Rogerioandrade said: That was... a pretty long read.. Anyway, apart some exaggerations, you nailed a lot of important points here.
I´m not sure if WiiU will be the best selling home console of this generation, but I think it does have a chance.
Still, all so-called "videogame media" arrogance and disbelief towards Nintendo is really annoying. It´s the kind of thing that still make people don´t take "videogame" journalism seriously, as movie/music/tv journalism is. Lack of professionalism
3rd-parties only care about money. The same third parties who now skip Nintendo with this bullshit talk of "not enough power" all tried to win big money manking casual games for the Wii, most of them didn´t succeed, because they underestimate the Wii audience.
"Not enough power" is partly shorthand for "it would be too much work to do it to justify the manpower, because we doubt we would get paid". There is concerns about cross-platform simultaneous releases also, and the games between all the platforms looking similar. End result, the Wii U just isn't worth it for them. There ARE issues involved when you throw a platform that is sufficiently underpowered in the mix, like not having big enough internal storage also.
In regard to the videogame media, if you try to google for ANY evidence it is professional in nature, one would be very hard pressed to find anything about it. Pay is generally very little, and you have anyone with any talent scurrying about trying to drum up hits for their own work. With margins as thin as they are, there is extra pressure on companies to try to influence everything. So, you will get all the issues they raise. Factor in also the annoying nature that hardcore fans are drawn to the industry and want to promote their company of choice, so you get the Gamestop employee angle (I am pretty sure Gamestop would have people work for free there if there was no minimum wage laws).
This being said, looks like one institution of higher learning wants to offer coursework in it:
Maybe they will surround the class with soda and Doritos and see if they get corrupted or not. Maybe they can see if the students resist double XP to be able to speak with honest objectivity.
good to see some of the old members back and posting but
wiiu will never sell 240M LT ever. i personally see it struggling to get to your end of 2014 sales for its LT, you'll see how off your end of 2013 projections are gonna be, i believe the ps3 is on the verge of over taking your so called 7th gen leader and really earning the title "the little engine that could"
must of just missed your era here in 07 but you posts have alot of charisma and hype to them you remind me of a nintendo version of a former vgc poster called megaman2, although he doesnt post on here would of been fun seeing the both of you here simultaneously
Why do you care so much about sales? Who cares if PS3 eventually outsells Wii? The Wii made a hell of a lot more money for Nintendo than PS3 did for Sony.
PS3 outselling Wii matters because PS3 doing a lot for a small minority of nerds on gaming message boards than Sony with the support of Games which the aformentioned small minority of nerds on gaming message boards want from a Console, whereas Wii Just did a revolution for the games industry to revitalize it and forget them without giving anymore games just after 3 years which is really bad from them and this proves that all they care about money making and don't give a shit about gamers if they lose money but Sony does risks for Gamers everything even though they make loss in it.
Sony is more passioned in Gaming right now than Nintendo in push technology, Games and Support. So, PS3 should sell more units and help sony to make more games for us. And this PS3 outselling(ultimately generating more money for Sony) Wii is what we gamers give Sony Top selling console which PS3 deserves for everything it did for Gamers.
Fixed for ya (at least the first part of the first sentence).. I'd try to fix the rest up, but my head might explode from the terrible grammar and lack of sense your post makes if I tried to continue much further... >_<
I think its extremely premature write off the Wii U as of yet. I think we are heading into an era where new type of games, with smaller budget, and a gameplay fusion of console and tablet controls coming into the horizon. The best example would be one of my favorite games, Warhammer. This type of game has always been more suitable to PC than consoles and the primary reason is because the controller is so limited. Imagine playing Warhammer on the Wii U, or Age of Empires, it would be so much easier to place your soldiers, scroll the map, manage multiple locations, strategize and navigate on the gamepad. I think strategy MMOs will find their home on the Wii U in a few years time. The Wii U is perfect for those kind of games.
YES!
I have said this would happen somewhere in this thread. Can't remember exactly where.
One thing I have noticed listening to gameplayers talk online is that there's a strong set of PC gamers who look down on Microsoft's & Sony's platforms but actually admire Nintendo's platforms. Their problem is that Microsoft's & Sony's platforms have become basically dumbed-down PCs. The PC gamers already paid the cost & did the building to make a strong gaming PC & when they look at XBoxes & PlayStations it triggers an uncanny valley effect. They hate the wannabe PCs but like the one who keeps a console a console.
It's fitting that Pikmin 3 shows up on the Wii U because Real-Time Strategy games are a NATURAL fit for the console. Let Nintendo bring another version of their Nintendo Wars series like say Battalion Wars—call it Battalion Wars U & promote that bad boy. Tom Clancy games may have a new life on Wii U. Tactical first-person shooters with routes mapped out.
