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Forums - Politics - Should Isreal break ties with U.S over who we get along with?

fatslob-:O said:
spurgeonryan said:
Well if israel is going to make such a fuss maybe we should!

We start by not giving them anymore foreign aid. :P 

It seems that alot of us aren't too happy about the relationship with isreal. 


The only people are who are ultra-conservative Christians who are convinced that we "have to protect the Holy Land from them Arabs".



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DevilRising said:
fatslob-:O said:
spurgeonryan said:
Well if israel is going to make such a fuss maybe we should!

We start by not giving them anymore foreign aid. :P 

It seems that alot of us aren't too happy about the relationship with isreal. 


The only people are who are ultra-conservative Christians who are convinced that we "have to protect the Holy Land from them Arabs".

Eh.... it might of dropped, but i doubt to the like maybe 5-10% ultraconservative Christians represent.

 



Kasz216 said:
DevilRising said:
fatslob-:O said:
spurgeonryan said:
Well if israel is going to make such a fuss maybe we should!

We start by not giving them anymore foreign aid. :P 

It seems that alot of us aren't too happy about the relationship with isreal. 


The only people are who are ultra-conservative Christians who are convinced that we "have to protect the Holy Land from them Arabs".

Eh.... it might of dropped, but i doubt to the like maybe 5-10% ultraconservative Christians represent.

 

What are you extrapolating from this? 71% of Americans have a favourable opinion of Israel, therefore are in favour of the disproportionate military aid? Really, there's absolutely no connection here. Everything I've seen on the topic suggests that DevilRising's  statement is mostly correct.



           

ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
DevilRising said:

 

 

What are you extrapolating from this? 71% of Americans have a favourable opinion of Israel, therefore are in favour of the disproportionate military aid? Really, there's absolutely no connection here. Everything I've seen on the topic suggests that DevilRising's  statement is mostly correct.

If they were against the military aid Israel's approval ratings would be much lower.  You generally don't approve of someone if you think they're stealing billions of dollars from you.

By "everything you've seen" i'm guessing you mean people complaining on the internet, on sites like this.  Which tend to appeal to certain sets and tend to lead to likeminded people crowding together.

 

"Thinking about the military aid the United States provides Israel for military purposes, do you think U.S. military aid to Israel should be increased, kept the same, or decreased?" If decreased: "Do you think the United States should reduce the amount of military aid provided to Israel, or stop providing military aid to Israel altogether?" Combined responses. Version B (N=506, MoE ± 4.5).

 
    Increased Kept the
same
Reduced Stopped
altogether
Unsure
    % % % % %
 

11/18-20/11

14

50

12

21

4

 

8/2-3/06

12

51

13

18

6

http://www.pollingreport.com/israel.htm



Though for the record, I would totally let someone else be Israel's deep pockets.

If I were the US, i'd be trying to get closer to Turkey.

Not as rock solid as Israel would be, but Turkey actually has the power to influence the middle east... and likely in the most positive ways of the main powers trying to gain regional influence.

If they can remove the MB extremist influence... it's really the best ally at advancing the region in a more modern pro west friendly way. Plus with Greece destroying it's own economy Europe and the US have the perfect leverage to tell them to shut the hell up.



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spurgeonryan said:

Besides military reasons, why are we even allies? They have no use for us anymore.

Its because of US aid that Israel is still functioning militarily against daily Islamist attacks.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Kasz216 said:
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
DevilRising said:
 

 

 

What are you extrapolating from this? 71% of Americans have a favourable opinion of Israel, therefore are in favour of the disproportionate military aid? Really, there's absolutely no connection here. Everything I've seen on the topic suggests that DevilRising's  statement is mostly correct.

If they were against the military aid Israel's approval ratings would be much lower.  You generally don't approve of someone if you think they're stealing billions of dollars from you.

By "everything you've seen" i'm guessing you mean people complaining on the internet, on sites like this.  Which tend to appeal to certain sets and tend to lead to likeminded people crowding together.

