| Twilord said: May I throw out a prediction too? 3DS 80M-120M PS4 65M-70M Wii-U 60M-65M Xbone 30M-50M Vita 20M-35M Wild-card: Steambox 20M-80M |
U are the most particle person on this thread, I'm guessing.
Yakuzaice said:
They don't have the majority of home console market share right now (weekly or LTD), so how will they always have it during this gen? |
Wow.
Can U show Mii those numbers?
| Kaizar said:
That's your opinion, I consider Final Fantasy IX the best in the series. I'm talking about critical acclaim here. And Castlevania did get a game on N64, it was actually supposed to be the next big step for the IP. Castlevania 64, often considered one of the worst games in the series. And I highly doubt FFVII or MGS would have ended up on N64 the same way with that limited cartridge space. But you're missing the point, Lucas said that 3rd parties started making awful games after they left Nintenfo, I disputed that. Not on handheld, and the Wii U is going to be different. No it clearly isn't. Go look at the sales for 3rd party games and compare them to Playstation or Xbox. But what about two years from now, when the next COD comes out. The WiiU will be even more irrevelent. Once again, the Wii U will be different. PC Gamers have already said they are buying the Wii U version of games over the PC version. And yet every other version sells better than the WiiU ports. Interesting. But Call of Duty gamers are casual, and Pokémon RPG gamers are Hardcore. I don't even know how to respond to this. It didn't happen because there's more then just Xbox & Nintendo in the competition, which makes too much competition, forcing Xbox hands. Xbox didn't give a crap about Nintendo, they were largely irrelevent at that point, it was because Sony made a big show at E3 that prevented them from going forward with the DRM. But again, you're missing the point. Lucas said that the XBO had all that DRM crap, it doesn't. Hes talking about how excited they got for the system, not how many people got excited, but the quality of excitement. So? I was pretty damn excited when my PS4 arrived. Only the Wii U & 3DS will capture that blue ocean market, they won't buy the others. Don't forget people who actually bought a PS3 & 360, had to replace their broken system, and others upgraded to higher internal memory, so the ownership volume isn't nowhere near as good as sells.
Nintendo Network is better then Playstation network, and Nintendo Wi-fI connection was intrigreted, but yes, the old Nintendo Wi-FI Connection was bad for Wii gaming back then. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh God. This is beyond delusional, you actual consider Nintendo Network to be in anyway comparable to PSN? Once again, Nintendo Network is better then PSN. the old days are over in everyway. No no no no no no no no. It isn't. This isn't even an opinion, PSN and XBL shit all over Nintendo Network. Once again, did you know Nintendo games are still tied to the hardware and no the account? How in the world could you say that's better than PSN? Actually Nintendo keeps their systems cheap because they really want to give them for free, but that's not possible, so they balance tech with price and meet in the middle. I don't even... You can get Mario galaxy 1 & 2 for very cheap, like $20 each. Also look at Paper Mario Sticker Star price. Oh great, many years after they launched you can get a discount. Way to go Nintendo. Most Nintendo games are still full price anyways. Then why has no one express else wise, when so many have express what he claims. Plenty of people have. Go on Reddit, or Gamefaqs, thousands of gamers have talked about leaving Nintendo. Give the Wii u 6 more months, since that's how long it took for the 3DS turn around. I'm given them 14 months and they haven't turned anything around. Once again, you need to give the Wii U the same 6 remaining months the 3DS had. Once again they've already had 14 months to turn things around. And the 360 controller looks like the GameCube controller. Fair enough. I also got nothing better to do, LOL. |
Sigs are dumb. And so are you!
Fusioncode said:
|
Just wait and see starting in 2 to 3 years from now.
Just wait 1 year from now.
With a current install base of only 5 million. It's clearly going to take 2 to 3 years to actuall sell better on Wii u, then other electronics.
Okay?
I think I pointed that out, so we are in agreement. And I think John was referring to Xbox original intent, and not final result. (that's what I was trying to say)
In it he is just claiming that people get even more excited for a Nintendo System, then the people who only get excited by a PS and/or Xbox system.
I was talking about online gaming. Guess I should have been specific. Nintendo will move your games to a different a system, they allow it, but it takes some effort or something like that. Anyways I think the Wii U fixes anything else you might be are talking about.
