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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - [RUMOR]Xbox One Could Possibly Feature a Powerful Discrete GPU Core Stacked Inside the APU

Somini on 03 September 2013
walsufnir said:
richardhutnik said:
walsufnir said:
cannonballZ said:
How much extra power does this supposedly give X1?


roughly 1 cloud.

 

Final Fantasy VII remake to the XBOX ONE confirmed!

 

Wow, this would be... I think the internet would just explode, if it was exclusive, too. Instant deaths, spontanous self-combustions all over the world.

lol i think you are very correct Walsufnir, this would be the biggest internet explosion i've ever seen lol. Bigger than FFXIII going multi, bigger than GTAIV exclusive episodes for the 360, bigger than FFVII coming to the PS1 instead of the N64. I can't name anything else that was as big as this couls be :D

If it were to happen, i'de pre-order the Xbone day 1!!



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iamdeath on 03 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
iamdeath said:
selnor1983 said:
iamdeath said:
selnor1983 said:
Putin said:
Maybe because some people can't let it go. And try to find any way to get some hope for XBO be much powerfull then it already is.


Am I missing something here. Its common knowledge that not one single gaming media knows 100% how the Xbox One works. Noone. Microsoft arent telling everything yet. By law they cant. They have a NDA with AMD. So until September 29th passes, we wont know for sure. 

Lately, alot of media are reporting that Microsoft have not designed a traditional CPU and GPU design. And that Microsoft ave designed something unusual for consoles and even for PC's. 

Not one single media knows how the ps4 works either, that's par for the course.

 

Where is this a lot of media? No way are they able to keep this secret this close to launch, heck everything aboput ps4 and x1 were known befoire the reveal. This is nothing more then wishfull thinking.

 

Even AMD has said the ps4 is more powerfull...............................

 

The PS4  has an unusual non standard CPU and GPU too, what is your point?

Im not saying that the rumour will come true. Im saying its defiantely possible.

No gaming media is saying how PS4 may have this and that. Its all about Xbox One this past 3 weeks.

In fact the more people are looking at the way the Xbox One is designed the more people are questioning the positioning of the 2 consoles. Xbox One has 7 extra co processors than PS4 for a start. on the GPU die.

It makes sense as to why Microsoft were keeping quiet and saying its not all about TFLOPS of the GPU core. They may have paid 3 billion with AMD ( I believe Sony was 1.8 million ) for something more. Who knows.

Either way  the games will tell us. So far niether appears to have an edge in visuals so far. It can be argued the Infamous 2 is the best. Same way you can argue Quantum Brea, Forza 5 or Ryse. 

Guess we will know when September 29 NDA ends between AMD and Microsoft. 


Yes we will know, there is nothing to this but wishfull thinmking. I this day and age it would be impossible to keep this secret, some people have alreayd had their hands on the hardware.

 

Also, your argument works both ways, if the x1 had sectret sauce where is the graphical diff in games?>

 

With all the bad press and high price no way MS would have not bragged about this when it was found PS4 was more powerfull.

If I am not mistaken, since we are talking about this subject I would believe that MS hasn't kept this a secret.

The graphical difference would be that the X1 games look just as good as the more powerful PS4.  Would that not be proof.  People have mentioned how the PS4 will just blow away the X1 but we are still waiting to see that happen.

I am not sure if you know how NDAs work.  There is no bragging if you cannot speak about a tech behind that piece of paper.  That argument really does not hold any weight. You are best using the Dead Rising and Killer Instinct FPS which is a more solid argument.

Also I remember when the specs stuff was being pimped around and I forget the MS exec name which stated something about on paper something may appear weaker but would be it surprising if found that the hardware is more powerful (paraphrase).  I thought this was a wild claim by MS but you never know.  Just throwing out the GPU Tflops might not tell the whole story between these 2 consoles.

?? No it is a technical fact the ps4 has more power, it is as simple as that. THese are launch titles.....it is not rocket science.



ironmanDX on 03 September 2013
iamdeath said:
Putin said:
Maybe because some people can't let it go. And try to find any way to get some hope for XBO be much powerfull then it already is.


This.


These are interesting xbox one rumours... Worth speculation on a site about, you guessed it, video game consoles. Seems as though people here are trying to throw it out the window without much thought. The Op says to take it with a grain of salt as it is just a rumour.

 

Of course, not commenting is always am option.



iamdeath on 03 September 2013
selnor1983 said:
iamdeath said:
selnor1983 said:
iamdeath said:
selnor1983 said:
Putin said:
Maybe because some people can't let it go. And try to find any way to get some hope for XBO be much powerfull then it already is.