The thing is first-person shooters should have been pioneered on the Wii to BEGIN with. Metroid Prime 3 gave a you a taste of what FPS's could do on the platform. It's easier to physically aim & point than to roll an analog stick to aim & point.
Wii U adds EVEN more because not only could you use Wiimote & Nunchuk to shoot & move, NOW you have the Gamepad (I call it the UPad) to use as a field commander so you can play as a squad in the same room. Not to mention map & menu functions.
When a developer finally utilizes Wii U's potential that developer will make itself VERY rich. John Lucas
Putting a map on a second screen in a FPS is generally a bad idea as then have to look away from the action to see where you are going. It's like putting the GPS in your car on your lap instead of on the dash.
Wii was also ideal for Real time strategy. Didn't happen despite having 2 Pikmin titles and Battalion Wars 2 to prove the concept.
But the real bottom line is this: The consumers who play those types of games (FPS, RTS) aren't the same consumers who buy Mario and Kirby. There are some exceptions here (especially HERE on this site) but in general RTS fans aren't interested in buying a Nintendo console. So no RTS game maker is suddenly going to use WiiU as it's leading (or exclusive) console. Much the same for FPS. Look at CoD sales on Wii vs 360/PS3. They speak for themselves.
Nintendo has tried to be all things to all gamers before (Gamecube). It's a mistake. As richardhutnik points out, WiiU isn't designed for 'next gen' games (which is only current gen if you're a PC gamer). It's designed to play 'last gen' aka 7th gen games. That's fine for Nintendo's IPs (overkill even) but not for 3rd parties which is why it's ignored.
PC gaming is experiencing a resurgence (despite all your logic to the contrary), and PS4/XB1 might actually boost that even more because they ARE basically dedicated gaming PCs and therefore it's never been easier to port games from PC to consoles and vice versa. So PCs should be getting more games than ever, day and date with consoles and PCs WILL have better graphics from day one (instead of 3 years later as usual).
If using a second screen proves to be popular (and so far it hasn't) then it's simple to add an app to allow people's smartphone/tablet to act as that second screen in any game (Smartglass...). Personally I'd prefer this as for a FPS I can prop my tablet by the tv so I don't have to look away and for a RTS I can just play off the tablet... but then what's the benefit of the TV screen?
A growing number of laptops also come with a touch screen and there are already RTS designed for touch screen play.
As WiiU's defining character Nintendo should have picked something that wasn't so easily (and immediately superior) to duplicate at zero cost to consumers. That is to say, if a RTS game offers the ability to play off touch screen (and I have one now on my touchscreen laptop BTW) it doesn't cost me a new hardware purchase like Kinect/Move did, since basically everyone owns a touch device already.
ASStronaut said: This is an excellent thread John Lucas. I hope everything you predict comes to fruition.
Odd statement coming from someone with a 360 gamer tag.
You realize JL is basing WiiU's success on the assumption that PS4/PS3/XB1/360/PC and mobile gaming at large all collapse totally leaving Nintendo as the lone player (which is not a healthy environment for game developers)
Thank you for being forth coming with these interesting facts. This link shows Wii U meets the minimum requirements (including ram) to support eso. Very cool. I know Bethesda isn't going to port it over, but it's good to know Wii U is capable. Though I'm curious to know why you don't think it is.
Check their target specs. The Wii U doesn't fit that at all. And it isn't just the RAM either, but other things. The BIG reason is this:
The Wii U doesn't have sufficiently large sales for third-porty to downscale their targeted coding to be able to get it to work on the Wii U. They just don't want to bother with it at all, because the sales aren't there, and it isn't like coding on the X86. They way they are targeting stuff, the Wii U isn't in the picture at all. And that is the reality. And ALL this cuts against what johnlucas is preaching that somehow, when the dust clears, EVERYONE is going to return to Nintendo, and Sony and Microsoft will be done. johnlucas in this thread is arguing that ONE company will be left after this generation is over, and that is Nintendo. Look at the thread.
I will NOT say that Nintendo can't get third-party in the future, and stuff be multiplatform, but it certainly isn't going to be the big open world stuff they have in mind for the PS4 and ONE. it would be different.
And another thing, look at the harddrive requirements for Elder Scrolls Online. That alone makes it not practical for the Wii U to do. For one thing, one of the Wii U's models can't install it, as it is. That model can add additional storage, but Bethesda would then have to increase the amount of testing needed to make sure ESO ran on a wide range of these external storage solutions. And that is NOT fun.
