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Soundwave said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Why won't they need third parties? When the NX will come out without third parties, the press will give Nintendo the middle finger and it will end up by being like the wiiU sitution cause a) it will be significantly weaker than the ps5/x2 in an age of going to 4k and b) zero third parties will have endless amounts of articles as to why people shouldn't buy the NX console portion

And just because they can make money from smartphones doesn't mean they don't want to make more money from their console/handheld devisions

And again, they do need it if they want to sell more which all companies do... Do you really want them to get out of the console business that badly?

Also, those sell pretty poorly in the west and I doubt Nintendo wants to more people's interest in the west than they have already


Shareholders wanted Nintendo on smart devices, now that they got their wish, they are overjoyed (see: Nintendo's stock price exploding today to the highest level it's been since 2012 before the Wii U launched). 

They will make money on NX, I'm sure of that. But now they just have the freedom to do it *their way*, they don't have to grovel at third parties' feet, if they want to support Nintendo fine, if they don't, big deal, no difference from the last 12 years. 

I don't there's a ton of pressure on NX anymore either, they can relax and induldge some of their wackier ideas now, it's not the end of the world if the NX say only sells 75 million (handheld + conosole combined assuming a Fusion design) instead of 90-100 million, provided they are making a lot of money from smartphones. 

It's quite possible honestly that very soon a smartphone game may become the most profitable game Nintendo has ever made. Candy Crush makes about a $1 million dollars a day, now factor that in over a 3 year period. 

Thats fine but that has nothing to do with anything

They will make money, but they will make less money than they would if they didn't do this route. And the market is very different than it was 12 years ago cause now we have the internet and websites that tell people whether or not its a good idea to buy a system. When Nintendo goes out on stage and shows zero third parties, the only ones that will be excited are Nintendo fans or people that want to play Nintendo games. The rest of the people will simply ignore it cause the games that they want are on the other two platforms. GTA sold more than 45 million... Cod sells more than 10 million per year.. Those are huge games that have huge system sellers and every journalist out there that isn't a Nintendo site will be telling people not to buy it and people will just remember the sitution it was on the wiiU and they will ignore the system entirely for the console part

They won't even sell 75 million... They will be lucky to do 60 million combined. The reason why the wiiU/3ds will even sell 75 million combined is cause a lot of people buy both which the NX won't have. And when the NX will be filled with bad press due to it being weaker in the age of 4k and it having zero third parties countless articles having developers/publishers saying that they wont support the NX, the console portion will be DoA and it will be the wiiU 2.0 without the lame name. They can't just relax and let things be because if they distroy their console branding, in the future, even less people will buy their consoles even if its good.

And it is possible but we won't know till it happens which is probably a bit away from now... We don't even know when their first smartphone game will come out



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

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RealGamingExpert said:
Captain_Yuri said:
 

Well the issue with that is the same... Why buy both (console and handheld) when you can buy one? No one is going to buy the console if the game is the same as the handheld because it will look like shit when its upresed to 4k or even 1080p... 4k TVs are becoming more and more popular and when you play a handheld game on ur 40-50 inch 4k TV with the handheld res being less than 720p.. It will look ugly as hell so there won't be any reason to buy the console. Instead, people will just save their money and get a ps5/x2 which will upres a shit ton better than this will and it will have games that won't be avaliable on the NX. A game doesn't become HD just by plugging it into the TV, you need to redo the textures and a lot of things to make sure its actually HD and if they did that, then they are just losing money cause they are giving u a free HD copy that who knows how many people won't use and proper HD development again, costs money.

And the thing is, it won't have a higher userbase compared to wiiU+3ds when the people realize how weak it is... It won't sell magically just because it has more Nintendo games, it needs third party games in order to sell. Heck, the reason why the 3ds is where its at right now is due to both Nintendo games and Third party games like Yokai Watch and Monster Hunter. And not to mention that you will lose the overlap of people buying the console version and the handheld version as well as both hardware. I am sure a lot of people that own the wiiU also owns the 3ds. At most, it will end up being at combined 60 million which may be a respectable number but then you realize that its worse than sales of wiiU and 3ds and they will be exiting the console market due to it

And it may be speculation, but its annoying speculation that seems to get thrown around more often than it should so I would like to know why this is such a "good idea"

What if the next handheld is strong enough to support HD games? Wouldn't that work then? I obviously don't know much about this, but I can't imagine it being that hard or expensive to slightly improve graphics on a game. Even smartphones have impressive displays nowadays, so I don't see why a powerful gaming device wouldn't have one.


