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Forums - Gaming - Why are JRPG's still being built the way they are? ( long read)

Xxain on 06 August 2013
Fusioncode said:
You're playing the wrong JRPGs. Check out some of the Shin Megami Tensei games if you want to see JRPGs done right.


Explain how the series approaches above problem's.



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Fusioncode on 06 August 2013
Xxain said:
Fusioncode said:
You're playing the wrong JRPGs. Check out some of the Shin Megami Tensei games if you want to see JRPGs done right.


Explain how the series approaches above problem's.


Play the games. There's a sense of adventure in every SMT game that I've experienced. As for the second problem, wait why is that a problem? Do you need to be able to jump on boxes in order to immerse yourself in an RPG? As long as I can interact with interesting characters and affect their fates(Persona 3 & 4) then that's all the interaction I need. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Xxain on 06 August 2013
Fusioncode said:
Xxain said:
Fusioncode said:
You're playing the wrong JRPGs. Check out some of the Shin Megami Tensei games if you want to see JRPGs done right.


Explain how the series approaches above problem's.


Play the games. There's a sense of adventure in every SMT game that I've experienced. As for the second problem, wait why is that a problem? Do you need to be able to jump on boxes in order to immerse yourself in an RPG? As long as I can interact with interesting characters and affect their fates(Persona 3 & 4) then that's all the interaction I need. 


I am talking about modern console JRPG's dude.



RenCutypoison on 06 August 2013

Or, maybe JRPG should not have all these expensive features, so they can more time on story telling, character developpement and awesome gameplay.

Just my toughts.

And more expensive JRPGs don't bring in more money. Disgaea sells half as much as Tales of. And tales of half as much as a spinoff Final fantasy. For each scale, you multiply budget by almost 4. And disgaea has the most content.



Xxain on 06 August 2013
RenCutypoison said:
Or, maybe JRPG should not have all these expensive features, so they can more time on story telling, character developpement and awesome gameplay.

Just my toughts.

And more expensive JRPGs don't bring in more money. Disgaea sells half as much as Tales of. And tales of half as much as a spinoff Final fantasy. For each scale, you multiply budget by almost 4. And disgaea has the most content.


1. Aren't JRPG's doing that already? Why do you think FF13 ended up the way it did. It focused on Story and characters to the dilution of other features. How'd that turn out? 2. Why are you bringing Nippon Ichi into this? This is not directed at small time developers but at developers who actually have money and prestige to turn the JRPG market around.



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Fayceless on 06 August 2013
Xxain said:
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:

All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.


I take issue with generalizations such as this.  Why should every single game be the game you want?   What about games I want?  I don't want every game I play to be the same game with a different story.  Not every game needs all those things you listed.  These aren't thing that should be thrown into every game just because "it's cool." They should only be used when it serves an essential function to gameplay and/or story.  Otherwise it's a waste of time and rescources that could further other elements of the game.


How did you come to the conclusion that adopting features that give more life to the environment's will up end with the same game but a different story? If Tales of something came out, then Persons 5 came out and both had a weather, day and night, interactive environment's how that make them the same? On the flip side, why aren't they the same now?

 

It was a bit of an overstatement.


The real question is, why should every game have the elements you listed?  What's the point?  Does it really add anything to the game?  Is it a wise use of rescources to add them?  This question of course must be asked independently for every game that's made.  I don't see why every game needs day/night or weather or interactive environments.  It's just not essential to many games, so why be wasteful in the game development process to add them in?  Some of those would be more irritating than immersive if they were present in every single RPG.

 

EDIT: and ironically, your latest post echoes my sentiments about every game being the same.


There is a reason why Skyrim is held to a high degree by it's player's and other developers. The first thing they will tell you is how immersive and satisfying it is to take part in that world. It's the biggest selling point. Why must there be any reason other than just increasing the appeal of the world? Why must it have some sort of significance? FF12 had weather effects and they serve no purpose but to increase availability of certain monsters..that's it. There was no complaing. What would JRPG's lose by taking time to make their game worlds more interesting? They dont have great stories anymore, standard anime characters, they certainly aren't graphic kings even in SE's case. The only thing JRPG's continue do well now is great battle system and art direction.


I loooove me some Skyrim.  And I'm certainly not against JRPGs being better, or including elements found in WRPGs.  And of course, nobody's going to complain about things in the game, I'm talking from a development perspective: resources are limited, and every development team must choose how and where to spend those rescources: time, money, manpower, creative talent, etc.  So those are the questions that must be asked, early on in the process: what does this game need?  Skyrim needs weather, open worlds, time flow, because it's such a major part of the experience.  In many games a day/night cycle would be inconsequential, so why waste time on that, rather than, say an optional dungeon or more character customization?  There's always a give and take, and a team must choose their priorities in order to make a profitable game.  It's a very complex process, which is why I take issues with statements like "every game needs to incorporate x features."



