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Forums - Nintendo - NintenDomination - Sorry VGC, But Your Thread Is In Another Castle

 

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DélioPT on 19 March 2015
Nuvendil said:

 


If install base=3rd party support, where's all the crazy support for the 3DS?  There's really not much outside key Japanese companies.  Resident Evil Revelations 2 even skipped the system despite it the first selling the most on it by far.  You really are completely missing the real issue: they are interested in platforms whose public perception is attractive to the demographics they market to.  3DS doesn't have that, so they aren't interested.  This "Fusion" idea won't fix tthat.  If anything, it would be worse, as it would be entirely unknown and completely opposed to what their target, home console audience wants (Fusion would neuter their home console, don't even try to deny it).  And after Vita's colossal failure as a home console on the go, they won't believe for one second they can make money on Fusion off those who buy it for the handheld side.  Fusion wouldn't help.  Nintendo needs to rebuild their public image to one with wider appeal and more targeted at the core.  Segregating their handheld and home console will let their home console division do that rather than this awkward juggling of two identities you propose.  Because handhelds and home consoles are *not* the same, as Sony learned the hard way.

You misunderstood me.
I didn't say install base equals 3rd party support. I said that it's a better proposition to say you have 57 million potential users than just 7 million, in the case of negotiating games for Wii U, for example. Or, in the case of the japanese market you could add the home console numbers to the 3DS figures.

I know that they aren't all unique users, but those extra users help ease the risks of failure and inthis day and age that's very important.
Imagine Nintendo going to a third party, today, trying to convince them with a 7M userbase that isn't all made up of core gamers and then imagine them goinf with a 57M number to get the same game.
Which solution do you think would help Nintendo the most: a divided userbase or a unified one?

The problem with Vita, if games really were it's main problem, is that it's a portable PS3 and games like Uncharted, Resistance and Killzone weren't as good as the console ones.
Basically, that's all Vita had to offer, but that's not the case with Fusion.

One of the ideas behind Fusion is that Nintendo keeps doidn the same games they do now PLUS games tipically done by 3rd parties.
If they can do that, those who just want a handheld (kids, for example) will still have their usual Pokemons, Marios, etc. But home console owners who don't buy Nintendo's consoles because Nintendo doesn't provide them with the experiences they want would infact get those experiences PLUS all the great Nintendo classics.

Nintendo has spent generations with a plan that was to fill their consoles with their games and then when 3rd parties would see the size of the install base they would get behind them and bring their games... worked didn't it?
The strategy has failed because 3rd parties changed their software output and Nintendo didn't.

By having one NEW indentity - not two, as you assume - they can then change public perception.
Don't you think that if Nintendo managed to have exclusives like (not talking about clones) CoD, Halo, Gears, Gran Turismo, Uncharted, coupled with Mario, Zelda, DK, Smash, MK, Pokemon, that would do a lot for Nintendo?
They can only do that if they stop focusing on two distinctive libraries and just focus on one.



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JEMC on 19 March 2015
RolStoppable said:
JEMC said:

Everything makes sense, which unfortunately isn't that usual in this forum when Nintendo is involved.

The only drawback is that there might be some consumers that will be satisfied by those small "Nintendo Capsules" that they'll found on their smartphones and won't feel compelled to get a proper Nintendo console to get the true experience.

That won't be much of a downside because those people will have spent money on Nintendo products too and have had a positive experience with Nintendo. Even if they remain non-customers of dedicated Nintendo hardware, they'll at least have a positive opinion about Nintendo and know who they are.

Yes and no.

It's true that Nintendo will still profit from them, but the profit will be lower than if they buy their consoles and their console games.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

zorg1000 on 19 March 2015
JEMC said:
RolStoppable said:
JEMC said:

Everything makes sense, which unfortunately isn't that usual in this forum when Nintendo is involved.

The only drawback is that there might be some consumers that will be satisfied by those small "Nintendo Capsules" that they'll found on their smartphones and won't feel compelled to get a proper Nintendo console to get the true experience.

