By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Xboxers Bashing PS4 For Reliability Issues Is Comically Ironic

forevercloud3000 on 18 November 2013
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:

I just don't think that because MS (and Nintendo) has been guilty of this, that Sony should somehow be off the hook. 

We should not accept sub-par products. We should expect quality. If the multi-billion companies we give our hard-earned cash to do not deliver on this, they need to be held accountable. Stop the apologetics, stop the rationalizations - Sony deserves the bad publicity it is getting.


But that is just it, its not some sub-par product. The system is going through stereotypical yield issues at it's launch. Some are trying to inflate the numbers to give them a worse appearance than they actually are.

Like the article describes, this is no way the second coming of RROD yet. Reading some of these articles tho you would think it was.

This is exactly the type of apologetic behaviour that I think is simply unacceptable. There is no such thing as "stereotypical yield issues at at's launch" unless we come to accept these things as somehow normal and to be expected.

The PS4 is a closed eco-system. There is no excuse for it not to work perfectly under normal conditions. What we are seeing here is Sony simply allowing a sub-quality product to be shipped in order to meet Christmas deadlines. Nobody should be OK with this.

yield issues are an unavoidable occurance when electronics go into production. This means that no matter how careful they could be, error is going to happen.  That is why they are seen as normal. Its mostly about trying to keep the numbers of these issue as low as possible. This situation right here......is pretty damn low. 

Its a lot like how the food industry works. All of our food has small traces of contaminants like rat feces or insects. Its not a question of does it have or doesn't, they all do. Its a question of "how much". There is no reasonable/realistic way from stopping it entirely.

Why this is being expected of Sony, god only knows...


Are they that low though? Do we have comparative numbers with other electronics, like say the IPad 5?

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pop/lm_failureRates.html

according to this site the avg electronic failure rate is 15% in a 2-3yr period

IPad 2 = 9.8%

iPhone 5 = 5%+

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-360-failure-rate-237-ps3-10-wii-27-study/1100-6216691/

PS3 = 10%

Wii = 2.7%

http://consumerist.com/2009/08/17/xbox-360-failure-rate-is-542-percent-game-informer-finds/

Xbox360 = 54%, but now down to about 15% depending on who you talk to.

2-3 year period. What is the failure rate for these after 3 days?

On Amazon.com right now, the two highest voted reviews on the PS4 are both about broken consoles. There are hundreds of reviews about this issue. Yes, we expect a few lemons in the apple bowl, but I think you are being disingeneous if you think the PS4 failure rate is normal and to be expected within existing norms.

and you believe the number of reviews on Amazon because?

How are their user reviews any different then the User Reviews on Metacritic? They are full of people trying to pass an agenda. Some of them are probably true but that not indicative of a mass problem. If you want to take that anecdotal evidence as gospel then the fact that no one has complained to my store yet about failures should mean that they are non existent.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Around the Network
Licence on 18 November 2013
TheSting said:
JoeTheBro said:
TheSting said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:

I just don't think that because MS (and Nintendo) has been guilty of this, that Sony should somehow be off the hook. 

We should not accept sub-par products. We should expect quality. If the multi-billion companies we give our hard-earned cash to do not deliver on this, they need to be held accountable. Stop the apologetics, stop the rationalizations - Sony deserves the bad publicity it is getting.


But that is just it, its not some sub-par product. The system is going through stereotypical yield issues at it's launch. Some are trying to inflate the numbers to give them a worse appearance than they actually are.

Like the article describes, this is no way the second coming of RROD yet. Reading some of these articles tho you would think it was.

After a couple of days how in the world do you know? If the Xbox guys are fanning the flames like crazy like you keep suggesting aren't you defending it like crazy without knowledge? Or you somehow don't see what you're doing? 


He's just being logical, sorry. These consoles are the biggest launches in history so the amount of day one bricks is also the highest its ever been. You'll get to see for yourself in 4 days when all the stupid FUD starts spreading about XBONE having issues.


