’re not obliged to constantly optimize things. Even on the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions [of Origins], we had some fill-rate issues and things like that. So it’s partly us – we improved the engine – but I think the console is quite powerful. Surprisingly powerful. And there’ a lot of memory. You can really have huge textures, and it’s crazy because sometimes the graphic artist – we built our textures in very high-dentition. They could be used in a movie. Then we compress them, but sometimes they forget to do the compression and it still works! [Laughs] So yeah, it’s quite powerful. It’s hard sometimes when you’re one of the first developers because it’s up to you to come up with solutions to certain problems. But the core elements of the console are surprisingly powerful."
I know you will deny itand try to disprove it, what are you suggesting is not proven and it is based on a rumor that you state as a fact and the thread creator of that rumor himself said it is a rumor and to treat as one yet you don't treat it as rumor, but rather as a fact/evidence.
As Renesas said in their statement/response, it uses state-of-the-art eDRAM so it means most up to date and best of the best possible...
You will say that Shin'en is not credible because they make games only for platform's from Nintendo yet they do soundtracks for games and they did it for 200 games also they do audio middleware that is used on various platforms. Another thing that you will use to discredit Shin'en is that they have positive opinion/attitude to Wii U compared to other large/mainstream developers that are/were negative about it while you will also discredit them again by saying that they are a small team and not a large developer thus you will question their capabilities, knowledge and experience even when they have over couple of decades of experience and were part of demo scene in 1990is thus they have more experience in compression and optimization.
I know that you will try to disprove the statement of Michel Ancel that works for Ubisoft for almost 20 years! He is a game designer also a programmer and graphic artist so he knows what he is talking about thus he can firmly confirm and prove own statements.
Tell me, how is it that I can even surpass those 35GB/s specs you are claiming for the whole 32 megabytes of eDRAM with just 4 megabytes of embedded memory of the old Nintendo Gamecube?
How did you calculate the bandwidth anyway?
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@Bold Just how much pointless shit are you going to post just to respond to me ?
Why is it "pointless shit"? It is above all on topic and in directly related to your statements and it involved bandwidth, crucial/important difference between Wii U and Xbox 360 also it is aimed at your post/reply so I assume that you are avoiding this part that you call it "pointless shit".
"Secret sauce" ? Really dude ? I guess you don't really know how semiconductor foundries work then, eh ? Renesas were the ones DESIGNING the the eDRAM and the who FABBED it was TSMC. If renesas were to go under it would mean shit to nintendo because they can just liscence the IP from them to continue manufacturing the WII U.
I was quoting("") the article. tell me something that I don't know... I love how you presume that and that thing about me.
Renesas designed eDRAM and itproduces eDRAM and the GPU in own fabs because eDRAM is embedded into GPU while TSMC is just an alternative just in case if Renesas goes under, you did not read the article? Right? Please read before arguing; ARTICLE
Quote from article;
"As part of that restructuring Renesas, that merged with NEC Electronics in 2012, announced that it decided to close four semiconductor plants in Japan within 2-3 years, including the state-of-the-art factory based in Tsuruoka, Yamagata Prefecture (as reported by the Wall Street Journal), and this may spell trouble for Nintendo and the Wii U.
The reason is quite simple. The closing factory was responsible for manufacturing the console’s Embedded DRAM, that is quite properly defined the “life stone” of the console."
What do you understand by manufacturing?
Duh. The WII U is SUPPOSED to be easier to develop for becuase it has better programmablility. (Again don't give me pointless shit in your post becuase I have followed alot of tech sites while doing some research and I'm not clueless to these subjects.)
Another thing that I already know... :/
Of course is easier, but if its a port what can you expect?
Even the PlayStation 4 version/build of Assassin Creed Black Flag doesn't look that impressive on PlayStation 4 despite how powerful it is and the fact that is even easier to develop for since it has no eDRAM, but rather just main RAM! So no matter how lazy/sloppy the developers are that should ease things a lot, yet they fail to bring impressive port/build with all of those advantages!
What about the rayman legends creator saying that the WII U is "powerful" ? The word "power" is a vague term once again.
Word power is not a vague term, nice try. What about him you say and I already pointed out that he is a graphic artist and a programmer so he is not just a game designer since he works with the hardware and he codes for it! He says that Wii U's hardware is powerful since he worked on it and programmed for it, he said that the game worked with uncompressed textures on Wii U so it takes more RAM and also more resources because more data is processed.
Wow your really hurt about another man over the internet, aren't you ? Your afraid of somebody disproving you ?! *Facepalm*
You are just forcing the premise that is not correct and why I would be hurt over a person that I don't know? It is inlogical and you are trying to provoke me since you are a troll and force a rumor as a fact thus damaging your own credibility. If I was afraid then I would not be responding to you in the first place so you should be facepalming to yourself and not to me for asking these two question.
Who the hell cares what renesas says ?! I want to see the end result!
So nobody cares about a statement from a company that designed and produces eDRAM for Wii U? It was said by a Renesas executive and not by some guy on a forum that may or may not be correct, this is straight from Renesas its self and when DualShockers wrote "secret sauce" that means that it is most likely a custom design and "state-of-the-art know-how" literally means/hints use of best of the best is being applied to the Wii U. If you want results then wait, its like chemistry the result is not instant nor designing a weapon too like mortars. It needs time to shine like on PLayStation 3, like on Xbox 360 like the Source engine.
You can not get the result right from the start... :P
By your logic we would have seen everything from start in every console/handheld/mobile/technology generation... Your logic. :/
Who gives a damn about shin'en ?! Are they really that important ?!
Same could be said for Crytek, Rare, Sony Santa Monica, Guerilla Games, Valve, ID Software, Epic Games, etc... When they were small and not really relevant also they are really that important because they use the hardware and they will try to get most out of and you forgot that these guys came from demo scene with different principles than modern day programmers.
Look at FAST Racing League and Jet Rocket that people would have think it is a game on Xbox 360 and not on Wii and Shin'en did things that other did not on Wii, including ambient occlusion in theri games. Don't doubt these guys that were in PC demo scene.
More people ?! Wow man you really can't defend your own grounds.
DID I CLAIM THAT THE eDRAM ONLY HAD 35GB/s BANDWIDTH ? (Again your lack of english understanding makes everyone confused.)
Seriously?
Sorry for the misunderstanding then, so would you be so kind to tell me how much you think it has?
Can you also at the very least provide some kind of proof like a formula to calculate it?
And please, don't forget I can get about 10GB/s of bandwidth with just 1 MB of the old embedded memory on the Gamecube's GPU!
Please answer the last two questions involving bandwidth!
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