By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable [...] ESRAM Provides High Bandwidth At Low Power Read

walsufnir on 08 October 2013
Ashadian said:
walsufnir said:
Ashadian said:
z101 said:
Ashadian said:
Lol! Lol! I wonder why PC GPU's use GDDR5 Ram??? Maybe MS should send Nvidia and AMD an email telling them to use Esram instead. Lmfao! MS shill talks up his own product while dismissing the competition without a shred of evidence to back it up with!

But eDRAM is best when the programmer know it is there and can fully utilize it. Use of eDRAM in PCs difficult. Even when a developer want to use it they must make code for PCs with or without eDRAM. But eDRAM is perfect for consoles with their standardized hardware.

Modern graphics card use eDRAM to: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2265428/intel-haswell-chips-will-have-onpackage-dram-for-cpu-and-gpu

Even a Sony Lead system architect of the PS4 admits that eDRAM gives a performance boost: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20130401/274313/?P=2

It isn't perfect for consoles as theirs only 32MB of it. It then becomes a puzzle to solve and a bottleneck. GDDR5 Ram is the better overall solution!

 

PS2 had embedded ram, 360 has embedded ram, gamecube, wii, wiiu, even psp according to wikipedia. Seems the puzzle has been solved by devs long ago.


Why would you want or need a tiny amount of embedded ram when you can use one unified pool of GDDR5 ram? This is exactly what Mark Cerny is saying. The extra die that MS lost by adding the 32mb ESRam Sony have benefitted from having a far more powerful GPU and a much easier platform to develop for.

 

The 360 had unified ram *and* embedded ram and I really think those engineers know a lot better on how to build performant systems than you. Sony had luck with their approach that the prices turned out well for them. If you have two individual teams with a certain goal in mind and let them design a system it is no surprise that they have different designs. For MS this was the best solution, for Sony it was another one.

And if anything is easier to program for depends on way more than just hardware.



Around the Network
Ashadian on 09 October 2013
walsufnir said:
Ashadian said:
walsufnir said:
Ashadian said:
z101 said:
Ashadian said:
Lol! Lol! I wonder why PC GPU's use GDDR5 Ram??? Maybe MS should send Nvidia and AMD an email telling them to use Esram instead. Lmfao! MS shill talks up his own product while dismissing the competition without a shred of evidence to back it up with!

But eDRAM is best when the programmer know it is there and can fully utilize it. Use of eDRAM in PCs difficult. Even when a developer want to use it they must make code for PCs with or without eDRAM. But eDRAM is perfect for consoles with their standardized hardware.

Modern graphics card use eDRAM to: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2265428/intel-haswell-chips-will-have-onpackage-dram-for-cpu-and-gpu

Even a Sony Lead system architect of the PS4 admits that eDRAM gives a performance boost: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20130401/274313/?P=2

It isn't perfect for consoles as theirs only 32MB of it. It then becomes a puzzle to solve and a bottleneck. GDDR5 Ram is the better overall solution!

 

PS2 had embedded ram, 360 has embedded ram, gamecube, wii, wiiu, even psp according to wikipedia. Seems the puzzle has been solved by devs long ago.


Why would you want or need a tiny amount of embedded ram when you can use one unified pool of GDDR5 ram? This is exactly what Mark Cerny is saying. The extra die that MS lost by adding the 32mb ESRam Sony have benefitted from having a far more powerful GPU and a much easier platform to develop for.

 

The 360 had unified ram *and* embedded ram and I really think those engineers know a lot better on how to build performant systems than you. Sony had luck with their approach that the prices turned out well for them. If you have two individual teams with a certain goal in mind and let them design a system it is no surprise that they have different designs. For MS this was the best solution, for Sony it was another one.

And if anything is easier to program for depends on way more than just hardware.

Your right those engineers sure did know better thats why RROD was so prevelant?

Is that why the majority of Devs are stating PS4 is easier to develop for and more powerful?

If you need proof use google or Bing if your so inclined!



walsufnir on 09 October 2013
Ashadian said:
walsufnir said:
Ashadian said:
walsufnir said:
Ashadian said:
z101 said:
Ashadian said:
Lol! Lol! I wonder why PC GPU's use GDDR5 Ram??? Maybe MS should send Nvidia and AMD an email telling them to use Esram instead. Lmfao! MS shill talks up his own product while dismissing the competition without a shred of evidence to back it up with!

But eDRAM is best when the programmer know it is there and can fully utilize it. Use of eDRAM in PCs difficult. Even when a developer want to use it they must make code for PCs with or without eDRAM. But eDRAM is perfect for consoles with their standardized hardware.

Modern graphics card use eDRAM to: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2265428/intel-haswell-chips-will-have-onpackage-dram-for-cpu-and-gpu

Even a Sony Lead system architect of the PS4 admits that eDRAM gives a performance boost: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20130401/274313/?P=2

It isn't perfect for consoles as theirs only 32MB of it. It then becomes a puzzle to solve and a bottleneck. GDDR5 Ram is the better overall solution!

 

PS2 had embedded ram, 360 has embedded ram, gamecube, wii, wiiu, even psp according to wikipedia. Seems the puzzle has been solved by devs long ago.


Why would you want or need a tiny amount of embedded ram when you can use one unified pool of GDDR5 ram? This is exactly what Mark Cerny is saying. The extra die that MS lost by adding the 32mb ESRam Sony have benefitted from having a far more powerful GPU and a much easier platform to develop for.

 

The 360 had unified ram *and* embedded ram and I really think those engineers know a lot better on how to build performant systems than you. Sony had luck with their approach that the prices turned out well for them. If you have two individual teams with a certain goal in mind and let them design a system it is no surprise that they have different designs. For MS this was the best solution, for Sony it was another one.

And if anything is easier to program for depends on way more than just hardware.

Your right those engineers sure did know better thats why RROD was so prevelant?

Is that why the majority of Devs are stating PS4 is easier to develop for and more powerful?

If you need proof use google or Bing if your so inclined!


I know the problems but my points are still valid. Also it's mainly ps4-devs saying it' easier, often especially in contrast to ps3. And why do you say Bing? Ah, now I know. It's your horizon that's limiting you.



fatslob-:O on 09 October 2013

Gee I wonder what's so difficult about GDDR5 considering the fact that developers didn't have alot of issue with the xbox 360's GDDR3 so what's the big deal exactly or excuse I should say ? (sarcasm)