The short: Poor sales, too different specs = not bothering with the platform. Add in also the underpowered part for giggles. As it is now, the OUYA stands a better chance of getting third-party stuff thrown on it than the Wii U. All people need to do is just take their old Android code and tweak it for the OUYA controller. AND they are doing that
Exactly! It's the cpu architecture and smaller install base that keeps multiplatform pc games from coming to Wii U. Ppl are just having a giggle about the ram but it's not what's stopping the show. It's nice to agree once in a while. But that doesn't go against what johnlucas is saying. Based on sony's & ms' very unsuccessful attempts to make profit in their games division, I believe they will drop out of the console race one day. If they lose profits again this gen it's 'GAME OVER' for them. If & when that happens, big pc guys will either go back to pc, or begin developing on Nintendo, or both. And that of coarse includes the big open world stuff. Gta V, Eso, any modern open world game can be ported to Wii U and run as, or nearly as, intended. Like johnlucas said Nintendo is the groundskeeper. It's their business. They make sure this isn't a race to the bottom. Once sony & ms can't afford the losses anymore (like sega). They will unceremoniously exit the grounds.
In regards to the harddrive requirements. Those aren't necessary as far as my understanding, skyrim pc needed hdd space & yet skyrim ps360 didn't. If you suggest an mmo needs a hdd install for something Im unaware of; I'll entertain the idea for you. Any desktop external hdd with usb2.0 will work on Wii U. I know i just bought 2tb for $90. So if Eso did need a harddrive install, it could be download only from eshop or labeled as requiring space on the package. Not an issue.
John your logic and facts here have more holes than swiss cheese. Let's break it down.
And folks, please feel free to jump in here anytime.
OK, continue this we will. Swiss cheese holes, eh? At the end of this I'll ask Chester Cheetah who he thinks is Feelin' Cheesy.
Gamerace said:
I would expect any of the three (Nintendo, MS, Sony) having a new console out would lift or at least - at the very least - medigate the drop. There are 3 out of 5 new systems (WiiU, 3DS, Vita) so the majority on the market are new systems and still there is a significant year on year decrease, again for what? The fourth year in a row? IF this was all 7th gen systems, fine, expected but 60% are 8th gen systems!! That is a unmidigated disaster.
Now regretably, we can't access chartz on this website anymore, but I'm pretty sure 3DS is down ww year/year (up in NA in July though) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Wii/WiiU sales were below 2012's Wii's sales (which were soft).
UPDATE: And indeed they are. 3DS is down 14% from 2012's numbers (but a strong holiday season could fix this for the year). Wii and WiiU combined are below Wii's (poor) 2012 sales.
Nintendo hasn't been releasing monthly sales figures and NPD no longer publicly publishes so it's hard to determine but overall hardware across all systems (60% of them new) were DOWN 19% over 2012 which was DOWN 20% from 2011.
3DS and Vita should be in the peak year (based on sales histories) but it looks like they may have peaked really early and it's all downhill from here. WiiU will also likely peak in 2014. Which unless there's a massive turn-around unlike anything ever seen ever in video game history, will be a very low peak, even if they triple their current sales.
3DS is not on fire, it's smouldering. WiiU? Someone better blow on that ember before it goes out completely.
Hmm. He's using his math skills. Nice.
You're right. 3 out of the 5 active consoles are 8th gen. And 2 of those 3 are indeed Nintendo's. You are correct. Yes. Wii U has not started well. I haven't ran from that fact. In the opening post of this thread I specifically said that Nintendo bungled the transition from DS to 3DS & Wii to Wii U. And because of that bungling, Wii U hasn't YET propped up the overall industry numbers. Keyword is 'Yet'.
3DS couldn't offset Nintendo's losses in 2011-2012 but it will help them make that $1 billion profit for 2013. The peak ain't reached yet. 3DS started terrible too (& much of it was self-inflicted honestly) but when James Brown said "headin' for the turnaround!" 3DS said "Look at me! Ya know what ya see? Ya see a BAAAD Mutha!" When James Brown says "headin' for the turnaround!" one mo' time Wii U gon' say "TOLD ya so!" Nintendo Paid The Cost To Be The BOSS. They crossed the tracks & turned their backs. When it's said & done they're gonna be "Havin' fun. Got money to burn. Havin' fun. Got money to burn."
Gamerace said:
Yeah, I know it's a Market generation not tech. That's WHY I say WiiU will be classified as 7th gen in the history books, along with Wii. This is not unprecidented, both Atari 2600, and 5200 are considered 2nd gen.
While Wii introduced new concepts, definitely setting it apart from 6th gen systems, in innovation not in power. WiiU has introduced NOTHING. A 2nd screen? Sega Dreamcast had that. A 2nd touch screen? DS had that. There's no innovation. It does not and will not compete with PS4/XB1. It will live out it's sorry (my apologies Nintendo fans) life competing with PS3/360 and will be out of the market around the same time they are (2016). By then Nintendo WILL introduce another console which WILL define 8th gen much moreso than PS4/XB1 are set to do.
7th (2005 - 2016) gen will be recored thusly: Part 1: Wii,360,PS3, Part 2: 360/Kinect,PS3/Move,WiiU. 8th (2013 - 2023) Gen: Wii3, XB1, PS4
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Unbelieveable.
