Phendrana said:
senseinobaka said:
Grey Acumen said:
Phendrana said:
I never understood why a loving and infinitely forgiving God would throw you into a pit of eternal suffering for something as simple as not believing in him during such a short time as your life (when compared to all of eternity). This also brings other things into question as well. Not all religious people are morally good, and not all non-religious people are morally bad. So would the religious person be allowed into Heaven over the non-religious person just for having faith? If life were a test of the goodness of a person, why would faith in the existence of God decide if you get into Heaven? Faith has nothing to do with how moral a person is. Or perhaps life is a test of devotion. In that case, wouldn't God make his existence a little more obvious? |
Look, i can forgive you for saying i don't exist, and I can invite you to my house, but if you keep insisting it doesn't exist, despite the numerous people that say "yeah, he's just head down that road, you can't miss him", how the hell are you ever going to get there? |
I have studied the bible for many, many years. Please show me where the bible teaches the doctrine of hellfire. Thats something I have never seen. And, be careful. You are insinuateing that God is actually not a loving and benvolent being. But is instead vindictive and hate filled. If you go on teaching that... it could be slander. So you will need very concrete evidence. Here's what I know from the bible. 1)The first thing wen need to ask is "Who Sins?" Well all people make mistakes and sin. No one is perfect. So everyone is in this "sin boat" 2)So then, what is the punishment for sin? Romans 6:23 states specifically that the cost of sin is death. So if one dies...then he is absolved of his sins, he paid his debt so to say. 3)Then we ask, what does this death punishment entail? Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that those who die are conscious of nothing at all. It fails to say the dead are sent to the devil to be tortured for their sins. 4)And finally, how long does this punishment last? Due to Jesus ransom, those who die have the gift of being brought back life. This ressurection according to bible prophecy happens after Armegeddon. So death is a temporary punihment for sins and it includes no torture... just being dead. Atleast, that is what the bible teaches. Another thing about the hellfire idea. Satan rebelled against God for his own selfish ideals. Why would he willingly take employment or an assignment from God to torture sinners? Last time I checked, rebels don't decide to do as told. |
Ok, this interpretation sits a little better with me than the eternal pain and suffering stuff. I'm not familiar with the Bible enough to really argue with your interpretation, but I looked up a few passages I think go against it. A few of the ones I found are: Matthew 13:49-13:50 It will be this way at the end of the age. Angels will come and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mark 9:47-9:49 If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out! It is better to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where their worm never die and the fire is never quenched. Everyone will be salted with fire. Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. If I'm mistaking, please let me know. Like I said, I'm not 100% on the exact interpretations from the Bible. I'm only going by my teachings from when I was younger and the limited parts of the Bible I have read. Oh, and I don't think the devil rules over Hell. I was always under the impression he will be sent there to be punished along with everyone else. |
Acturally all of these arevery good scriptures and are used by many to support the hell fire doctrince. If you look at each one it's clearer that it is an incorrect understanding.
First is Matthew 13. Matthew 13 starts off with the an illustration known as the "wheat" and the "weeds". Many believe that this illustration refers to people. However looking at it, it refers to the congregation. Jesus came with teachings to start the congregation. These teachings are wheat. However, Jesus foretold that an evil one will plant weeds within his congregation. This is known as the act of apostasy. Ironically, hellfire is one of those weeds, along with other traditions, like the trinity. If you look back thru history you will notice that when Rome made Christianity the state religion there was alot of compromises made to appease other groups. In essence the pagan teachings of the other groups were sowed in amoung with Jesus' teachings. Thats how hellfire, trinity, and even christmas became doctrine. Hellfire from the babylonians, trinity from the egyptians, and christmas from the sun worshipers. At the end of Chapter 13, Jesus says that the weeds will be seperated and destroyed by fire. And those gnashing their teeth arent people being burned, but those who believe in those false teachings, or your modern day religous zealot.
Second is Matthew 9: 47-49. I mentioned this earlier. Hell as a word that is translated form the hebrew word for grave, Sheol. It wasnt until recent history that hell took on a new meaning of eternal torment in fire. When jesus uses the word hell it carries no implication of torment, just the implication of death and destruction. Fire is the same way, it implies destruction not torment.
Third is Matthew 25:46. Jesus promises eternal punishment for the unrighteous. I mentioned earlier what the punishment for sin is, and that is death, not torment with fire. So this scripture is saying the unrighteous will have eternal death and the righteous eternal life.
Now, it is important to note that God is FORGIVING and Jesus sacraficed his life that way we can be repurchased from sin and death. An unrighteous person is defined not as a sinner, but as one who does not accept God's forgiveness. So, just becasue you make mistakes doesnt mean you will reap eternal death.