Am I missing something here. Its common knowledge that not one single gaming media knows 100% how the Xbox One works. Noone. Microsoft arent telling everything yet. By law they cant. They have a NDA with AMD. So until September 29th passes, we wont know for sure. 

Lately, alot of media are reporting that Microsoft have not designed a traditional CPU and GPU design. And that Microsoft ave designed something unusual for consoles and even for PC's. 

Not one single media knows how the ps4 works either, that's par for the course.

 

Where is this a lot of media? No way are they able to keep this secret this close to launch, heck everything aboput ps4 and x1 were known befoire the reveal. This is nothing more then wishfull thinking.

 

Even AMD has said the ps4 is more powerfull...............................

 

The PS4  has an unusual non standard CPU and GPU too, what is your point?

Im not saying that the rumour will come true. Im saying its defiantely possible.

No gaming media is saying how PS4 may have this and that. Its all about Xbox One this past 3 weeks.

In fact the more people are looking at the way the Xbox One is designed the more people are questioning the positioning of the 2 consoles. Xbox One has 7 extra co processors than PS4 for a start. on the GPU die.

It makes sense as to why Microsoft were keeping quiet and saying its not all about TFLOPS of the GPU core. They may have paid 3 billion with AMD ( I believe Sony was 1.8 million ) for something more. Who knows.

Either way  the games will tell us. So far niether appears to have an edge in visuals so far. It can be argued the Infamous 2 is the best. Same way you can argue Quantum Brea, Forza 5 or Ryse. 

Guess we will know when September 29 NDA ends between AMD and Microsoft. 


Yes we will know, there is nothing to this but wishfull thinmking. I this day and age it would be impossible to keep this secret, some people have alreayd had their hands on the hardware.

 

Also, your argument works both ways, if the x1 had sectret sauce where is the graphical diff in games?>

 

With all the bad press and high price no way MS would have not bragged about this when it was found PS4 was more powerfull.

Noone has found PS4 more powerful. Noone. That was based on the tec released numbers of the Core GPU TFLOPS and CORE CPU TFLOPS. We already know this week that the Xbox One can offload alot more stuff away from the GPU than PS4 can. Allowing the GPU to do other work. It actually reminds me of the Cell last generation. It was rubbish at General Purpose gaming. But all the little SPU's allowed devs to offload stuff. 

Something Microsofts Xbox One has been designed to do. The APU is different enough on Xbox One for some developers saying it will take further resources to get the most out of its architecture. The 15 co processors on the GPU wont all be used on launch day. Developers are able to use how they want.

As for launch games I agree. But then wo knows it could be disabled in all devkits until 29th September. Made enabled with a software update after that. Is it worth having the launch games not use it then the rest use it to throw Sony off? I would. 

If its true Sony wont know what to do. 

Anyways its all speculation at this point. And even without the 2nd GPU, the 15 co processors we recently found out about change things greatly.

?? No it is a technical fat the ps4 has more power, it is as simple as that. THese are launch titles.....it is not rocket science.

 

People have found it more powerfull, because it is, google is your friend. No amount oif denial or spin is going to change the facts.



Putin on 03 September 2013
selnor1983 said:

Microsoft had 4 first party studios then. They 22 at the start of this generation. Thats why PS2 won.

Also its not a surprise comeback. It would turn the Xbox One into the best beast for the next 10 years. 

Sony obviously played the short game out of the gate. Thats a given. They seem to have fallen flat at the moment. No Disc based AAA games of note have been shown. Microsoft on the other hand have done brilliant on game launch year. 

This generation will be interesting now Microsoft have 22 First party studios. Cant wait.

Where did you get this number, 22? Can you name all those studious?

Sony didn't showed thier tech at all. Unlike MS, they only send Cerny and some scatches, and he just talk. I didn't see motherboard pics(unlike XBO) or schematics.It seems that Sony have much more to hide than MS. Think about it ;)



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Machiavellian on 03 September 2013
iamdeath said:

Amd has said on numerous occasions....I am not talking about huma.

 

With all the bad press and high price no way MS would have not bragged about this when it was found PS4 was more powerfull. They would keep this a secret and possibly huty sales because? Not like Sony can change their hardware,

Can you provide this link of AMD saying the PS4 is more powerful.  I have kept up pretty much on all the rumors statements from all companies and I do not remember seeing anything besides the one presentation where the guy stated that X1 does not have HUMA.  So if AMD has made such statements i am sure you have the links because I did a search and found nothing but the one I mentioned.