Wii U is 8th Generation. And the history books will show it as THE LEADER of the 8th Generation. This is almost zinger territory you're hitting. You're just making jokes now. Wii U is the First 8th gen home console on the market & it will be the LAST 8th gen home console on the market. I LOVE it when people pile on Nintendo when they think Nintendo's down & out. I LOVE it. It's gonna be SO sweet to see their reactions once Nintendo pushes off the pile.
I thought Microsoft was most in danger of falling out of the 8th gen but after learning about Sony's HQ sell-offs I have to say it can honestly go either way. Sony has 3 markets. Microsoft has 2 (1 1/2 more accurately). But Microsoft has more money to burn than Sony does. Either way the double-console setup the 3rd party has been employing—this PS360 kind of thing—will not sustain in the 8th gen. No PX41 this time around. Wii U will benefit & capitalize.
I'm gonna remind you of this zinger next year, Gamerace. Be ready for it.
Gamerace said:
You are showing your ignorance of the mobile market here. Zynga was focused on social (Facebook) games and came very late to the mobile market (only when it's audience had abandoned it). Its indicative of nothing.
Digital sales (Mobile/PC primarily and console games and DLC) are now 61% of the market.
While there are hundreds if not thousands of struggling mobile developers, there is unquestionable an immense market there and some of these companies and raking in mad money that would make Nintendo blush of embarrassment. Many of these mobile companies could easily buy up a lot of 3rd party console developers (Tencent owns 48.4% of Epic Games for example)
But console game developers are notoriously unprofitable or profit margins are downright lousy in comparison to mobile with much higher risks so why should they? That's a sinking ship. Nintendo included if they don't switch gears.
Boom cycle. You're getting caught up in the boom cycle. I post about Zynga because it serves as a warning to the mobile game world. I'm not getting caught up in this Lemmings style hype. I know better. We have seen this before. Many many times. Dot-com boom is a recent example. Tulip mania is an ancient one.
Zynga once had the highest tech stock offering since Google. They'll probably be out of business by the end of Obama's time in office. Look at the hype they once had on this Kotaku article from a couple of years ago.
It's about long-term & stability when it comes to business. Anybody can make a hit & be successful in the short-term. What happens when the craze wears off & people await your next big thing? Nintendo could have been a flash in the pan with Donkey Kong in the arcades back in the early 80s. But they had long-term vision for the business & it paid off. That's why they're still here all these years later pumping out hit after hit after hit. Anybody can be hot. But it takes much more than being hot to weather the storms of the tumultuous videogame business.
Even in those articles you put up, there are lines that foreshadow the inevitable with the smartphone/tablet gaming market. Read this line from GungHo sales up 945% in first half:
"Despite that acceleration in sales and profits, Toto noted signs that the Puzzle & Dragons phenomenon is slowing down. Even though the game hit 17 million registered users last week, GungHo acknowledged that its July sales were "just" $138 million, about $4.5 million a day. Toto said the company is picking up its efforts with Puzzle & Dragons, looking to release it in several European countries this year. It is also planning to bring it to the 3DS.
Interesting. 945% growth, multiple hundred million dollar profits, yet they STILL want to bring their game to the consoles.
"The company noted that merchandise and licensing generated about 30% of revenue in 2011. Rovio has more than 200 licensing partners creating products base on the Angry Birds franchise."
On March 6, the mobile app industry witnessed something that it had not seen since April 2010. No Rovio games in the US Top 90 chart of iPhone apps generating most revenue. According to Appshopper, Angry Birds Star Wars has dropped to #91 and Bad Piggies to #100 when it comes to making money. Both still fare well in the download charts at #8 and #13.
Something fascinating has happened in the app industry over the past two years; download volume performance has decoupled from revenue performance almost entirely. A few years ago, the original Angry Birds spent 22 months in the Top 20 chart of biggest revenue generating apps in America. The latest Angry Birds game struggled to stay 2 months in the Top 20.
The app industry revenue generation is now utterly dominated by free downloads that lure consumers into paying for in-game features month after month.
The extremes in the mobile app market are only growing more pronounced. Rage of Bahamut, an addictive card battle game, no longer makes it to the Top 1’000 of iPhone apps. Yet it remains the #14 app in America when it comes to revenue generation, far above the new #1 download app, Temple Run: Oz.
Both Apple‘s iOS and Google Play ecosystems are witnessing the same phenomenon. It cuts across Americas, Europe and Asia. The age of download-driven revenue generation is over. This has left old mega-franchises like Angry Birds with strong ongoing download performances, but rapidly shrinking share of direct game revenue. It is possible that Rovio has been so busy chasing down glamorous marketing partners from KISS to NASA that it simply forgot to focus on developing basic game mechanics.
Sheree Tsao, managing director of InterServ International, told attendees at the Hong Kong Information Infrastructure Expo and Conference last week that the online game industries in Taiwan and China were burgeoning but actual profits were low or non-existent.