Games like Paper Mario Sticker Star just released. And yeah, it's called supply & demand, Sony & Microsoft do it too.
They are TALKING about leaving, but haven't done it. Let's wait a few months or so.
The 3Ds released February 2011 and turn around Q4 2012. (competition, had to be sure, because of Vita in the game. Sound familiar). Anyways, that's 18 months, just because the Vita is also on the market. So U still have to wait 4 more months.
As explained above, because PS4 & ONE are also on the market now, so give Wii U 4 more months.
| Kaizar said:
Just wait and see starting in 2 to 3 years from now. What's going to change in 2-3 years? If 3rd parties games aren't selling on WiiU now then why would they sell 2 years from now? Just wait 1 year from now. See Above. With a current install base of only 5 million. It's clearly going to take 2 to 3 years to actuall sell better on Wii u, then other electronics. 3rd party games are selling fine on PS4 and XBO now and they've only been out a month. How much longer do we need to wait for the WiiU?
In it he is just claiming that people get even more excited for a Nintendo System, then the people who only get excited by a PS and/or Xbox system. Bullshit statement. Plenty of people get way more excited for PS or Xbox then Nintendo. I was talking about online gaming. Guess I should have been specific. Nintendo will move your games to a different a system, they allow it, but it takes some effort or something like that. Anyways I think the Wii U fixes anything else you might be are talking about. Once again, the online on Nintendo systems is worthless. And it shouldn't take extra effort to do something on WiiU that you can do much easier on Xbox or PS. Things should be simple and convenient. Games like Paper Mario Sticker Star just released. And yeah, it's called supply & demand, Sony & Microsoft do it too. No it's called greed. They are TALKING about leaving, but haven't done it. Let's wait a few months or so. Look at the install base for Wii, then look at the install base for WiiU. Many many Wii gamers have jumped ship. The 3Ds released February 2011 and turn around Q4 2012. (competition, had to be sure, because of Vita in the game. Sound familiar). Anyways, that's 18 months, just because the Vita is also on the market. So U still have to wait 4 more months. 3DS turned things around late 2011 not 2012. It was a combination of a price cut, Mario 3D Land, Monster Hunter, and MK7. It only took them 9 months or so. As explained above, because PS4 & ONE are also on the market now, so give Wii U 4 more months. I'm sick of waiting for a turnaround that will never happen. Nintendo lost this gen, accept it and move on. |
Sigs are dumb. And so are you!
Kaizar said:
|
Yeah because that's really going to happen isn't it. Did you miss the bit about XB1 doing more in 5 weeks than WiiU has in 12+ months? The demand is there because it caters to a specific audience, the same one as the 360. It doesn't need to beat PS4 or even hit 360 lifetime numbers to be a success for MS.
| Kaizar said:
Wow. Can U show Mii those numbers? |
You can see on the front page that the Wii U is at 46.3%. It was also less than 25% this most recent week, so that number will likely continue to drop. That is before the PS4 and XBO have even released worldwide. Wii U market share in the countries where all three have released is even lower.
| impertinence said: John Lucas, a lot of this is great, but I wish you would refrain from the personal jabs as well. It's not really part of the argument how cynical Mummelmann might be nor your analysis of it. That said, strong comeback can't wait for the continuation. To the rest of you, no matter what you think about the topic at hand, does it not peak your interest a little bit extra when you see the last porter was Johnlucas? I have to say, again he's put forward an interesting observation in contrasting Nintendo as a toy company making tech and the other two as tech companies making a toy. I also enjoy the thinking around why there are so many playing card references in Nintendo games. Good observation and an interesting thought. Hopefully the answer also puts to rest the claim of trying to frame the dabate and the cult of Lucas references people keep making. None of that is based on very solid reasoning in my opinion. |
You're right, impertinence.
I shouldn't take the bait Mummelmann is trying to set for me.
Just because he's trying to make this personal doesn't mean I should reflect the same back at him.
I got a confrontational personality & I like to fight fire with fire. When people try to push me around, I push back.
But I'm better off just staying on-topic with the arguments at hand. I'll keep that in mind, impertinence.
As you saw, I showed his words, the arguments he was making in context.
There's no way he can sidestep what I refuted.