Let me give you a hint about preorder, they are easily gain and dropped.  MS do not have to spill all of their cards in one lump and if anything that is exactly what they have done.  In the last 5 weeks or better, MS has release tidbits of positive news constantly.  This definitely if true would be the granddaddy of them all right at a perfect time where final hardware from both companies are done.

 

Do not get me wrong, I find it very hard to believe this rumor but its been around for a long time and it keeps getting more traction as the D Day approaches.  It would be a coup of un-presented proportions.  I highly doubt MS has such knack but now I am interested to see what happens on Sept 29th.



Adinnieken on 03 September 2013
iamdeath said:
selnor1983 said:
Putin said:
Maybe because some people can't let it go. And try to find any way to get some hope for XBO be much powerfull then it already is.


Am I missing something here. Its common knowledge that not one single gaming media knows 100% how the Xbox One works. Noone. Microsoft arent telling everything yet. By law they cant. They have a NDA with AMD. So until September 29th passes, we wont know for sure. 

Lately, alot of media are reporting that Microsoft have not designed a traditional CPU and GPU design. And that Microsoft ave designed something unusual for consoles and even for PC's. 

Not one single media knows how the ps4 works either, that's par for the course.

 

Where is this a lot of media? No way are they able to keep this secret this close to launch, heck everything aboput ps4 and x1 were known befoire the reveal. This is nothing more then wishfull thinking.

 

Even AMD has said the ps4 is more powerfull...............................

 

The PS4  has an unusual non standard CPU and GPU too, what is your point?

I'm pretty sure AMD has said the PS4 has a more powerful APU.  The APU is a layer in the Xbox One's SoC. 

APU = CPU + GPU + NorthBridge + SouthBridge + I/O. 
SoC = varies.  In this case, on the Xbox One, it is the APU (as above)+eSRAM+a bunch of other stuff both mentioned an unmentioined, like the 15 discrete processors for audio and video.

The GPU layer in the Xbox One's SoC is believed to be a discrete GPU, meaning separate from the one included in the APU.  Since it doesn't have its own outputs, the two would likely work together, which makes dividing up the eSRAM into four parts a little more understandable.  One of the oddball design choices was splitting up the 32MB of eSRAM into four blocks of 8MB.  If there is just one GPU, why not have a single block?  The answers from Microsoft haven't been all that helpful in making sense of it.  If there is a discrete GPU then you could have a situation where they're sharing that memory space passing handles back and forth, allowing blocks to be read and written to.

I still don't have my head wrapped around the concept of a discrete GPU that functions in conjunction with a GPU.  When the rumor first appeared, my thoughts were that the two GPUs would be rendering on multiple screens, but the Xbox One only includes a single output.  It is also possible that both could work in conjunection with the other.  The GPU and the dGPU working together to create a single rendering.  That just feels like overkill to me though. 

If this is true, I will more interested in how this would work than how it was done.




richardhutnik on 03 September 2013

In related Cloud Strife news...
http://pixeledcourier.com/2013/07/16/cloud-strife-sues-microsoft/

It is possible as part of the out of the court settlement, Microsoft decides to moneyhat the making of the Final Fantasy VII remake, and pay Cloud work to talk about the infinite power of Microsoft's cloud.



iamdeath on 03 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
iamdeath said:

Amd has said on numerous occasions....I am not talking about huma.

 

With all the bad press and high price no way MS would have not bragged about this when it was found PS4 was more powerfull. They would keep this a secret and possibly huty sales because? Not like Sony can change their hardware,

Can you provide this link of AMD saying the PS4 is more powerful.  I have kept up pretty much on all the rumors statements from all companies and I do not remember seeing anything besides the one presentation where the guy stated that X1 does not have HUMA.  So if AMD has made such statements i am sure you have the links because I did a search and found nothing but the one I mentioned.

Let me give you a hint about preorder, they are easily gain and dropped.  MS do not have to spill all of their cards in one lump and if anything that is exactly what they have done.  In the last 5 weeks or better, MS has release tidbits of positive news constantly.  This definitely if true would be the granddaddy of them all right at a perfect time where final hardware from both companies are done.

 

Do not get me wrong, I find it very hard to believe this rumor but its been around for a long time and it keeps getting more traction as the D Day approaches.  It would be a coup of un-presented proportions.  I highly doubt MS has such knack but now I am interested to see what happens on Sept 29th.

Thee is no reason for MS to keep it secret, sony cannot change their hardware...this is a moronic rumour. MS would only be hurting pre-orders esepcially with all the talk of the ps4 being more powerfull. What would ms have to gain by keeping it secret (Not possible today anyway)? Nothing.



ethomaz on 03 September 2013

Duplicate.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=167475

And my comment if anybody is interested: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5632689