'The combined vendor investment is larger than the total market size, with 60 per cent to 70 per cent of vendors losing money,' Ms Tsao said.
She said a large base of registered users did not necessarily equate in revenues. She recalled the early days of dotcom fervour, when valuations were based on questionable statistics, including those for user traffic and registered user numbers.
'A lot of users are used to playing games for free,' she said.
So Tencent is a hair from having a controlling interest in Epic Games. Microsoft bought Rare & look at what good that done them. I remember when it was 'AOL Time Warner' when America OnLine had 55% of the Time Warner combination. Look at 'em now. Buy-ups & mergers don't necessarily mean success. Nintendo will outlast all of these hotshots because they are based in stability & long-term visions. As comparatively small as they are, they held down giant after giant after giant. They can handle these mobile cats. I'm not worried.
Gamerace said:
This concept is flawed. Sony has been using the same controller for generations as has MS. Nintendo actually went backwards in controller design from Wii to WiiU. PC's have had the same keybound and mouse set-up for decades.
And yet somehow new inventive games come out on all these systems every year. PC gaming is experiencing a huge resurgence with the highest sales in twenty years:
How is this possible without a controller breakthrough? Your entire argument here is flawed and without any basis.
Besides which for mobile, you can bluetooth in any controller you want. Including a Wiimote. A great many mobile games have support for traditional controllers now and with Ouya, Gamepop, Gamestick, Razor, et al, this will only excellerate.
That's exactly the problem. Input devices change how you play. Sony's marriage to that SNES/N64 hybrid is why they're making PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale & LittleBigPlanet Karting. Trying to mimic Nintendo's ideas with Super Smash Bros. & Super Mario Kart because they have no more ideas of their own. Both Microsoft's & Sony's controllers came from Nintendo's standard. They're just playing different variations of Nintendo controllers.
I read that article you put up on PC gaming. It said that all PC developers combined sold $20 billion in revenues in 2012. Nintendo alone in its 2008 surge had over $16 billion in revenue. They had over $18 billion in revenue in 2009. BY THEMSELVES ALONE. Add in Microsoft's & Sony's revenues from their videogame branches & it dwarfs that $20 billion easily. PC folks have figured out how to DLC the games they put out & draw money out of them over years & years. Unit sales of the games still pale in comparison to the unit sales of console games. Output is much less also. But as I keep saying, if PC gaming is so robust how come the PC developers won't stay purely on the PC? Blizzard's the only major one I see that remains PURELY on the PC. Even Maxis comes to the consoles in some forms though they make much of their money from the PC. It's pretty much Blizzard & Maxis running what's left of the PC world with some Valve in there Steaming things up. Remember Diablo III is made by Blizzard.
PC's were supposed to kill consoles but it didn't happen. And one reason is because of the limitations of keyboard & mouse, the input device. PC gaming will survive due to mods & the general hobbyist roots it comes from. Business-wise it can never compare to the consoles. Oh & that point about Ouya, GameStick & all that. PCs can play all the controllers from all the consoles too including Wii. That doesn't stop the console from eating the PC's lunch, does it? It's gonna be no different for mobile AKA the new PC.
Gamerace said:
You realize cloud eleminates the need for unity between devices? You only need a (somewhat) standard control scheme between devices which is easily accomplished (see above) with bluetooth controllers.
Ever heard of Netflix? Which is so big now it's starting to threaten the cable market's hold on the industry? XBox Live and PSN as cloud services (and likely with some other competition sure) would operate in the same manner. Flat fee monthly charge for unlimited gameplay of whatever is your fancy at the moment on whatever device you happen to have handy. This is a HIGHLY profittable model for Sony/MS and a whole lot less risky than hardware generations.
So why hasn't OnLive set the gaming world on fire yet? A company that was once valued at $1.8 billion sold assets last year to another company for under $5 million then reestablished OnLive company. And STILL hasn't changed the world of videogaming.
ISPs have put data caps on users. Streaming has limitations. And the hardware DOES matter. The interplay of the software & the hardware is what has made Nintendo stand above all competitors in gaming. Do you think the hardware of PCs & the hardware of XBoxes, PlayStations, & Wiis have NOTHING to do with how the games perform? OnLive nor any other cloud gaming service can quite capture the intricacies all of those devices in one single unit. So the unity of the devices can not be eliminated.
Sony's out here with Gaikai cutting off their nose to spite their face. They need to sell PlayStations to pull themselves out of this rut. When you make your own game-playing machine irrelevant, it's kinda hard to come out of the rut. They're not real gamemakers & their games are not the anchors that inspire the adoption of their platform. They are 3rd party based & all they would do is separate the console-sellers from themselves.