I discovered years ago that companies rarely if ever separate from their origins.
You can think of it as a spiritual string binding all of their separate actions together.
There's always something about their original business that flavors how they approach every new business they enter.
There's a DNA for companies that guides their every move.
When a company strays too far from its DNA, they won't be successful.
Microsoft can deal with computer works for the home, for the business, for the industry.
But they must deal in computer works or something related to computer works. They can't just transition into food service.
Apple was the first company to mainstream the personal computer, the computer for the home.
They CAN work in business & industry but it won't quote work out the same because they came from personal computing.
That's why they can transition better into personal electronics like the iPod, iPad, & iPhone.
Apple has always made their computer products fit the decor of a home. Always focused on aesthetics.
So their products don't come off as sterile & boring. Their electronics give a sense of personality.
Sega was arcade from the very beginning when they were the American company Service Games.
Service Games started out with coin-operated jukeboxes, pinball machines, & slot machines.
Going from old-style mechanical arcades to video arcades was just a natural progression.
And even as Sega got into the home market with the SG-1000, MasterSystem, Mega Drive (Genesis) you notice that they STILL focused on their arcades.
Video arcades were designed to be fast-paced & tricky to turn over quarters from players.
Is there any surprise that Sonic the Hedgehog seems to follow that model with his "blast processing" self?
Is there any surprise that there's arcade pinball-style gameplay as Sonic rolls up into a ball through those loops & bounces on the pegs during the special stages?
Even the Saturn was produced with an arcade focus. They gave us their hot arcade Virtua Fighter as a launch title.
Is it any surprise that Sega later teams up with Sammy Corporation, the arcade pachinko maker?
You go to some stores today & you may see a plush machine at the entrance with a Sega logo on it, maybe even Sonic the Hedgehog.
What is a plush machine other than another coin-operated arcade game?
THQ. What does that stand for? Most people don't know.
That's the problem when you abbreviate things too much. Things lose meaning.
THQ stands for Toy HeadQuarters. It was the spiritual successor to LJN.
Both THQ & LJN were founded by Jack Friedman. LJN started as a toy company in 1970.
Jack Friedman named it LJN as the reverse initials of Norman J. Lewis whose toy company Norman J. Lewis Associates once employed Friedman as a sales rep in the 60s.
Fast forward to the 1980s & LJN, the company that brought you the Cabbage Patch Kids, gets a contract to produce dolls—excuse me, action figures for the WWF.
LJN WWF Wrestling Superstars—The Best Wrestling Toys Ever?
JG's Ten Reasons Why WWF LJN Figures Were The Greatest Toys Ever
Vince McMahon had just taken over the WWF from his father & was skewing wrestling to be more appealing to a younger audience.
Kids were already watching wrestling anyway but now it would be even MORE attractive to them.
Wanna get the kids, gotta get the toys & toy company LJN naturally fit the bill.
Both LJN & the WWF were based out of the New York City area anyhow.
With LJN already working with the WWF with their toy lines, it wasn't too much of a stretch to see them go into publishing WWF videogames.
Videogame consoles are just high-tech toys after all & in the 1980s it was all about the WWF & the NES for kids.
LJN already published the love-it-or-hate-it Friday the 13th for the NES in 1989 among other earlier titles so videogames was the proper step for them.
Acclaim published the Rare-developed (Rare really? Wow.) WWF WrestleMania from 1989 & LJN published the Rare-developed sequel WWF WrestleMania Challenge from 1990.
MCA (Music Corporation of America), which had been buying up hosts of companies specifically focusing on toy companies, had bought controlling interest in LJN in 1985. But due to the Entertech toy gun fiasco (water guns that looked too real & caused kids to be accidentally shot & killed) which dropped MCA's profits down severely, MCA ended up selling LJN to Acclaim in March 1990.
Friedman wanted to run his own business so he left LJN right before the sale (just as well since Acclaim was just gonna use LJN as another videogame label instead of a toy maker).
He then founds THQ a mere 2 months later in May 1990.
The company logo was once defined as T*HQ, specifying the TOY of Toy HeadQuarters.
But Friedman was uneasy with the technological advances that would happen as the 4th Generation morphed into the 5th Generation.
He was said to be a low-tech kind of dude. He could work with games if they stayed more in the toy kind of area.
