So, Eomund, you haven't really answered my question on Health care inaction and it's morality as compared to violence. Deuteronomy 21 looks down pretty severely on inaction resulting in the death of ones neighbour.

Vaio will you not understand simple words coming from me? Those that do wrong can be forgiven, but they are less of a person if they do not seek forgiveness and restitution. You can speak the Words of God and change people's lives even when you are in sin, but you, the speaker, are committing a sin and you should know better. The Bible states that whoever knows what is right and does not do it is beaten with many lashes, but whoever does not know what is right and does wrong, will be beaten with few lashes.

The priests are vile for committing the grave sin they have. It would not be beyond comprehension that those priests could have some tie to the homosexual community. Perhaps not all of them, but it would not surprise me to find that out, nay I actually expect that. Not to say that all homosexuals are pedophiles but those who are already debased will seek further debauchery. Look to "San Fan-sicko" to see what I mean. Listen to Michael Savage and listen well for a month and you will truly see what I mean. [link]www.michaelsavage.com[/link]

To the bottom line: those who sin can tarnish the name of God as they have apparently done in this case. I do not agree, nor does the Catholic Church, with the actions of those priests, yet they did it. Does that mean that Christianity believes in molesting young boys? FAR FROM IT! GET THOSE PERVERTS OUT OF THE PULPIT! TAKE THEM TO THE SLAMMER WHERE THEY CAN DO NO MORE HARM TO THE KIDS! Enough of ranting now. I am done for the night.

Health Care can be treated on your own between you and a doctor. Work something out. That is why the Doctors' all have to swear to the Hippocratic Oath. My inaction to pay for your treatment of the flu which leads to your death could be my fault, but the fault lies with the person for not seeking medical care. They can and will get it if they simply ask. No emergency room can turn people away.

Alright, well Eomund all I can say is, you really need to learn that the world is not as black and white as you make it out to be, try and use reason once in awhile since faith isn't all that one needs to find truth(Saint. Thomas Aquinas may have mentioned that a few times during his life) and try and keep an open mind.

I'm out for the night, I don't know if you have kids yet, but if so, try not to sell your daughter into slavery if you get bored(Exodus 21:7)

You set your self up so nicely by saying that anyone that speaks the words of God but doesn´t follow the word of God is not a true follower and thus the only ones left to be called worhy followers are those that do nothing wrong.

I am not a gayfriendly person, I am one of those that doesn´t really care about gay people as long as they don´t hit on me but to say that all homosexuals are pedophiles is so wrong in so many ways that it think you have to pray for forgivnes tonight before it´s to late and if there is any selfrespect within this site you should not only be banned for your muslim comments but also be banned an extra 6 months for the homo comment and then sentenced to 10 000 hail marys a day for the rest of your life.

I fully understand what you are saying and to some extent I agree with you that one that speaks and breaks gods laws shouldn´t equal as god is bad but It´s really sickening how Christians all the time and as soon it gets hot uses that excuse instead of taking responsobility in their fellow Chritian brothers actions and say that we are all humans we can do wrong but NO Christians jump high when compared to something bad and scream that´s not representative of GOD. Isn´t the followers a representation of what they follow? shouldn´t the followers take resposobility in what their teachings produce even if it´s not the fault of the belief it self?

Long way from the original thread post about the existence of God.

I noticed that all of those arguements are from events that originally took place billions of years to at best, millions of years ago. The chance of that happening so long ago in the past and not near the present, when I am alive, should be so small, that it must prove that God is now dead.

Seems to be about the same level of logic at least.

Where I have a bigger problem with God, is how inefficient and poorly designed, He made things.

Such as, billions of places for life, and yet only this 1 out of that many. (if true, that is.)

And as can be seen by this thread, a worst ratio of failures to successes (ie, going to hell versus going to heaven) than Microsoft with its RROD. Going from the beginning of humanity, and considering examples like only what 8 survived the flood, and I would presume that the wicked rest once they drown all when to hell. At best, maybe 5% of His created humans go to heaven? From a perfect maker that knew in advance that He would have a 95%+ failure rate?

And while you can say humanity failed the age of commandments, like the 'thou shall not kill', He rather egged on some of killing, such as 'Not suffer a witch to live.' Or when He was handing out some land to the Israelis, and there happened to be someone already there, well, okay, this time it's okay.

I'm already inconsistant enough. I don't really want a God to make me even more so.

The person who taught me about Jesus being a socialist was Jesus.

Quite entertaining....

I am interested in valid non-believers' reasonings, not that I am claiming one way or the other.

I know most science buffs will choke on the day by day creation in Genesis of the Bible, and preach how science is against it: but the thing someone once told me is that in science you always have a reference of measurement to compare results in order to check for errors...

...which led him to explain this, that no form of measurement is given for "a day in the life of God", and that 6 days for God is a few dozen billions of years, and that the past few million-billion have been the 7th day of rest.

Which is intriguing, because plenty of people search for an excuse to discredit an idea without ever trying to figure out if you could even explain that idea - understanding both sides that could prove both true.


Therefore, I believe in God but also believe in Science, DNA, evolution, other worlds of intelligent life, dinosaurs, creationism and the big-bang. Munchies.

 The problem lies where ideals mix and become law for no other reason but religion.  In certain religions, it is immoral to marry more than one person.  Why does it matter how many people you attach yourself to?  Why must I be forced to carry around money with some false trust in a God I don't believe in?  These are just a few examples, but when the ideals of a religious group are forced upon those that are not of that religion or not religious, then you have a problem.  If religion was a personal and private matter, then none of this would be an issue.  However, religion in it's deepest root (Christian, Muslim, etc.) promotes preaching, conversion, and exclusion.

 I'm going back up the line to this statement real quick.

You are hearing the plots of the media and politicians trying to worm their way into more control.  9/11 was Bush's "in" to be able to innact unconstitutional "laws" to monitor the people of America.  Sure, there are those that now shun Muslims because of this, but it was fear broadcast by a few people that promoted it.