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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Shin'en: If you can't make great looking games on Wii U, it's not the hardware's fault

Zero999 on 22 September 2013
ninjablade said:
dahuman said:

What I can tell you so far is that the E3/PAX Prime demo looked really good(online videos can't show it off due to the higher FPS, I was under the impression that textures weren't that great but I knew I was wrong when I saw the game running in real time) and performance was right there when I played and feels even more amazing than the first game. I did see some graphical bugs since my eyes are really trained but apparently they are known issues that will be fixed after I made some inquries. If they can get that kind of performance already in an early demo build in 720p, then 1080p isn't entirely impossible if they optimize the code more, though I'm leaning towards 720p final as well, I'd be surprised otherwise.


yea jumping from 720p to 1080 only requires 2.5x the rendering power, should be breeze.

actually it's 2.25x the NUMBER OF PIXELS. we don't know if it would require 2.25x more processing for that.



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Zero999 on 22 September 2013
the_dengle said:
I'm not sure why 1080@60fps is needed to confirm the Wii U's power when so few PS3 / 360 games were able to maintain 720@30fps. Actual 720 at 60 fps is a huge step above 7th gen.

yeah, and that's while upping the graphics at the same time, not just running ps360 level graphics at 720p 60fps. but 1080p 60fps is already confirmed for some games anyway.



Zero999 on 22 September 2013
the_dengle said:
JoeTheBro said:
the_dengle said:

Thanks Google.

That means they ported a DX 11 game to Wii U, not that the Wii U supports a DX 11 equivalent API.

I just Googled it, I neither know nor care what DX 11 even means. Though I have some recollection of Square-Enix saying it's the reason FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 3 aren't coming to Wii U.

nope, square never stated that kh3 wasnt coming to wii u. they never said anything about dx11 being the reason for it not being confirmed yet. they said nothing actually.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
forethought14 said:

fatslob-:O said:

You can do it now. I don't think he's going to reply

You do realize that doing gpgpu is awkward on a VLIW architecture, right ? (What's more is that it's awkward for alot of developers.)

And what's more is that gameplay physics is best done on a cpu that depends on floating point power so does this mean that the WII U won't have alot of rigid body physics ?

BOLDED PART Dude, I'm not on here 24/7. I may be logged in, but that doesn't mean I'm browsing the forums. Be patient.

Developers have just not have needed to use it much on VLIW considering how it wasn't used extensively on the 360, and it's the opposite need for PS3, where the CPU there is used to aid the RSX (and that had a different architectrue). GPGPU has been used in the 360, though it wasn't needed too much for those tasks, since the CPU had enough float point performance for what they needed. With Wii U, it's likely much easier to use because the architecture is newer. If it's documented well enough ("well" being used here is relative, since I've heard of terrible documentation  before launch) then it shouldn't be a problem.

And yes, generally there are some things that are best done on the CPU, which I do agree that Nintendo should have at least implimented some more modern SIMD instructions, but don't count out GPGPU. It's not its savior, but it will certainly help, just as PS4/X1 will need to rely on it as well. 

It's just that PS4/X1 will make it easier to do gpgpu compared the WII U becaause it has an even more modernized shaders.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
DevilRising said:
FrancisNobleman said:

I promise not to report you both if you never disrespect Okami again like that.

you're free to go... for now.

 

You both are really kind of missing the point. First off......Riddick? Really? Secondly, Okami has a gorgeous art stlye, and I love the game. But I'm sorry, Shadow of the Colossus I think is pretty much hands down the most graphically impressive PS2 game for my money. Beyond that, the point was that there were amazing looking games on the weakest hardware of that gen. And furthermore that Wii U will also undoubtedly have some of the best looking games of this new gen, regardless of how much more powerful the PS4 is.

So...................................yup.

Yeah you got a problem that riddick is more technically impressive than either okami or shadow of the colossus.

And Rogue Squadron III is more technically impressive than Riddick. ;)

Bad textures and lower resolution is more impressive ?



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MikeRox on 22 September 2013
cheesecake said:
btw, i've played their games on the Wii/U, and they look incredible.


Iridion II on the GBA sold me on Shin'en and their ability to yeild incredible visuals with limited resources. Visual and audible treat!