No one even knows if all the systems have been taken out of their boxes. Christmas gifts maybe bday gifts. It's not logical at all. Most won't write a review. They will just try to exchange or call Sony. If I get a broken Xbox I'm not going to wrack jack. I'm going to call Xbox and try to remedy the situation. 

With me buying at launch I know full well there may be problems. I'm definitely not going to go on the internet to defend like crazy like I've seen. The damage control is just funny to me. I hope neither system goes haywire but in my experience only Nintendo makes great hardware. Sony sucks and MS with the 360 was downright nasty. 

To be fair, the WiiU was not exactly perfect. There was the bricking issue (which I think is still not resolved), and widely reported instability with specific games. I don't think Nintendo is excused at all.

If you live in a 3rd world country (I used to live in South Africa), then having a console brick up because of sudden loss of power is an unacceptable risk. And expecting everyone to download Gb's of data on day 1 is also not practical for everyone (in SA again, you could pay close to $100 for 5Gb's of data depending on what plan you have). Why are we allowing corporations to get away with such bad service? Because we simply do. And amazingly, we even DEFEND them as this thread is so clearly showing.



SvennoJ on 18 November 2013
Licence said:

You absolutely hit the nail on the head - we are being used to beta test their hardware for them. But I don't find this at all acceptable. We are not talking about a device that has unlimited unforeseen uses (compare with an IPad, for example, where Apple has no way to predict what people are going to use the device for). We are talking about an isolated electronics product that sits below a TV set and does nothing else than being plugged in all day. You can test that extensively and cheaply BEFORE shipping it out to customers.

Tell that to my cable provider, I'm on my 5th cable box :( Apparently they think replacing them for free is better than making a quaility product.

Btw you're talking about software when comparing the ps4 to an iPad. There's not difference from a hardware perspective.
Yes you can test every unit by plugging it in and let it go through a test cycle for a month before shipping. Not cheaply though.

It's simple economics, with a 0.4% estimated failure rate they can sell it for 399,- and still make money on it.

What do you think would happen if you get 3 versions that look and work identical, item A $399,- with 0.4% estimated failure rate, item B with higher quality components $799,- with 0.04% estimated failure rate,  item C $1500 individually tested guaranteed working model.
Item B works in the AV equipment world, never heard of item C though.



Licence on 18 November 2013
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:

2-3 year period. What is the failure rate for these after 3 days?

On Amazon.com right now, the two highest voted reviews on the PS4 are both about broken consoles. There are hundreds of reviews about this issue. Yes, we expect a few lemons in the apple bowl, but I think you are being disingeneous if you think the PS4 failure rate is normal and to be expected within existing norms.

and you believe the number of reviews on Amazon because?

How are their user reviews any different then the User Reviews on Metacritic? They are full of people trying to pass an agenda. Some of them are probably true but that not indicative of a mass problem. If you want to take that anecdotal evidence as gospel then the fact that no one has complained to my store yet about failures should mean that they are non existent.


Oh, you expect a fair number of unfair reviews. But 100's? That seems to me like ignoring the elephant in the room.

Can you point to another electronics product on Amazon that has 100's of defective reviews, yet the general consensus is that the product is fine?



Licence on 18 November 2013
SvennoJ said:
Licence said:
 

You absolutely hit the nail on the head - we are being used to beta test their hardware for them. But I don't find this at all acceptable. We are not talking about a device that has unlimited unforeseen uses (compare with an IPad, for example, where Apple has no way to predict what people are going to use the device for). We are talking about an isolated electronics product that sits below a TV set and does nothing else than being plugged in all day. You can test that extensively and cheaply BEFORE shipping it out to customers.

Tell that to my cable provider, I'm on my 5th cable box :( Apparently they think replacing them for free is better than making a quaility product.

Btw you're talking about software when comparing the ps4 to an iPad. There's not difference from a hardware perspective.
Yes you can test every unit by plugging it in and let it go through a test cycle for a month before shipping. Not cheaply though.