That won't be much of a downside because those people will have spent money on Nintendo products too and have had a positive experience with Nintendo. Even if they remain non-customers of dedicated Nintendo hardware, they'll at least have a positive opinion about Nintendo and know who they are.

Yes and no.

It's true that Nintendo will still profit from them, but the profit will be lower than if they buy their consoles and their console games.

What if they are people who have no interest in spending a couple hundred dollars on Nintendo hardware and another couple hundred dollars for a handful of Nintendo games? Getting some money opposed to no money from these people is definitely better for Nintendo.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

JEMC on 19 March 2015
zorg1000 said:
JEMC said:
RolStoppable said:
JEMC said:

Everything makes sense, which unfortunately isn't that usual in this forum when Nintendo is involved.

The only drawback is that there might be some consumers that will be satisfied by those small "Nintendo Capsules" that they'll found on their smartphones and won't feel compelled to get a proper Nintendo console to get the true experience.

That won't be much of a downside because those people will have spent money on Nintendo products too and have had a positive experience with Nintendo. Even if they remain non-customers of dedicated Nintendo hardware, they'll at least have a positive opinion about Nintendo and know who they are.

Yes and no.

It's true that Nintendo will still profit from them, but the profit will be lower than if they buy their consoles and their console games.

What if they are people who have no interest in spending a couple hundred dollars on Nintendo hardware and another couple hundred dollars for a handful of Nintendo games? Getting some money opposed to no money from these people is definitely better for Nintendo.

What I meant to say is: What if some of the actual console consumers find those mobile games good enough for them so they decide not to buy more console and games?

That's the real thread to Nintendo because while they'll still get money from the mobile games, the profit will be lower than what they make from their hardware and console games.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Conegamer on 19 March 2015

I'll be back in a few days. Might pop back in to check on the site but until then I put Platina in charge.

Take it away, and good luck!



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

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Cloudman on 19 March 2015
Conegamer said:
I'll be back in a few days. Might pop back in to check on the site but until then I put Platina in charge.

Take it away, and good luck!


take care cone~



 

              

Dance my pretties!

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WhiteEaglePL on 19 March 2015

CLUB NINTENDO.

HAS.

GAMES.

:O.



DélioPT on 19 March 2015
Captain_Yuri said:
 

 

Well, if Sony followed Nintendo's strats, they wouldn't have sold 100 million consoles in their first try hence why we need third parties. Third parties go where the money is and they have no issues making games on Nintendo platforms just as long as it costs either the same or less to develop for compared to its competitors. If it costs more, even if its a little more, they won't. Gamers were happy with the ps2, there is no denying that but the reason they were happy with the ps2 was cause it had all the third party games they wanted so they had no reason to look towards the xbox. Gamers will also be happy with the ps5/x2 so they dont need to buy the Nintendo NX if they can play the same games on the handheld.

Those games in those genre's dont have to fail by default but the reality is, they do... And no, there isn't anything like Splatoon but that doesn't matter because it won't sell well regardless of its innovative gameplay. And when they do make clones like ur suggesting with "Nintendo's spin" on it, it will just result the same as every other clone with "their own" spin. Why? Cause it has been proven by countless games like SSB vs PAS or MK vs Mod Nations and etc

Sometimes, I seem to think you arent reading everything... The way they will attract third parties which I will say it for the 3rd or 4th time in this conversation is by making a console that is third party friendly... Have a similar archecture as the ps5/x2 and make sure its performance is close which will make it easy to port and pay some third party developers such as Rockstar to port their games onto the NX. If Nintendo can get all the third parties on their system, then Sony/MS wont have much else to offer the gamers other than a bit better graphics... Nintendo exclusives sell very well, its a proven fact but people aren't willing to trade third party games for that which is also a proven fact. Its not about the exclusives that Sony and MS offers that makes their consoles appealing, its about the third party support that they offer that makes their console appealing and a lack of third party support that Nintendo offers that doesn't make it appealing

