Well the thing about a Christian god is that if you disprove one of the attributes of god, you disprove all of god.

Take for example the monkey above. If you said These are the reasons I can't find the monkey, if you can show one of those things as an impossiblility you disprove the monkey.

Proof that god exists: Me

But then it just turns into illogical rationalizations for why that one thing can be disproved, and it goes on and on in an endless loop of one side disproving things and the other side claiming why that doesn't ACTUALLY disprove the monkey. That is, until I can't rationalize anymore, in which case the monkey is beyond reason and logic.

Nothing is beyond reason and logic

The monkey is....

You do know I'm on your side, right? lol I'm trying to point out that you can rationalize anything if you believe it's infallibly true.

Thiers a verse when someone ask God how to prove him to others God said. "Tell them to Look outside, look at all, the animals, mountains, rivers, look at life and you will know that I made it"Now you must be thinking, "thats not proof". So to prove God we need to look at what God does everyday. Miracles, exorcisms, bleeding statues, healing are some but lets look at something else(Since I already posted miracles early on the post). Lets look why some muslims turn christians 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BeMc-E0wSuA    

 http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CExvHJxJnY&feature=user   

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0FFF-O1MlF4             

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JlnO9cfgCNM&feature=user                                                                        

Gulshan Esther - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulshan_Esther

Now you must be saying" Wtf christians turn muslims too". Yes but most muslims have visions, aparations and get healed by Jesus Christ. While christians that turn muslims just want to try something else in life(Since no one has had a vision of mohhamed, got healed by mohhamed, or heard mohhamed's voice)

 Now lets look at animals. How do they survive from predators, for food, and new enviroments!!!! well you must be saying "Its called evolution stupid! they addapt!!" Evolution does occur wolf to dogs. But what if some creatures needed everything they have to be alive otherwise they would be dead. Eh watch this video so you can understand what I mean.   http://youtube.com/watch?v=RofGpGwPfX8

I can't just point and say thiers God!! And I can't just say 1+1=2 so thats proff thiers a God. Most atheist(people who didn't believe in the super natural) I know turned christians because they had a religiuos experience. Go visit sacred places, sacred churche's, where miracles occur all the time.  Go to church, pray, have group gatherings                                                                   

Or

Go sleep in a haunted house, buy a demonic doll, go play guija in the cementary ask a priest to put a demon on you.

 Acturally all of these arevery good scriptures and are used by many to support the hell fire doctrince. If you look at each one it's clearer that it is an incorrect understanding.

First is Matthew 13. Matthew 13 starts off with the an illustration known as the "wheat" and the "weeds". Many believe that this illustration refers to people. However looking at it, it refers to the congregation. Jesus came with teachings to start the congregation. These teachings are wheat. However, Jesus foretold that an evil one will plant weeds within his congregation. This is known as the act of apostasy. Ironically, hellfire is one of those weeds, along with other traditions, like the trinity. If you look back thru history you will notice that when Rome made Christianity the state religion there was alot of compromises made to appease other groups. In essence the pagan teachings of the other groups were sowed in amoung with Jesus' teachings. Thats how hellfire, trinity, and even christmas became doctrine. Hellfire from the babylonians, trinity from the egyptians, and christmas from the sun worshipers. At the end of Chapter 13, Jesus says that the weeds will be seperated and destroyed by fire. And those gnashing their teeth arent people being burned, but those who believe in those false teachings, or your modern day religous zealot.   

Second is Matthew 9: 47-49. I mentioned this earlier. Hell as a word that is translated form the hebrew word for grave, Sheol. It wasnt until recent history that hell took on a new meaning of eternal torment in fire. When jesus uses the word hell it carries no implication of torment, just the implication of death and destruction. Fire is the same way, it implies destruction not torment.

Third is Matthew 25:46. Jesus promises eternal punishment for the unrighteous. I mentioned earlier what the punishment for sin is, and that is death, not torment with fire. So this scripture is saying the unrighteous will have eternal death and the righteous eternal life.

Now, it is important to note that God is FORGIVING and Jesus sacraficed his life that way we can be repurchased from sin and death. An unrighteous person is defined not as a sinner, but as one who does not accept God's forgiveness. So, just becasue you make mistakes doesnt mean you will reap eternal death. 

Some people are being very ignorant of the term "Christian".

Christian....

Catholic
Protestant
Baptist
Lutheran

The four I can name off my head, I know there are more.

Someone said lack of tolerance on Christian behalf - I call utter BS. I'm a Lutheran, and ANYone, regardless of faith may attend a church service under its roof. Lutherans are also allowed to attend OTHER church services under other religious roofs as long as the core values stay the same, which can be as basic as family values and loving each other as a form of spiritual building.

And nobody in a Lutheran church tells people they will go to hell - it is explicitly informed to any attendee that it is God's decision, not a priest, not the Pope's, and not anyone else's authority to do so.



Calling Christians a specific and narrow-minded 'fact' that just doesn't apply is like calling Islamic followers all evil - which I HOPE we all know is not a fact.

Phendrana: "You can't claim everybody has pre-existing knowledge of God. Christian theology says they do because Christian theology is Christian. A Christian who follows the Christian religion would believe this to be 100% true because of what they feel from their personal faith. They have a feeling of connectedness to their God that nonbelievers don't have. But this feeling isn't wired into us from birth. It arises from faith itself."

I'm not saying that everyone does have the knowledge, I'm saying that that is the Christian stance. Christianity CLAIMS that all already have this knowledge. I was stating their position in order to clear up the idea that Christianity requires blind assumption for salvation.

Crash Man: "You are asking us to accepting Christian Doctorine as proof that we should accept christian doctrine."

See above.

senseinobaka: "Close. Very Close. However there is more to revelation 20 than just verse 15. Just go back one more verse to Rev. 20:14. Interestingly, we see other things being thrown into the lake of fire. Hades was thrown in, and death. You read that right. DEATH was thrown into the lake of fire. Does this mean that god plans on tormenting death forever? Ofcourse not, thats absurd. Verse 14 goes on to explain that the lake of fire means the second death. Second death means destruction or no longer existing at all. In other words, God intends on destroying satan, death, hades or grave, and satans followers. What you failed to do was show me where God mentions eternal suffering. That idea is nowhere to be found."

Of course, Death could not be tortured forever. But then again, if the lake of fire is total annihilation, then Death could not be destroyed either, since death is merely a physical process in your context. I would postulate that Death as it is refered to here is meaning, therefore, something else. Now, in Revelations 20:10, it says "And the devil... was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. " In Matthew 25:41, concerning the unsaved it states "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angles." Also, on being called the second death: this does not necessarily imply nonexistence. The first death, physical death, does no mean the non-existence of the body, but the seperation of the spirit and the body. So the second death does not mean the nonexistence of anything, as did neither the first. The second death could even be thought of as (you may be aware of this idea) the spirit's seperation from God himself.

I feel like half of the people posting on this topic don't really know a dime from a penny about what they are talking about, and the other half actually do.

How does the phrase go? Something like, "In order to truly know something you have to truly experience it?" Otherwise, we have a lot of people here claiming to be a wise man, where actual wise men do not know everything like these silly finger pointings.