It's simple economics, with a 0.4% estimated failure rate they can sell it for 399,- and still make money on it.

What do you think would happen if you get 3 versions that look and work identical, item A $399,- with 0.4% estimated failure rate, item B with higher quality components $799,- with 0.04% estimated failure rate,  item C $1500 individually tested guaranteed working model.
Item B works in the AV equipment world, never heard of item C though.

I get your point and its a fair one, but if Sony is going to save $$$'s at our expense, then they deserve the bad publicity they get.



Around the Network
SvennoJ on 18 November 2013
Licence said:

To be fair, the WiiU was not exactly perfect. There was the bricking issue (which I think is still not resolved), and widely reported instability with specific games. I don't think Nintendo is excused at all.

If you live in a 3rd world country (I used to live in South Africa), then having a console brick up because of sudden loss of power is an unacceptable risk. And expecting everyone to download Gb's of data on day 1 is also not practical for everyone (in SA again, you could pay close to $100 for 5Gb's of data depending on what plan you have). Why are we allowing corporations to get away with such bad service? Because we simply do. And amazingly, we even DEFEND them as this thread is so clearly showing.

Nintendo is the same. My Wii broke (dead optical drive), wii mote broke, WiiU freezes now and then requiring to pull the plug, WiiU gamepad left analog stick isn't fully working anymore.
I bought a refurbished Wii and refurbished wii mote as replacements, properly tested units, they still work :)



forevercloud3000 on 18 November 2013
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Dangerousjo44 said:
Sony fans have been doing the same thing for years..and now that they no longer have the upper hand they re crying about how hurt they are about xbox fans doing it to them


50% failure rate

vs

0.4%

 

think about that for a second....

0.4% failure rate over 1 day vs 50% over 3 years.


nothing says is suppose to get exponentially bigger over whatever time frame. 0.4 is very low even for Launch I imagine. It could increase to 10% and still not be that bad. Take a look at a few posts back for failure rate reference (they are not all talking 2-3yrs in).



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Licence on 18 November 2013
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Dangerousjo44 said:
Sony fans have been doing the same thing for years..and now that they no longer have the upper hand they re crying about how hurt they are about xbox fans doing it to them


50% failure rate

vs

0.4%

 

think about that for a second....

0.4% failure rate over 1 day vs 50% over 3 years.


nothing says is suppose to get exponentially bigger over whatever time frame. 0.4 is very low even for Launch I imagine. It could increase to 10% and still not be that bad. Take a look at a few posts back for failure rate reference (they are not all talking 2-3yrs in).

Just sayin, you should be comparing apples with apples.



TheSting on 18 November 2013
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:

I just don't think that because MS (and Nintendo) has been guilty of this, that Sony should somehow be off the hook. 

We should not accept sub-par products. We should expect quality. If the multi-billion companies we give our hard-earned cash to do not deliver on this, they need to be held accountable. Stop the apologetics, stop the rationalizations - Sony deserves the bad publicity it is getting.


But that is just it, its not some sub-par product. The system is going through stereotypical yield issues at it's launch. Some are trying to inflate the numbers to give them a worse appearance than they actually are.

Like the article describes, this is no way the second coming of RROD yet. Reading some of these articles tho you would think it was.

This is exactly the type of apologetic behaviour that I think is simply unacceptable. There is no such thing as "stereotypical yield issues at at's launch" unless we come to accept these things as somehow normal and to be expected.

The PS4 is a closed eco-system. There is no excuse for it not to work perfectly under normal conditions. What we are seeing here is Sony simply allowing a sub-quality product to be shipped in order to meet Christmas deadlines. Nobody should be OK with this.

yield issues are an unavoidable occurance when electronics go into production. This means that no matter how careful they could be, error is going to happen.  That is why they are seen as normal. Its mostly about trying to keep the numbers of these issue as low as possible. This situation right here......is pretty damn low. 