That would be pretty sad if their next handheld can't run HD games. 

Their iPhone/Android games will pretty much have to be HD by default so the "better real deal" $40 portable games are going to run in SD resolution by comparison?

Yeah ... don't see that flying for too long. 

The funny/sorta sad thing is the first Nintendo game any of us will likely play in native resolution that's above 1080p in resolution will likely be on our iPhones/iPads/Galaxy phones. 



RealGamingExpert said:

What if the next handheld is strong enough to support HD games? Wouldn't that work then? I obviously don't know much about this, but I can't imagine it being that hard or expensive to slightly improve graphics on a game. Even smartphones have impressive displays nowadays, so I don't see why a powerful gaming device wouldn't have one.

Well the thing is, there is only so many things you can do with a $200 price tag and Nintendo handhelds always have been known to be quite weak even vs the current competition. And even if they manage 720p, upscaling from 720p to 4k will still look terrible and I highly doubt they will be able to manage 1080p with a $200 budget. And yes, smartphones have impressive displays but most just upscale anyway because the display is so small that u won't really notice the difference vs a 40-50 inch tv where you will.

When you have an actual console quality game running on mobile, it will just explode



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Soundwave said:


That would be pretty sad if their next handheld can't run HD games. 

Their iPhone/Android games will pretty much have to be HD by default so the "better real deal" $40 portable games are going to run in SD resolution by comparison?

Yeah ... don't see that flying for too long. 

The funny/sorta sad thing is the first Nintendo game any of us will likely play in native resolution that's above 1080p in resolution will likely be on our iPhones/iPads/Galaxy phones. 

Yeah exactly. But it's nintendo, so you never know...

They aren't really known for putting out strong hardware right now.



If you're interested in Nintendo content and understand german, maybe you want to take a look at my youtube channel! :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/RealGamingExpert

Captain_Yuri said:

Well the thing is, there is only so many things you can do with a $200 price tag and Nintendo handhelds always have been known to be quite weak even vs the current competition. And even if they manage 720p, upscaling from 720p to 4k will still look terrible and I highly doubt they will be able to manage 1080p with a $200 budget. And yes, smartphones have impressive displays but most just upscale anyway because the display is so small that u won't really notice the difference vs a 40-50 inch tv where you will.

When you have an actual console quality game running on mobile, it will just explode

But why is 4k so important right now? PS4 / XOne don't deliver such games either, do they?
1080p should be fine. If they make their new handheld ~250$ and the homeconsole will be as strong (which would be weak for a homeconsole), then maybe we'll see a cheaper console than handheld. That might be a good way to avoid the direct competition with PS4 / XOne. They will still make a lot of money through the games then!



If you're interested in Nintendo content and understand german, maybe you want to take a look at my youtube channel! :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/RealGamingExpert

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RealGamingExpert said:
Captain_Yuri said:
 

Well the thing is, there is only so many things you can do with a $200 price tag and Nintendo handhelds always have been known to be quite weak even vs the current competition. And even if they manage 720p, upscaling from 720p to 4k will still look terrible and I highly doubt they will be able to manage 1080p with a $200 budget. And yes, smartphones have impressive displays but most just upscale anyway because the display is so small that u won't really notice the difference vs a 40-50 inch tv where you will.

When you have an actual console quality game running on mobile, it will just explode

But why is 4k so important right now? PS4 / XOne don't deliver such games either, do they?
1080p should be fine. If they make their new handheld ~250$ and the homeconsole will be as strong (which would be weak for a homeconsole), then maybe we'll see a cheaper console than handheld. That might be a good way to avoid the direct competition with PS4 / XOne. They will still make a lot of money through the games then!

