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Forums - Gaming - Xbox One Resolutiongate: Call of Duty: Ghosts dev Infinity Ward responds

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kirby007 on 05 November 2013

So according to reviewers ps4 version has framerate issues.
so not only the xbox one has to sacrifice resolution for fps

THIS IS GONNA BACKFIRE SON



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fatslob-:O on 06 November 2013
Pemalite said:
Nah, Intel did Tiled based rendering on a heap of it's IGP's that didn't come from PowerVR, stuff like The GMA900/GMA910/GMA915/GMA950/GMA965 and even Larrabee was going to use it.
But that's not saying much, despite some of them being Direct X 7 class hardware, they did have some flexibility in the shaders.

The bonus part about it is you don't need much bandwidth, the Kyro for instance could outperform GPU's with twice the Pixel Pipelines and bandwidth because of the tile based rendering. :P

Actually, only the intel GMA 845, 865, 910, 915, and the 925 supported a pure tiled based rendering method. You are correct about the part where larrabee was going to use it. The intel HD series did not do tiled based rendering there afterwards because intel started to realize the gains in hardware T&L. Tile based rendering has being since then limited to the PowerVR chipsets ever since 2005. I'm not sure if you can call that a "heap". 

The downside is no hardware T&L and that's how it got smashed by the likes of everyone else like 3dfx, nvidia, and ati. So much for STMicroelectronics for trying to prove tim sweeney wrong. So when is hardware T&L gonna be solved for tield based rendering ? 



Pemalite on 06 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:

Actually, only the intel GMA 845, 865, 910, 915, and the 925 supported a pure tiled based rendering method. You are correct about the part where larrabee was going to use it. The intel HD series did not do tiled based rendering there afterwards because intel started to realize the gains in hardware T&L. Tile based rendering has being since then limited to the PowerVR chipsets ever since 2005. I'm not sure if you can call that a "heap". 

The downside is no hardware T&L and that's how it got smashed by the likes of everyone else like 3dfx, nvidia, and ati. So much for STMicroelectronics for trying to prove tim sweeney wrong. So when is hardware T&L gonna be solved for tield based rendering ? 

Don't forget all the variations of the 910. Like the 900, 945 and 950, which use "zone rendering". (Form of tiled based rendering)
The more modern chips use a form of tiled based deffered rendering.
Here: http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/30262503.pdf

And don't forget VideoLogic and NEC built GPU's with their tiled rendering. (Albeit - Tile based deferred rendering.)
However, TnL with Tiled based rendering is actually possible.
The difference between way-back-then when chips were Direct X 7 through to Direct X 9 like with Intels GMA and the Kyro was that GPU's of the era had a fixed function seperate TnL unit in the GPU, which isn't compatible with tiled based renderers.
These days however it's done in the shader hardware, which can be used with tiled based rendering.

Then again, if you take the GMA 965/X3100 for instance, it actually could do TnL outside of software, it's just that Intel implemented it so badly that they actually had to make a profiling system for it so that games that would benefit from the chips TnL would use it, those that would benefit from a software based TnL would do it in software. (And they marketed it for the gamer crowde initially, go figure.)
Then again that IGP had woefull performance in modern games and horrible performance in old games, for instance if you had a 2D overlay over a 3D scene you took a performance impact.

As for 3dfx, they never released a GPU with a TnL unit, the Voodoo 5 6000 samples did have a seperate TnL processor on it though, but that's an un-released card that never saw the light of day in consumer channels before nVidia bought them out.




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fatslob-:O on 06 November 2013
Pemalite said:
fatslob-:O said:

Actually, only the intel GMA 845, 865, 910, 915, and the 925 supported a pure tiled based rendering method. You are correct about the part where larrabee was going to use it. The intel HD series did not do tiled based rendering there afterwards because intel started to realize the gains in hardware T&L. Tile based rendering has being since then limited to the PowerVR chipsets ever since 2005. I'm not sure if you can call that a "heap". 

The downside is no hardware T&L and that's how it got smashed by the likes of everyone else like 3dfx, nvidia, and ati. So much for STMicroelectronics for trying to prove tim sweeney wrong. So when is hardware T&L gonna be solved for tield based rendering ? 

Don't forget all the variations of the 910. Like the 900, 945 and 950, which use "zone rendering". (Form of tiled based rendering)
The more modern chips use a form of tiled based deffered rendering.
Here: http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/30262503.pdf

And don't forget VideoLogic and NEC built GPU's with their tiled rendering. (Albeit - Tile based deferred rendering.)
However, TnL with Tiled based rendering is actually possible.
The difference between way-back-then when chips were Direct X 7 through to Direct X 9 like with Intels GMA and the Kyro was that GPU's of the era had a fixed function seperate TnL unit in the GPU, which isn't compatible with tiled based renderers.
These days however it's done in the shader hardware, which can be used with tiled based rendering.

Then again, if you take the GMA 965/X3100 for instance, it actually could do TnL outside of software, it's just that Intel implemented it so badly that they actually had to make a profiling system for it so that games that would benefit from the chips TnL would use it, those that would benefit from a software based TnL would do it in software. (And they marketed it for the gamer crowde initially, go figure.)
Then again that IGP had woefull performance in modern games and horrible performance in old games, for instance if you had a 2D overlay over a 3D scene you took a performance impact.

As for 3dfx, they never released a GPU with a TnL unit, the Voodoo 5 6000 samples did have a seperate TnL processor on it though, but that's an un-released card that never saw the light of day in consumer channels before nVidia bought them out.

The more modern chips are also more programmable to implement software deferred rendering. 

@Bold How could I because after all they were in the PowerVR series which was pretty iconic at the time.

I realized that hardware T&L was possible but it never got commercialized. It was pretty difficult to achieve since polygons had to be all processed together. This incurred difficulty to implement hardware T&L and integrating it with programmable shaders is even harder. Hence why it's called "deferred rendering" because geometry was to be solved first before going into the issue of visibility in a given scene. 

I realized that the intel GMA 965 had hardware T&L. 

Can you send me a link about some voodoo 5 6000 samples having hardware T&L ? (That would be much appreciated. Thanks )

 



Pemalite on 06 November 2013

Rampage was to have a separate TnL unit.
OEM's were planning to include a Mitsubishi IMPAC-GE TnL unit on-board, in-fact some did like a few of the Wicked 3D Voodoo 2 cards, unfortunately 3dfx didn't finish the microcode for it. (I would love to pick one up for a retro PC!)
As for the Voodoo 5 6000, a few of the prototypes also included the Mitsubishi chip.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite