Fail what? If they ship 3m that'd be a good outcome for Nintendo at this point, and not really a fail.

If it fails to hit 10m/12m target? It will, no if's about it.

I was thinking about remakes, like Ocarina of Time. I don't Know whether F-Zero from SNES was a remake. The point is that you have games created from scratch (newly created games) that are: current gen original titles, retro original titles and retro copying past games (remakes). It's funny how you differentiate the last 2. One, just by being original, is a current gen game, in your opinion. The other, just by imitating a previous game, isn't. That, my friend, is blatant silliness.

That seems to be retro. If you think it isn't, then make a pool: "Is this game retro? Yes/No" and see the results.

As for my opinion, if that game, besides dated graphics, doesn't present a gameplay enough sophisticated to be clearly differentiated from the shoot-em-ups from previous generations and/or content significantly bigger and deeper...then it's retro.

Then tell me the deepest Nintendo game you've ever played. But don't tell me it's deep because it has a touching story or an amazing graphic art. That's subjective and thus speculative. Tell me about a Nintendo game that is very deep because of a measurable factor that I can't ignore or understand in a different way (objective and thus non-speculative).

First, you told me just 1 example. I'm still waiting for the other 9. Second, if you don't remember I tell you: Wii is known (and defined) by it's most emblematic games, including Wii series, Mario & family, dance and fitness games and motion 3rd party games. All together, they represent more than a half of the Wii's software totals...and all of them are retro / mini-games (they all lack of 1 or more of these: high quality graphics, sophisticated gameplay, deep content). FIFA 13 has come to Wii, that's true. But, in addition to not being representative on the platform, its graphics on the Wii aren't 7th gen for sure. And I wouldn't bet its gameplay and content are precisely the same as in PS3 or X360. Wii can't be considered 7th gen if only a few of its games have (or might have) only some 7th gen aspects. That's too little.

Yes you've found more than 10 games. But there's a tiny little problem: "realistic graphics" is not 1 of the 9 specifications I had listed. Maybe you would like to refer to photo-realistic environments but that's something quite different. A photo-realistic environment is an area copied from reality, like the city of London in The Getaway or St Petersburg in Project Gotham. That's photo-realism, that demands hard work, that's not Nintendo style.

It's not about how customizable they are, it's about whether there are any Nintendo games with fully customizable levels in which you can create a level from scratch like Nintendo did to create the ones presented in the game (using sophisticated tools for that matter). A game that gives power to the players (the same that the producer has). I tell you an example: TrackMania United. You have access to an editor mode where you can create any track you want (even the tracks from the game producer were made on that editor)...that made the game to have hundreds of thousands of tracks (unlimited content). That's fully editable levels, that demands hard work, that's not Nintendo style.

How you don't know that?? It's about games that have gamplay that simulates reality. For example, a racing game in which cars behave like they behave in real life. Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmireIwW2J0. That's simulating gameplay, that demands hard work, that's not Nintendo style.

True. But it does exist when the game is huge...which is not the case of any Nintendo game. Games like Test Drive, Just Cause and Fuel have much more than 300km2. Some might have 5 times more, others 10, others 20, etc. But Nintendo hasn't 1 single title with the easily reachable 300km2 mark. Why would that be if the company has so much money to invest in games?...hum, tough question...maybe because that demands hard work and that's not Nintendo style.

I never said MMO. I said online matches with more than 100 players. Games like TrackMania (250 players) and MAG (256 players) allow that. Next-gen games like The Crew will even raise the expectations to unlimited players at the same time. Destiny will also do something interesting. None of these games is actually MMO...and none of these games is from Nintendo either. How could? Nintendo has never invested on good online, that's not their style...because it demands hard work.

Gameplay with at least 100 variants, content expandable with features created by gamers, massive motion capture movements of actors and story performed with character replicated from reality are things you won't find on Nintendo games either. Why? That's another tough question...

Final-Fan said: 2b.  "Doesn't" is actually correct grammar, thank you very much.  As for the changes you mention, I'm afraid I haven't done the research   I will say about your later comment that Wii Sports is not intended to be the epitome of sports games on the Wii.

It's the epitome of the sales (results --> what Wii actually is) and the protagonist of the console since it was the most bundled game with the system (intentions --> what Wii was sought to be). Wii Sports sales weren't an accident, they are the result of the Nintendo's core strategy. And, at the same time, Wii Sports is evolution of nothing. Not considering motion, the game is a regression from what Nintendo has done in Game Cube at every aspect.

How you do know I don't like them? I like retro games. Yet, I'm still able to understand that: retro --> games from the past --> regression --> no evolution. There are tastes and there are facts. I'm not discussing tastes here. You can't even imagine the games I like the most.

I know the overall result I get is an estimate based on rough calcs. But at least that's a number. I don't need to get the most precise number. Just one precise enough to tell me the order of magnitude. And PS3's power is definitely from a different order of magnitude than Wii's. I challenge you to say it's not.

Like the fun you have in Mario Galaxy is a direct result of Sonic Adventure 2 showing Nintendo how to do it.

Zod95 said:

"Like the fun you have in Mario Galaxy is a direct result of Sonic Adventure 2 showing Nintendo how to do it"

This is a joke right?

Look, you have about one month for the Wii-U to hit 9 million units sold. If that doesn't happen, everything you say from this point forward will be without credibility. So if you know some dictators or really famous people, you better call them up and tell them to bail you out by buying some consoles ASAP.

Nintendo has up to March's end to sell 9 million WiiU's^

Hes talking about John Lucas prediction for 12 by the end of the year

You mean his hyperbole?

I mean what he has stated multiple times in this thread

His hyperbole he uses to facilitate the message of his idea?

Why do u keep questioning me? All I did was explain what prayformojo meant