Xxain on 06 August 2013
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:

All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.


I take issue with generalizations such as this.  Why should every single game be the game you want?   What about games I want?  I don't want every game I play to be the same game with a different story.  Not every game needs all those things you listed.  These aren't thing that should be thrown into every game just because "it's cool." They should only be used when it serves an essential function to gameplay and/or story.  Otherwise it's a waste of time and rescources that could further other elements of the game.


How did you come to the conclusion that adopting features that give more life to the environment's will up end with the same game but a different story? If Tales of something came out, then Persons 5 came out and both had a weather, day and night, interactive environment's how that make them the same? On the flip side, why aren't they the same now?

 

It was a bit of an overstatement.


The real question is, why should every game have the elements you listed?  What's the point?  Does it really add anything to the game?  Is it a wise use of rescources to add them?  This question of course must be asked independently for every game that's made.  I don't see why every game needs day/night or weather or interactive environments.  It's just not essential to many games, so why be wasteful in the game development process to add them in?  Some of those would be more irritating than immersive if they were present in every single RPG.

 

EDIT: and ironically, your latest post echoes my sentiments about every game being the same.


There is a reason why Skyrim is held to a high degree by it's player's and other developers. The first thing they will tell you is how immersive and satisfying it is to take part in that world. It's the biggest selling point. Why must there be any reason other than just increasing the appeal of the world? Why must it have some sort of significance? FF12 had weather effects and they serve no purpose but to increase availability of certain monsters..that's it. There was no complaing. What would JRPG's lose by taking time to make their game worlds more interesting? They dont have great stories anymore, standard anime characters, they certainly aren't graphic kings even in SE's case. The only thing JRPG's continue do well now is great battle system and art direction.


I loooove me some Skyrim.  And I'm certainly not against JRPGs being better, or including elements found in WRPGs.  And of course, nobody's going to complain about things in the game, I'm talking from a development perspective: resources are limited, and every development team must choose how and where to spend those rescources: time, money, manpower, creative talent, etc.  So those are the questions that must be asked, early on in the process: what does this game need?  Skyrim needs weather, open worlds, time flow, because it's such a major part of the experience.  In many games a day/night cycle would be inconsequential, so why waste time on that, rather than, say an optional dungeon or more character customization?  There's always a give and take, and a team must choose their priorities in order to make a profitable game.  It's a very complex process, which is why I take issues with statements like "every game needs to incorporate x features."


I guess Skyrim was the magic word because your tone definitely changed in this post. Creating a more appealing word is not a WRPG thing. They just happen to be the only people doing it.



RenCutypoison on 06 August 2013
Xxain said:
RenCutypoison said:
Or, maybe JRPG should not have all these expensive features, so they can more time on story telling, character developpement and awesome gameplay.

Just my toughts.

And more expensive JRPGs don't bring in more money. Disgaea sells half as much as Tales of. And tales of half as much as a spinoff Final fantasy. For each scale, you multiply budget by almost 4. And disgaea has the most content.


1. Aren't JRPG's doing that already? Why do you think FF13 ended up the way it did. It focused on Story and characters to the dilution of other features. How'd that turn out? 2. Why are you bringing Nippon Ichi into this? This is not directed at small time developers but at developers who actually have money and prestige to turn the JRPG market around.


In one generation, Nippon ichi went from having their games edited by Atlus to editing Atlus's games oversea.

Don't underestimate them, remember ubisoft.

JRPGs do that, yeah. And I like FXIII. And a lot of JRPGs that are out right now. 

They do not sell well, but do you actually like some JRPGs right now ?



Fayceless on 06 August 2013
Xxain said:


I guess Skyrim was the magic word because your tone definitely changed in this post. Creating a more appealing word is not a WRPG thing. They just happen to be the only people doing it.


Sometimes I come off as combative when I don't mean to.  I apologize.



Fusioncode on 06 August 2013
Xxain said:
Fusioncode said:
Xxain said:
Fusioncode said:
You're playing the wrong JRPGs. Check out some of the Shin Megami Tensei games if you want to see JRPGs done right.


Explain how the series approaches above problem's.


Play the games. There's a sense of adventure in every SMT game that I've experienced. As for the second problem, wait why is that a problem? Do you need to be able to jump on boxes in order to immerse yourself in an RPG? As long as I can interact with interesting characters and affect their fates(Persona 3 & 4) then that's all the interaction I need. 


I am talking about modern console JRPG's dude.

Oh, well done the bext example I have is Ni No Kuni. It doesn't do much for your second problem though.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!