 

"Thinking about the military aid the United States provides Israel for military purposes, do you think U.S. military aid to Israel should be increased, kept the same, or decreased?" If decreased: "Do you think the United States should reduce the amount of military aid provided to Israel, or stop providing military aid to Israel altogether?" Combined responses. Version B (N=506, MoE ± 4.5).

 
    Increased Kept the
same
Reduced Stopped
altogether
Unsure
    % % % % %
 

11/18-20/11

14

50

12

21

4

 

8/2-3/06

12

51

13

18

6

http://www.pollingreport.com/israel.htm

I'm not sure whom they were asking there, and that's of course an important consideration. There really should've been a parallel question: "Are you aware of how much of the US foreign aid Israel receives, as an absolute and a relative figure?"

I'm not American and I don't really know any Americans, so you're right that all I've seen was from the internet. What I've seen is that most people who are in favour of this use the bible and the holocaust. As an American (if you are indeed American), would you say that this is not the case from the conversations you've had? 



           

Kasz216 said:
Though for the record, I would totally let someone else be Israel's deep pockets.

If I were the US, i'd be trying to get closer to Turkey.

Not as rock solid as Israel would be, but Turkey actually has the power to influence the middle east... and likely in the most positive ways of the main powers trying to gain regional influence.

If they can remove the MB extremist influence... it's really the best ally at advancing the region in a more modern pro west friendly way. Plus with Greece destroying it's own economy Europe and the US have the perfect leverage to tell them to shut the hell up.


I cannot think of a single candidate who has run that has opposed aid to Israel. Even the libratarian minded senator form my state Rand Paul has stopped saying cut off aid after few years of being Washington.

I do not consider us allies, we (the United States) bend the near to Israel.



ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
DevilRising said:
 

 

 

http://www.pollingreport.com/israel.htm

I'm not sure whom they were asking there, and that's of course an important consideration. There really should've been a parallel question: "Are you aware of how much of the US foreign aid Israel receives, as an absolute and a relative figure?"

I'm not American and I don't really know any Americans, so you're right that all I've seen was from the internet. What I've seen is that most people who are in favour of this use the bible and the holocaust. As an American (if you are indeed American), would you say that this is not the case from the conversations you've had? 

Well... to put it bluntly... no.

US support for Israel is extremely high... for a number of reasons. 

The most common reason's i've seen cited generally involve the fact that Hamas constantly attacks Israel. (Though not everyone specifically identifies them as Hamas.) 

Or just the belief that Israel is a "good" country.  Being the only real democracy in the middle east, having Western Ideals.  All that.

It's a hard concept to put into words, I guess the best way to explain it would be....

To most Americans,  Israel is pretty much a Europeon Country. (and not because of FIFA classifications)  While the Middle East is well the Middle East. 

 

Generally, anti-israel sentiment comes from Libretaran, Extreme liberal groups and Muslims.    

Non Muslim Arabs... it's touch and go.  They are wary of Israel, but actually have tend to support dictators.  They were Pro Mubarek, and are pro current Egyptian army forces,   Pro Assad... etc.   Most likely over fear of what a muslim led society would mean for them.

 


Extreme Liberals and espiecally Libretarians are overreprestened on the internet and in videogames... so, that's why you get what you get.

 

Even a lot of libretarians though want to cut all foreign aid, except Israel. 

 

It's not likely to be a campaign breaker... but it's not a position that will gain you votes.



Augen said:


I cannot think of a single candidate who has run that has opposed aid to Israel. Even the libratarian minded senator form my state Rand Paul has stopped saying cut off aid after few years of being Washington.

I do not consider us allies, we (the United States) bend the near to Israel.


Yeah, it seems kind of stupid.  While I am sympathetic to Israel's whole situation, the whole thing does seem like a pointless money sink.

 

Though I did think of another reason why we probably throw so much money at them. 

The US might get a lot of info on Islamist terrorist cells from Mossad.

When you consider just how much we spend on intellegence, it might actually be a good deal.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/07/news/economy/nsa-surveillance-cost/index.html

 

Though seeing as I find our general drone wars and intellegence strikes into soverign countries without their permission illegal and often self defeating, it doesn't make the point for me.

Other people it might though.