And did you really just say Netflix? That's PASSIVE media. Videogames are ACTIVE media. INTERACTIVE media. It must stay dynamic to stay vibrant. It DEPENDS on the innovation of the playing experience. Physically & mentally. Netflix is just watching a screen. Not much more you can do with that. You can put that in a cloud if you want (me personally I would rather own the things what I watch). The only cloud-based gaming thing that needs to be is network service. The rest have to stay right down on here on solid earthy ground.
Gamerace said:
If Nintendo wants to remain making hardware once things goto the clouds, they really will need a new Wii. Something with a fun, accessible, control scheme that opens new gameplay not possible on cloud games (like Wii Sports vs CoD on cloud). But we're still at least a couple years away from that reality happening.
I don't think anything there needs a rebuttal.
While you are right in that the current console and mobile game markets are unstable and must and will change, you still have no basis for assuming WiiU (which is just another HD 7th gen console after all) is somehow different than anything else out there to 'save' the industry from itself.
Right now all the WiiU and 3DS have to do is connect Nintendo to consumers for it's games. 3DS is doing a decent job of that. Clearly WiiU is not. The gamepad is a turn-off to consumers and adds a lot to the cost. A double-whammy kick to Nintendo's groins. Plus of course, it helps when Nintendo has some games on the system for people to play and buy it for. This WiiU drought was absurb, even by Nintendo's horrid standard. But games and price aside, WiiU remains an unappealing system. I get what Nintendo's vision was for it, but the execution on both 3DS and WiiU was horrid and WiiU's gamepad is devastatingly regressive. They have shot themselves in the foot with that and a lot of their policies. They need to stop playing it safe and take some big Wii-type risks or they will find themselves in Blackberry's position (or MS as far as operating systems goes or Zynga or anyone other giant that didn't keep up with the times). But don't worry, worse case scenario - Gungho buys them out and puts their IPs on mobile.
They don't need a new Wii. They HAVE the new Wii. They have the Wii U & that is all that they will need. Nintendo didn't get to where they are by having their heads in the clouds. They knew that they would have to make their dreams reality. It can't all be vapors. It can't all be fantasies. All these platforms & all these services...at the end of the day just like Nintendo knows it's all about THE GAMES. Once the games populate Wii U's platform on a more prominent basis, the sales will improve. Iwata's committed to that $1 billion profit for Nintendo in this fiscal year. This is not a man who blows smoke out of his 'arsenal'.
Keep up with the times. Hahahahaha. Nintendo is Timeless & that's why they outlast all the "hot trends" & the "happening fashions". They are true to themselves & that is the key to their success. When everybody goes right, Nintendo goes left. After Nintendo goes left, everybody goes left with them. Why? Because they're the Leaders of the Videogaming Business. They are today, they were yesterday, and they will be tomorrow.
If Microsoft couldn't buy Nintendo, what makes you think GungHo will?
To quote the famous man in green, "This is STILL our world. And in the end, no amount of money can stop...A Revolution."
Keep up with the times. Hahahahaha. Nintendo is Timeless & that's why they outlast all the "hot trends" & the "happening fashions". They are true to themselves & that is the key to their success. When everybody goes right, Nintendo goes left. After Nintendo goes left, everybody goes left with them. Why? Because they're the Leaders of the Videogaming Business. They are today, they were yesterday, and they will be tomorrow.
If Microsoft couldn't buy Nintendo, what makes you think GungHo will?
To quote the famous man in green, "This is STILL our world. And in the end, no amount of money can stop...A Revolution."
John Lucas
Your ignoring the inconvenient facts John.
3DS sales are still down.
WiiU has not attracted an audience. Period. At least you're not hiding behind the lack of games (which do factor in but not in January when WiiU had lots of fresh releases and still sales dropped off a cliff).
Games alone cannot save a poor console design. Didn't save the Virtual boy, didn't save the GC. Both were selling better than WiiU at the moment. So Nintendo has NO history of recessitating a console from this kind of dis-interest. 3DS was selling way better, even at it's worse, than WiiU and Vita was an even bigger disaster - more disconnected from the consumer's interests and more expensive - so 3DS had no competition (other than mobile). WiiU will have LOTS of serious competition at very aggresive price points. Both above it's price point with PS4 being only $100 more for a more powerful system with a lot more memory and games, and below with $99+ Android/iOS consoles.
I'm not disagreeing about the instability of either the 8th gen console market or mobile market. But in no way is WiiU in a superior, or even as good, position. If anything is going to benefit from PS4/XB1 failure it'll be PC and mobile. The PC market has survived longer than Nintendo and it's not going anywhere. Not when it's enjoying it's best sales in twenty years and still growing.
Yes, the mobile market is going through a boom cycle to be followed by bust. So did the console market and PC games when they started. They are still around (even if very few of the original game developers are) and so will mobile be as well.
I'm not even hating on Nintendo. I believing in Nintendo. I AM predicting they'll will the 8th gen. Nintendo has the mass appeal (potential) that Sony/MS cant touch. But WiiU does not. It's not the ship that's going to get them there. It's another Virtual Boy/GC. It's a backward step away from what the Wii started.