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

There's a lot about the hardware we don't know, but Shin'en did say, again in the OP, that being having a GPGPU lifts most of the limits on previous consoles. There's no question that devs who want to be able to spend no time tailoring a game to the hardware are going to find it difficult as its architecture is not in line with either its peers, as was the case for systems like the PS2, Wii, and PS3.

As for floating point heavy work, the GPGPU could play a part in assisting with these kind of operations. That's its purpose after all, to take on some of the tasks traditionally assigned to the CPU.

You cannot use gpgpu for everything. There will be a time where a processor is more efficient at handling tasks such as sequential workloads. Plus I think a cpu's SIMD engine is important as it is the key to giving games more interactivity. Such as good ingame destruction physics which I have wished for a long time. 

It probably won't be better at everything, but the more modern GPU, more than twice as much RAM vs PS3/360, and more than three times as much as eDRAM as 360 should comfortably make it more powerful overall.

I wouldn't say that if I were you but I do agree and think that it is more powerful than the ps360.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
g911turbo said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Err you realize that bayonetta 1 was at 720p at 60fps on the xbox 360.

And it made smaller and less detailed environments, and simpler lighting, shading, and visual effects compared to what we've seen of Bayonetta 2.

Meh.

The technical difference is quite distinct. Bayonetta 1 is one of my favourite games of the 7th gen, but Wii U's superior RAM and GPU really show when you compare it to Bayo 2, even in the latter's unfinished state.

I don't know about the superior GPU but it does have more ram although slower ram. 

Fatslob = ninjablade.  LMAO.  Guy probably has multiple accounts.

Why don't you go check that out with the mods to confirm that we have the same IP address.



ninjablade on 22 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:
g911turbo said:
ninjablade said:

then people should stop bringing up X until it does look better then current gen, techincally there is no question GTA5 is doing way more just based of the reveal trailers.

Playing GTA5 now on Xbox 360.  Tons of blur, pop in, slow down etc.  Fantastic game still, but not even close to X.  IF that X footage holds up, even as is, no contest.

Same with The Last of Us. Great graphics.  But no doubt starting to show a little "long in the tooth".  Pop in, muddied motion, stutter, slow down.  A++ game though.  Graphics are good enough, but the current systems are starting to show some age.

Don't have a Wii U yet, but from what I've played of my brothers, and the footage shown of games like Mario Kart, X, etc. - no contest.  The Wii U is clearly benefiting from next generation improvements.  Two main ones right off the bat: A.  More RAM.  B.  Advanced instruction sets in the GPU.

 

Odd. I've been playing on PS3 and the only major blur/pop in occurs when going super fast. GTAV looks well above X. We don't know X's IQ stuff though, so if it ends up being 1080P 60fps, then it can technically beat GTA while looking worse.

GTAV looks so much better then X its not even funny.  people keep brining up shinen a smalldevelopersthats making exclusives games for wiiu at the moment, of couse they want to make the wiiu look better then it really is, while developers like vigil and black forest games, say its slightly better or on par with current gen hardware, this along with the gpu thread at neogaf and digitail foundry faceoff, it clearly shows that wiiu is very close to current  geninterms of performance, people can keep on brining up X but nobody has played it and there isnt even a real gameplay videos to see how it runs, but the trailers clearly shows that lighting looks static and flat, pop up every where and low rez textures, not to mention the models are not even that detailed, and the prerendered foilage, if bayo2,mk8 and x were on 360/ps3 i'm pretty sure nobody would call them the best looking games.



ninjablade on 22 September 2013
Zero999 said:
ninjablade said:
JoeTheBro said:

At this point it's still something very possible on ps360. That's what I'm saying.

The fact that GTA5 looks better in every department then X, from models, lighting, textures, animation and AA, you would think people would stop bringing up X but they still do, i swear if bayo2, mario kart 8 and X were were on 360/ps3 nobody would call them the best looking games on those consoles.

wrong on every statement but keep trying.

whats your proof that i'm wrong, for a game to be called the best looking game on xbox 360 or ps3, they need to look amazing all around, AA, models, high detail, solid frame rate, good lighting, thats how it always been when it was 360 vs ps3, now with games on wiiu its about scope or something , something, when you post direct feed pics of bayo 2 or mario kart 8, you can see the flaws every where.