Its a lot like how the food industry works. All of our food has small traces of contaminants like rat feces or insects. Its not a question of does it have or doesn't, they all do. Its a question of "how much". There is no reasonable/realistic way from stopping it entirely.

Why this is being expected of Sony, god only knows...


Are they that low though? Do we have comparative numbers with other electronics, like say the IPad 5?

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pop/lm_failureRates.html

according to this site the avg electronic failure rate is 15% in a 2-3yr period

IPad 2 = 9.8%

iPhone 5 = 5%+

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-360-failure-rate-237-ps3-10-wii-27-study/1100-6216691/

PS3 = 10%

Wii = 2.7%

http://consumerist.com/2009/08/17/xbox-360-failure-rate-is-542-percent-game-informer-finds/

Xbox360 = 54%, but now down to about 15% depending on who you talk to.

2-3 year period. What is the failure rate for these after 3 days?

On Amazon.com right now, the two highest voted reviews on the PS4 are both about broken consoles. There are hundreds of reviews about this issue. Yes, we expect a few lemons in the apple bowl, but I think you are being disingeneous if you think the PS4 failure rate is normal and to be expected within existing norms.

and you believe the number of reviews on Amazon because?

How are their user reviews any different then the User Reviews on Metacritic? They are full of people trying to pass an agenda. Some of them are probably true but that not indicative of a mass problem. If you want to take that anecdotal evidence as gospel then the fact that no one has complained to my store yet about failures should mean that they are non existent.


Lol you are questioning why he believes and you bring a small survey from GI into the thread like it's truth. Why do you believe it was 50+? By what you're saying some of those were agenda surveys also, right? You are doing the same thing he is doing. 



jlmurph2 on 18 November 2013
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Licence said:

I just don't think that because MS (and Nintendo) has been guilty of this, that Sony should somehow be off the hook. 

We should not accept sub-par products. We should expect quality. If the multi-billion companies we give our hard-earned cash to do not deliver on this, they need to be held accountable. Stop the apologetics, stop the rationalizations - Sony deserves the bad publicity it is getting.


But that is just it, its not some sub-par product. The system is going through stereotypical yield issues at it's launch. Some are trying to inflate the numbers to give them a worse appearance than they actually are.

Like the article describes, this is no way the second coming of RROD yet. Reading some of these articles tho you would think it was.

This is exactly the type of apologetic behaviour that I think is simply unacceptable. There is no such thing as "stereotypical yield issues at at's launch" unless we come to accept these things as somehow normal and to be expected.

The PS4 is a closed eco-system. There is no excuse for it not to work perfectly under normal conditions. What we are seeing here is Sony simply allowing a sub-quality product to be shipped in order to meet Christmas deadlines. Nobody should be OK with this.

yield issues are an unavoidable occurance when electronics go into production. This means that no matter how careful they could be, error is going to happen.  That is why they are seen as normal. Its mostly about trying to keep the numbers of these issue as low as possible. This situation right here......is pretty damn low. 

Its a lot like how the food industry works. All of our food has small traces of contaminants like rat feces or insects. Its not a question of does it have or doesn't, they all do. Its a question of "how much". There is no reasonable/realistic way from stopping it entirely.

Why this is being expected of Sony, god only knows...


Are they that low though? Do we have comparative numbers with other electronics, like say the IPad 5?

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pop/lm_failureRates.html

according to this site the avg electronic failure rate is 15% in a 2-3yr period

IPad 2 = 9.8%

iPhone 5 = 5%+

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-360-failure-rate-237-ps3-10-wii-27-study/1100-6216691/

PS3 = 10%

Wii = 2.7%

http://consumerist.com/2009/08/17/xbox-360-failure-rate-is-542-percent-game-informer-finds/

Xbox360 = 54%, but now down to about 15% depending on who you talk to.

That's ridiculous. How are you going to take references from a site that specifically says Xbox 360 = 23.7 PS3 = 10 Wii = 2.7 and then use a completely different reference to inflate the rate?? The first article was even posted AFTER the consumerist one.