And you have yet to say a single thing to show otherwise other than Nintendo's history but their history is not favourable to consoles selling even close to WiiU's levels. It's not on your side. Yes I get what Nintendo was TRYING to do. I get that they understand the market better and are thinking longer term but they are certainly not immune to mistakes (remember Wii Music?) but they do tend to recover from them nicely.
Thank you for being forth coming with these interesting facts. This link shows Wii U meets the minimum requirements (including ram) to support eso. Very cool. I know Bethesda isn't going to port it over, but it's good to know Wii U is capable. Though I'm curious to know why you don't think it is.
Check their target specs. The Wii U doesn't fit that at all. And it isn't just the RAM either, but other things. The BIG reason is this:
The Wii U doesn't have sufficiently large sales for third-porty to downscale their targeted coding to be able to get it to work on the Wii U. They just don't want to bother with it at all, because the sales aren't there, and it isn't like coding on the X86. They way they are targeting stuff, the Wii U isn't in the picture at all. And that is the reality. And ALL this cuts against what johnlucas is preaching that somehow, when the dust clears, EVERYONE is going to return to Nintendo, and Sony and Microsoft will be done. johnlucas in this thread is arguing that ONE company will be left after this generation is over, and that is Nintendo. Look at the thread.
I will NOT say that Nintendo can't get third-party in the future, and stuff be multiplatform, but it certainly isn't going to be the big open world stuff they have in mind for the PS4 and ONE. it would be different.
And another thing, look at the harddrive requirements for Elder Scrolls Online. That alone makes it not practical for the Wii U to do. For one thing, one of the Wii U's models can't install it, as it is. That model can add additional storage, but Bethesda would then have to increase the amount of testing needed to make sure ESO ran on a wide range of these external storage solutions. And that is NOT fun.
The short: Poor sales, too different specs = not bothering with the platform. Add in also the underpowered part for giggles. As it is now, the OUYA stands a better chance of getting third-party stuff thrown on it than the Wii U. All people need to do is just take their old Android code and tweak it for the OUYA controller. AND they are doing that
Exactly! It's the cpu architecture and smaller install base that keeps multiplatform pc games from coming to Wii U. Ppl are just having a giggle about the ram but it's not what's stopping the show. It's nice to agree once in a while. But that doesn't go against what johnlucas is saying. Based on sony's & ms' very unsuccessful attempts to make profit in their games division, I believe they will drop out of the console race one day. If they lose profits again this gen it's 'GAME OVER' for them. If & when that happens, big pc guys will either go back to pc, or begin developing on Nintendo, or both. And that of coarse includes the big open world stuff. Gta V, Eso, any modern open world game can be ported to Wii U and run as, or nearly as, intended. Like johnlucas said Nintendo is the groundskeeper. It's their business. They make sure this isn't a race to the bottom. Once sony & ms can't afford the losses anymore (like sega). They will unceremoniously exit the grounds.
In regards to the harddrive requirements. Those aren't necessary as far as my understanding, skyrim pc needed hdd space & yet skyrim ps360 didn't. If you suggest an mmo needs a hdd install for something Im unaware of; I'll entertain the idea for you. Any desktop external hdd with usb2.0 will work on Wii U. I know i just bought 2tb for $90. So if Eso did need a harddrive install, it could be download only from eshop or labeled as requiring space on the package. Not an issue.
Where RAM comes in is when you design a game around the amount of RAM used. Game designs factor this in. If you change the baseline amount of RAM, you need to redesign the games. Third party is coding around the 8GB-OS requirements of RAM on the PS4 and ONE. They are going open world and planning this. They would have to fundamentally change what they are doing. They just don't want to. They requested 8GB of RAM for numerous reasons. And if a game is coded to this, then the Wii U version would have to be a rework, which they don't want to do.
You see games like Minecraft, for example on the 360, being smaller than the PC version, with the RAM being a reason. Civilization 4 and 5 didn't come to the consoles, but Civilization Revelotion did, which was designed for the limitations. It actually was mapped spec-wise to the Nintendo DS, with the PS3 and 360 versions being just as small, with improved graphics.
RAM DOES matter. One can choose to design different games with different factors involved.
You can also cross out the OUYA comment, BUT you ARE getting Android games appearing in the OUYA market, because of how simple it is to do. The ease to port is an important part of this.
Thank you for being forth coming with these interesting facts. This link shows Wii U meets the minimum requirements (including ram) to support eso. Very cool. I know Bethesda isn't going to port it over, but it's good to know Wii U is capable. Though I'm curious to know why you don't think it is.