Making a handheld at 1080p, like you said, would be quite expensive for the consumer to purchase... People probably rather just play Nintendo mobile games than purchasing a fusion handheld for that much.... $250 is quite a lot and if that is just to accomodate for the fusion home console, I don't really think it is worth it. Better to have two consoles that excell in what they are good at, exclusively. Home console = more power, etc. while handheld is portable



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Captain_Yuri said:
Soundwave said:


Shareholders wanted Nintendo on smart devices, now that they got their wish, they are overjoyed (see: Nintendo's stock price exploding today to the highest level it's been since 2012 before the Wii U launched). 

They will make money on NX, I'm sure of that. But now they just have the freedom to do it *their way*, they don't have to grovel at third parties' feet, if they want to support Nintendo fine, if they don't, big deal, no difference from the last 12 years. 

I don't there's a ton of pressure on NX anymore either, they can relax and induldge some of their wackier ideas now, it's not the end of the world if the NX say only sells 75 million (handheld + conosole combined assuming a Fusion design) instead of 90-100 million, provided they are making a lot of money from smartphones. 

It's quite possible honestly that very soon a smartphone game may become the most profitable game Nintendo has ever made. Candy Crush makes about a $1 million dollars a day, now factor that in over a 3 year period. 

Thats fine but that has nothing to do with anything

They will make money, but they will make less money than they would if they didn't do this route. And the market is very different than it was 12 years ago cause now we have the internet and websites that tell people whether or not its a good idea to buy a system. When Nintendo goes out on stage and shows zero third parties, the only ones that will be excited are Nintendo fans or people that want to play Nintendo games. The rest of the people will simply ignore it cause the games that they want are on the other two platforms. GTA sold more than 45 million... Cod sells more than 10 million per year.. Those are huge games that have huge system sellers and every journalist out there that isn't a Nintendo site will be telling people not to buy it and people will just remember the sitution it was on the wiiU and they will ignore the system entirely for the console part

They won't even sell 75 million... They will be lucky to do 60 million combined. The reason why the wiiU/3ds will even sell 75 million combined is cause a lot of people buy both which the NX won't have. And when the NX will be filled with bad press due to it being weaker in the age of 4k and it having zero third parties countless articles having developers/publishers saying that they wont support the NX, the console portion will be DoA and it will be the wiiU 2.0 without the lame name. They can't just relax and let things be because if they distroy their console branding, in the future, even less people will buy their consoles even if its good.

And it is possible but we won't know till it happens which is probably a bit away from now... We don't even know when their first smartphone game will come out


Nintendo doesn't like to compete. Not in the way you're describing. Iwata even said full on they're not good at competing (lol, what CEO says that?). 

They like to do things their own way and turn a profit doing so. 

Honestly even in the 90s if you really study Nintendo, most of the competetive "push" (we gotta compete with Sony/Sega!) really came from the US side led by Minoru Arakawa and Howard Lincoln. 

The Japanese side of Nintendo really had no concept of competetion until the Playstation came around, they didn't really have to compete with Sega in Japan because the Mega Drive never was a big thing there. Pretty much all of that era of NOA is retired now (Lincoln, Arakawa, Peter Main, etc. etc.), and Iwata and the Japanese old timers took over control of Nintendo full stop after Yamauchi stepped back. Their mentality is very different from Nintendo of the 90s. 

You can hold your breath for some wonder Nintendo console where they money hat things like Grand Theft Auto and vow to compete tooth and nail with Microsoft and Sony to the bitter end, but I would probably advise you to not pass out waiting for that. It ain't coming and after today there's even less reason. And Nintendo's never given two sh*ts about the press, don't see that changing any time either, which is no big loss since a big chunk of the gaming press is dumb as a rock to begin with. 



Platina said:

Making a handheld at 1080p, like you said, would be quite expensive for the consumer to purchase... People probably rather just play Nintendo mobile games than purchasing a fusion handheld for that much.... $250 is quite a lot and if that is just to accomodate for the fusion home console, I don't really think it is worth it. Better to have two consoles that excell in what they are good at, exclusively. Home console = more power, etc. while handheld is portable

But homeconsoles haven't proven to be good for Nintendo. Sure, they still make money out of them, but there has to be a better way, no?

