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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Microsoft and Sony killing Inovation" says industry vet Mitch Lasky

ChronotriggerJM said:
I have a massive question to the OP, why is Innovation the new Fun? I'm personally much more concerned with playing good games then playing "different" ones. Innovation hasn't gone anywhere with the PS3 and the 360, it's not "magically lost", developers are still trying to keep there series's fresh, and personally adding things like Online Play, 4-8 player story co-op, Six-axis controls for flying segments, and games like Everyday shooter keep the market plenty fresh while leaving core gameplay at it's finest.

Yes there titles are expensive to produce, but I've heard games on PSN really aren't >_>; They both offer a service that lets you put out low budget, creative hook titles for a fraction of the cost of the "epic monstrosities" I disagree with the article.

 I don't remember stating it being the new fun, i don't even remember saying i fully agree with the article, so i can not answer your question. not trying to be cheeky by the way



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DMeisterJ said:
@ selnor

But they were the first to introduce an HD Drive in their system, and consequently (most likely) tipped the war in their favor. Now if that matters or not, can be argued, but what can't be argued is the 9 million Blu-Ray players that were out there because of this. So their innovation has essentially changed what happened in the war. I'd call that innovation.

 But wouldn't that be innovation on thier film/media front rather than actual games, theres nothing new blue ray has done for gaming experience to my knowledge except for bigger space, i don't own a ps3 yet, but thats what it seems.



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Well Sony has given us some quite fun games off the PSN, and even had Pain which was quite different. Also Echochrome will re-invent the puzzle genre.

I dont see where the lack of innovation is.



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what he is talking about is if a software company has an idea for a unique, never-before-done game then it is much harder for them to justify taking a $30mil risk than a $10mil risk

upping the development costs leads to less games and especially less games with new features or completely new ideas...it leads to lots of sequels and games that are similiar to successful titles with maybe some small bits of innovation in there to set it apart...



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HappySqurriel said:

Personally, I think the important question is "What do you REALLY gain from these massive budget games?"

I think most people will agree that the answer is (primarily) improved graphics. I personally wonder whether this push towards better graphics, and more realistic graphics, misses the point of what a game is and why we play it. Conisder this image from Super Smash Bros. Brawl:

Certainly, if this game was produced for the XBox 360/PS3 the graphics could be enhanced quite a bit; you could increase the resolution of all of the textures, many of the items that are on the texture could actuall be modeled, you could include normal maps to increase the appearance of polygonal detail, you could use material shaders to give the shield the appearance of metal, his tunic the appearance of cloth, his belts the appearance of leather, his skin the appearnce of skin, and so on ... All of this comes at a massive cost as it increases the ammount of work necessary to complete the artistic assets.

What would you really gain from increasing thos graphics?

 

 

In my opinion most developers need to step out of the arms race and realise that there is little or no benefit to trying to one up eachother with better graphics and more advanced graphical techniques. Certainly, Konami can afford to spend $70 Million to produce Metal Gear Solid 4 because it is ensured sales to break even but most developers do not have this luxury.


I have to say i totaly agree with this point as well 



Nintendo & Sony Supporter

Currently own- DS, PSP, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, PS3 DreamCast.

Man i have too many consoles..... 

Quotes to live by!

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing"- Helen Keller

"i am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward"-Thomas Edison

"Man is not the creature of circumstancesCircumstances are the creatures of men"


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BornFirst. said:
ChronotriggerJM said:
I have a massive question to the OP, why is Innovation the new Fun? I'm personally much more concerned with playing good games then playing "different" ones. Innovation hasn't gone anywhere with the PS3 and the 360, it's not "magically lost", developers are still trying to keep there series's fresh, and personally adding things like Online Play, 4-8 player story co-op, Six-axis controls for flying segments, and games like Everyday shooter keep the market plenty fresh while leaving core gameplay at it's finest.

Yes there titles are expensive to produce, but I've heard games on PSN really aren't >_>; They both offer a service that lets you put out low budget, creative hook titles for a fraction of the cost of the "epic monstrosities" I disagree with the article.

I don't remember stating it being the new fun, i don't even remember saying i fully agree with the article, so i can not answer your question. not trying to be cheeky by the way


I'm not picking you out of a crowd in the least bit ^^ I just constantly here the word "innovative" being pushed around like it's the next god-send. Innovation to me is just as if not less important then all the other things being rated. Granted, I understand why Wii fans would push that priority as it is the best thing offered in their console of choice, but I just don't see it being what everyone says it is.

I mean hell, Uncharted was a mix of Gears of War, and Tomb Raider, and by golly I loved it! Nothing innovative at all, and it was absolutely fantastic :) I just don't want people to assume that every game created needs to be "innovative", there are so many things you can change to make your game unique that it doesn't have to be limited to "new ideas". I almost always prefer solid gameplay over unique. Hell the first person market would be pretty dead otherwise xD

@Kitler, good point with the Eye of Judgement, too bad the game itself wasn't as good as say Magic or Yugi xD Thats a concept waiting to be explored :)



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

>In my opinion most developers need to step out of the arms race and realise that there is little or no benefit to trying to one up eachother with better graphics and more advanced graphical techniques. Certainly, Konami can afford to spend $70 Million to produce Metal Gear Solid 4 because it is ensured sales to break even but most developers do not have this luxury.

In order to break even with that budget they have to sell around 3.5 million games to break even! That's not a guarantee. And Konami can not afford to just break even on their most important game of the year. They have to make big profits on it.
I don't think the budget will be that high. More in the range of $40 million (still high, but definitely profitable).

I do agree that devs will need to (and probably will) step out of this arms race temporarily, until prices to develop HD games have dropped. If profits on Wii games increase in comparisson with HD games the choice will be easy.



@ChronotriggerJM

I agree with you and i do think Sony are quite inovative with thier software, always have, but i guess the point of the article is more about independ devs, and the their difficulty to enter the gaming industry.



Nintendo & Sony Supporter

Currently own- DS, PSP, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, PS3 DreamCast.

Man i have too many consoles..... 

Quotes to live by!

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing"- Helen Keller

"i am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward"-Thomas Edison

"Man is not the creature of circumstancesCircumstances are the creatures of men"


ChronotriggerJM said:
llewdebkram said:
I'm guessing they are trying to do exactly the same as what now exisits in the movie and TV world; the same movies and TV series with the same stories and the same ideas but with different actors and locations.


Shrek 1,2,3 - Pirates of the Carribean 1,2,3 - Die hard 1,2,3,4 - Rambo 1,2,3,4 - Rocky 1,2,3,4 - Spiderman 1,2,3 and endless CGI movies recycled again and again.

Same old crap sold to us time and time again.

But at the same time your forgetting a universal quote, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". Franchises offer you an experience of "more of the same" (which could be a universal 10 in your book), while offering smaller tweaks in gameplay. I wouldn't consider franchises bad in any regards. If you feel the gameplay gets stale, theres nothing forcing you to continue to support it.


 Of course and I have no objection to them making sequels but I think it makes them very lazy and not prepared to take the risk of making something exciting and new.

They know sequels will make money so they don't really even need to put much thought or effort into them.

 



Yea but with the introduction of PSN and XBLA, and soon to be Wiiware, developers don't have to make a big budget game to sell in retail. I think companies will look at the alternatives ala Warhawk distribution.



I'm just saying...