Check their target specs. The Wii U doesn't fit that at all. And it isn't just the RAM either, but other things. The BIG reason is this:
The Wii U doesn't have sufficiently large sales for third-porty to downscale their targeted coding to be able to get it to work on the Wii U. They just don't want to bother with it at all, because the sales aren't there, and it isn't like coding on the X86. They way they are targeting stuff, the Wii U isn't in the picture at all. And that is the reality. And ALL this cuts against what johnlucas is preaching that somehow, when the dust clears, EVERYONE is going to return to Nintendo, and Sony and Microsoft will be done. johnlucas in this thread is arguing that ONE company will be left after this generation is over, and that is Nintendo. Look at the thread.
I will NOT say that Nintendo can't get third-party in the future, and stuff be multiplatform, but it certainly isn't going to be the big open world stuff they have in mind for the PS4 and ONE. it would be different.
And another thing, look at the harddrive requirements for Elder Scrolls Online. That alone makes it not practical for the Wii U to do. For one thing, one of the Wii U's models can't install it, as it is. That model can add additional storage, but Bethesda would then have to increase the amount of testing needed to make sure ESO ran on a wide range of these external storage solutions. And that is NOT fun.
The short: Poor sales, too different specs = not bothering with the platform. Add in also the underpowered part for giggles. As it is now, the OUYA stands a better chance of getting third-party stuff thrown on it than the Wii U. All people need to do is just take their old Android code and tweak it for the OUYA controller. AND they are doing that
Exactly! It's the cpu architecture and smaller install base that keeps multiplatform pc games from coming to Wii U. Ppl are just having a giggle about the ram but it's not what's stopping the show. It's nice to agree once in a while. But that doesn't go against what johnlucas is saying. Based on sony's & ms' very unsuccessful attempts to make profit in their games division, I believe they will drop out of the console race one day. If they lose profits again this gen it's 'GAME OVER' for them. If & when that happens, big pc guys will either go back to pc, or begin developing on Nintendo, or both. And that of coarse includes the big open world stuff. Gta V, Eso, any modern open world game can be ported to Wii U and run as, or nearly as, intended. Like johnlucas said Nintendo is the groundskeeper. It's their business. They make sure this isn't a race to the bottom. Once sony & ms can't afford the losses anymore (like sega). They will unceremoniously exit the grounds.
In regards to the harddrive requirements. Those aren't necessary as far as my understanding, skyrim pc needed hdd space & yet skyrim ps360 didn't. If you suggest an mmo needs a hdd install for something Im unaware of; I'll entertain the idea for you. Any desktop external hdd with usb2.0 will work on Wii U. I know i just bought 2tb for $90. So if Eso did need a harddrive install, it could be download only from eshop or labeled as requiring space on the package. Not an issue.
Where RAM comes in is when you design a game around the amount of RAM used. Game designs factor this in. If you change the baseline amount of RAM, you need to redesign the games. Third party is coding around the 8GB-OS requirements of RAM on the PS4 and ONE. They are going open world and planning this. They would have to fundamentally change what they are doing. They just don't want to. They requested 8GB of RAM for numerous reasons. And if a game is coded to this, then the Wii U version would have to be a rework, which they don't want to do.
You see games like Minecraft, for example on the 360, being smaller than the PC version, with the RAM being a reason. Civilization 4 and 5 didn't come to the consoles, but Civilization Revelotion did, which was designed for the limitations. It actually was mapped spec-wise to the Nintendo DS, with the PS3 and 360 versions being just as small, with improved graphics.
RAM DOES matter. One can choose to design different games with different factors involved.
You can also cross out the OUYA comment, BUT you ARE getting Android games appearing in the OUYA market, because of how simple it is to do. The ease to port is an important part of this.
I understand why you mention the ouya market. Ease of development is the key issue and not power. Android/iOS just isn't on my radar is all. Little games for a buck each. It adds up but it's not interesting to me.
In regards to ram, again we agree. Except I prefer we say available ram, ie 1gb & 4gb for Wii U & Px1 respectively. But it's only semantics, and we know what eachother mean. There's obviously a lot of reasons why Wii U gets support from Activision, Ubisoft, Warner bros, etc... and not Rockstar, Bethesda, EA, etc. I think we can agree that, in order to have broader 3rd party support, either:
a) Wii U would need a very big install base to warrant x86/ppc AND 1gb/4gb conversion investments from tepid companies.
b) Wii U would need a new manufacturing plant and re-train it's world class devs to use x86 architecture, as well as include 4gb ram for game software.
Obviously, Nintendo isn't going to choose option b. It would cost much more than they can afford and would degrade the quality of in house software. This literally means Nintendo would go broke and depend on 3rd parties to stay alive. Exactly like sony & ms. See why this option puts Nintendo at a disadvantage? They are at a disadvantage either way. But option a gives them profitability and the Nintendo Seal of Quality on their software. If the strategy holds and they make a profit while playstation and xbox have another gen of losses, Wii U will get the 3rd parties in the end.