Also, I am not sure where you are getting the idea that n64 and GC had great third party support but you really need to stop and do some research... N64 had laughable third party support and GC only had great third party support compared to the n64 and nothing else... Third party did help the xbox because a new console managed to sell almost as much as a brand that had been in the space for generations (Nintendo)... It didn't sell as much as the ps2 because ps2 had all the third party support and the xbox wasn't needed in the eyes of many since it didn't really offer anything and its online was paid

"I wouldn't count development times decreasing because of a unified OS, when developers, this generation, who are used to that tech, have been delaying their games and have spoken more than once on the increasing costs of development in this new generation."

Do you even know what ur talking about with that sentence? An unified OS isn't something that the developers are used to... Specially not Nintendo developers... Nor are they used to the unified APi... The Xbox One and Ps4 and PC all have different OS's with Different APIs where as the Fusion will have the Same OS and Same API. Yes, it takes longer for new games to come out but thats because companies are trying to make more open world games and they are trying to use more power, not because an unified OS doesn't decrease development time. And Nintendo can make games for both platforms, they can make multiple games for both platforms each year with the unified OS and same API alone. It won't be as fast as making games for one platform but it sure as hell won't be as slow as their current structure

There are plenty of good reasons why developers didn't want to develop for the wiiU... x86 is significantly easier to develop for than PowerPC. Not only that but the wiiU super underpowered compared to the ps4/x1. On top of that, most 8th gen games are 50gbs in size... The wiiU's internal hard drive space is 28gbs... And no, the developers cannot rely on the customer to have their own external hard drive because there will be tons of issues with that like refunds and customer dissappointments and etc.

"I mean, gamers are, they just don't see Nintendo machines as the place for those games." Guess why that is... Because the games aren't there... But if Nintendo got the third party on board... Guess what... It will be...

It makes sense if its HW and SW but I doubt its gaming... And no... Gaming =/= SW devision

Again, if you knew what u were talking about, you would realize that it wont just be a minor increase, it would be a significant increase just by Unifying the OS's and APIs... Those aren't little things, they are very big things

And its simple because the media/gamers won't see it that way... They will see the ps4/x1/ps5/x2 getting games from all these developers where as they will see all these developers skipping the Nintendo platform. It will result is less hardware sales because the console devision will be DoA cause it won't even be able to compete against current gen let alone next gen in terms of performance. And most of the wiiU owners are also 3ds owners because there is no reason for non Nintendo fan to buy a wiiU. The wiiU mainly targets Nintendo fans and little else and the 3ds also targets Nintendo fans. And see, you aren't looking through the eyes of what a gamer would think, you are just looking through the eyes of what a Nintendo fan would think. Nintendo fans would love more Nintendo games and games made by Nintendo, no doubt about that but everyone else want those big third party games like Cod, GTA, MGS and etc.

The Hardware sales will decrease because there will no longer be that overlap of people buying the console and handheld. And considering how smartphones are becoming more of a thing everyday, the handhelds will continue to be in decline as well. The NX will continue to target the niche Nintendo only market with ur idea instead of going after the mass market of third party games... And casuals won't buy the system cause they will be playing on their phones instead. So you have a dead console and a declining handheld and even though it has more Nintendo games, without third party games, it will result is less hardware sales due to other consoles + smartphones

And third parties wont take risks proven by their history... And if the NX is as powerful as the wiiU, they won't even bother because the development resources for it would outweigh its gain compared to the ps5/x2 or ps1/x1 where as if the NX is close to being as powerful as the ps5/x2 with it being third party friendly, it doesn't take much effort to port it comparatively... It will be less risks for them because it will be easier to port thus resulting in less development time and resources

And they wouldn't have 60 million because the issues they have with the wiiU will still be present... Infact, it would be even worse cause the power would be similar to the 3ds or the vita at best... If the 3ds has 60 million sales and it still doesn't convinse the western developers to develop games for it, how on earth do you think that a console that is weaker than the 360 (cause it will be using handheld parts) would convinse them?