He leaves THQ in 1995 to start ANOTHER toy/game company Jakks Pacific. Now you know what the Jakk in Jakks Pacific stands for.
Watch where I'm going with all this now.
THQ without Jack Friedman had already dropped its toy business & focused on being solely a game publisher.
Naturally, they gain much prominence publishing wrestling games starting with PlayStation's WCW Nitro & more importantly the holy quartet of WCW vs. nWo World Tour, WCW/nWo Revenge, WWF WrestleMania 2000, & WWF No Mercy (Ironically Acclaim is producing WWF War Zone, WWF Attitude, ECW Hardcore Revolution around this time).
Friedman established the wrestling link back in the 1980s with LJN, remember?
THQ even without Friedman followed the path its founder set & became the official publisher of WWF wrestling games.
All the Smackdown! games & everything else from the WWF/WWE became THQ's bread & butter.
Interesting that you see Jakks Pacific logos on the intro screens of these wrestling games, huh? Wonder what the link is?
But THQ doesn't just want to be a wrestling game publisher, they want to be another Activision or Electronic Arts.
They acquire numerous studios & put out countless games of hit and miss quality going for the sheer quantity approach to make money.
As 5th gen goes into 6th & 6th gen goes into 7th, we're getting more & more technological with these high-tech toys known as videogame consoles.
Jack Friedman is a low-tech guy who stays in the realm of toys. From what I have shown you find it obvious why Jakks Pacific chooses to make those Plug & Play consoles most often featuring those retro games from 2nd, 3rd, & 4th generations when videogames were more associated with toys than tech.
THQ had LONG forgotten what its initials stand for (Toy HeadQuarters) & put more focus on the high-tech consoles the XBox 360 & PlayStation 3.
For Wii, THQ somehow realigns with the recently deceased Jack Friedman's original vision for the company & puts out a toy tablet called uDraw in 2010.
The T of T*HQ was back & THQ had some success with this drawing tablet. A toymaker & a toymaker meet. THQ & Nintendo.
But THQ is convinced that the 360 & PS3 is where the REAL action's at & overproduce uDraw for those tech-focused consoles.
Total bomb, of course, & with the tech-focused Homefront, THQ's bread & butter—the wrestling games—couldn't stop the bleeding.
Too much of trying to be who they aren't doomed THQ, Toy HeadQuarters, T*HQ to extinction.
You must stay in line with your roots some kind of way.
Expand & experiment but never forget your origins.
Remember who you are no matter how much the times may change around you.
Nintendo knows who they are & that's why they can resist the groupthink & the "well-intentioned" bad advice.
Nintendo is in touch with their roots. They're still in line with their DNA. They remember their origins.
They are not a tech company. They use tech to deliver card, toy, & game.
Like an adept card player or a magician with card tricks, Nintendo President Satoru Iwata talks about Nintendo's ability to deliver "meaningful surprises".
John Lucas
Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot
WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!
Fusioncode said:
|
Let's just come back to this discussion in December 2K14.
I can say the Wii U will win.
You can say the PS4 and/or ONE will win.
But seeing is believing about 2014, so let's just come back to this discussion in Q4 2014, so there won't be any way out of the discussion for either of us.
Seece said:
Yeah because that's really going to happen isn't it. Did you miss the bit about XB1 doing more in 5 weeks than WiiU has in 12+ months? The demand is there because it caters to a specific audience, the same one as the 360. It doesn't need to beat PS4 or even hit 360 lifetime numbers to be a success for MS. |
The only problem with that is that we all know that PlayStation gamers mostly buy everything in the first 30 days, and Xbox gamers in the first 60 days.
Nintendo buyers mostly buy any 3rd & 1st party software & hardware throughout 5 years.
Ive seen it before, something releases on PS3 & 360, and it has no legs, but a great first 1 to 3 months, while something releases on Nintendo always has great legs but not much of a launch compare to its lifetime sells.
The reason the Ps3 & 360 could take off after 4 years was because people finally had a HD TV, to truely enjoy the feature (a lot of consumers perspective), but the PS4 & ONE are offering mostly the samething for gaming. That's like the Wii U only doing more WiiMote gaming from the Wii, it's bad marketing and it won't hold up after launch is over.
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