I think NX will be just the right thing. Of course it's too early to judge, but there needs to be a change.



If you're interested in Nintendo content and understand german, maybe you want to take a look at my youtube channel! :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/RealGamingExpert

RealGamingExpert said:
Captain_Yuri said:
 

Well the thing is, there is only so many things you can do with a $200 price tag and Nintendo handhelds always have been known to be quite weak even vs the current competition. And even if they manage 720p, upscaling from 720p to 4k will still look terrible and I highly doubt they will be able to manage 1080p with a $200 budget. And yes, smartphones have impressive displays but most just upscale anyway because the display is so small that u won't really notice the difference vs a 40-50 inch tv where you will.

When you have an actual console quality game running on mobile, it will just explode

But why is 4k so important right now? PS4 / XOne don't deliver such games either, do they?
1080p should be fine. If they make their new handheld ~250$ and the homeconsole will be as strong (which would be weak for a homeconsole), then maybe we'll see a cheaper console than handheld. That might be a good way to avoid the direct competition with PS4 / XOne. They will still make a lot of money through the games then!

Well its not about right now, its about when the NX comes out... It will get announced at e3 2016 most likely and if they follow the 3ds launch, it will launch in spring 2017 or the wiiU launch, it will launch in holiday 2016. And when the handheld comes out, people will be like yay, its stronger than the vita but then when the console comes out, people will facepalm cause its essentially weaker than the wiiU or about the same performance.

And how do you expect 1080p from mobile parts when the ps4/x1 even struggle to do 1080p at $400? The issue with mobile parts is that they are limited by power and space which = it will be either less powerful than the wiiU or just as powerful than the wiiU and it wont even be close to the x1 or ps4....



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Soundwave said:


Nintendo doesn't like to compete. Not in the way you're describing. Iwata even said full on they're not good at competing (lol, what CEO says that?). 

They like to do things their own way and turn a profit doing so. 

Honestly even in the 90s if you really study Nintendo, most of the competetive "push" (we gotta compete with Sony/Sega!) really came from the US side led by Minoru Arakawa and Howard Lincoln. 

The Japanese side of Nintendo really had no concept of competetion until the Playstation came around, they didn't really have to compete with Sega in Japan because the Mega Drive never was a big thing there. Pretty much all of that era of NOA is retired now (Lincoln, Arakawa, Peter Main, etc. etc.), and Iwata and the Japanese old timers took over control of Nintendo full stop after Yamauchi stepped back. Their mentality is very different from Nintendo of the 90s. 

You can hold your breath for some wonder Nintendo console where they money hat things like Grand Theft Auto and vow to compete tooth and nail with Microsoft and Sony to the bitter end, but I would probably advise you to not pass out waiting for that. It ain't coming and after today there's even less reason. And Nintendo's never given two sh*ts about the press, don't see that changing any time either, which is no big loss since a big chunk of the gaming press is dumb as a rock to begin with. 

Yes, they don't and look where it got them... A "failed" console and a handheld that won't even sell half as much as the DS

^

Heres the thing... If they don't try to compete, they will exit the console market period which = a huge loss in revenue and a source of income which I doubt they are willing to give up. They gotten away without competing during the wii/DS days cause those sold like free sex but now, the casuals are gone and the people that buy gaming consoles want to buy a console that has great third party games and if Nintendo doesn't make a third party friendly console and convinse the third parties to develop on their platform, then people will simply not buy their console. Its as simple as that because third party games are popular whether we like it or not. Its hardly even doing much to compete, all they are doing is making a console that is third party friendly and paying some big ones like Rockstar to port GTA on their system. Not make it exclusive, just port... And any short comings of graphics and timed exclusives will be nullified by Nintendo's own IPs. It really isn't that hard

And if it ain't coming, then Nintendo will simply exit the console market all together which I doubt they will or they want to so they should make it third party friendly. You are right about one thing, times have changed but they changed because the influence of third parties have gotten so strong and Nintendo needs to adapt to exactly that. And if Nintendo doesn't give a shit about the press, then they better start or else sell significantly less consoles and handhelds each generation



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850