Now, these chats are getting very boring, very long and I seem to keep on saying the same things over and over again. So the next time you reply... a) Read everything to see if I already covered it or not and b) Do some research before you say anything about the affects of OS's and APIs and etc


"Third parties go where the money is and they have no issues making games on Nintendo platforms just as long as it costs either the same or less to develop for compared to its competitors. If it costs more, even if its a little more, they won't."

You are right, 3rd parties go where the money is. Or in other words, where the market is.
You are just wrong in thinking that they won't develop for Nintendo if the cost is not the same.
GC was a lot easier to develop to than PS2 and so was Wii, yet the big games failed to appear on those consoles? Why did that happen if they were easier to develop to and/or were as powerful as the leading console (GC's case)?
The games didn't come because time showed that consumers on Nintendo consoles wanted other type of games. Blame on Nintendo's marketing strategy or NIntendo's decisions on what of games they made.
That's what happened and that's what developers have been complaining since ever. It's always a risk that most developers aren't willing to take.

Making NX a clone of PS5 or XB4 won't change that.
The market needs to be there, they need to see that despite the size of the userbase they know they can make money on the platform.
If it was just a question of making a 3rd party friendly console than GC would have gotten all the games and Wii would have had the biggest games aswell. Just look at how even Rockstar brings GTA to mobile but never bothered with Wii and even the DS game was a watered down version.
Had Rockstar seen a market for GTA on Wii and they would have been all over it.

BTW, N64 and GC didn't really have a bad support. They just lacked the biggest games.
Actually, N64 had a lot of exclusives.
I counted the games GC had up to certain point in time and then counted Wii U's games and the difference was more than 100 games. Not that bad was it?

I admit that i understand next to nothing in what relates to HW, but what i meant was that despite a unified OS decreasing development times, the fact is, if developers are having more trouble this gen, that decrease will be diluted because of that increase, the teams taking care of QoL and mobile, plus the increase in handheld development times.
Overall, i don't think the benefits will still be that great.

By the way, i never called for NX to be less powerful than PS5 or XB4.
I actually want it to be a powerful one, at least visibly more powerful than PS4 and XB1.

On one hand you say Vita failed because it was basically it offered nothing new and on the other hand you assume that core gamers, when faced with Fusion, they will opt to buy the handheld instead of the home console?
My guess, is that they will opt to buy the home console as it provides the experience they want.

I don't believe Fusion will naturally bring a decrease of HW by taking out the overlaping systems. I actually believe that won't happen because, and this is assuming a bundle that sells both for 400-450, it will, in the end, offer better value with more games per year and the kind of diversity PS and XBox owners will be interested in and are not right now.

The difference that Sony and MS's own "clone" franchises make is that they become the real difference between both consoles and help gamers decide what console to buy.
Nintendo, by having those kind of games can help turn some gamer's heads. But they will need to be exclusive and 3rd parties won't be the ones to make them. And if it's Nintendo they need the manpower to do so. Which they will only have if the focus on one platform.



JEMC on 19 March 2015
RolStoppable said:
JEMC said:

What I meant to say is: What if some of the actual console consumers find those mobile games good enough for them so they decide not to buy more console and games?

That's the real thread to Nintendo because while they'll still get money from the mobile games, the profit will be lower than what they make from their hardware and console games.

Given that the mobile games will be optimized for smartphone play, they will be nothing like console games and as such they can't act as substitutes. And when I say "optimized for smartphone play", it goes beyond controls and includes the type of gameplay and amount of time it demands. What Nintendo has planned are not mini-versions of console games to give people a taste of the "real" thing.

As you already know, never underestimate consumer's stupidity.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Platina on 19 March 2015
Conegamer said:
I'll be back in a few days. Might pop back in to check on the site but until then I put Platina in charge.

Take it away, and good luck!


Awesome! I'm honoured to have this role for now :)

Though it's not like that I will have to do much :P  

Anyways, take care Cone



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