That's only because the US has idiotic workers' rights laws.

I cannot fathom the American attitude to unions. Is it a vast overreaction to the automobile thing? is $.10 extra on a burger so absolutely unthinkable? Can you not empathise with someone in that position?

spurgeonryan said:
Soleron. If mcdonalds were to raise their wages to 15, then everyone else will have to as well. Fuck it. I would go work there, get fat, be lazy and cook pre cooked food. Americans are not stupid. It is a minimum wage job. That is why there is a minimum wage. For jobs like this where you do nothing but turn a microwave on.

1. $15 is a negotiating position, not what they expect to get. It'll be the Fox News scare headline, watch this space.

2. Minimum wage should be enough to barely live on @ 40 hours a week without state support. If that's $10, then yes everyone should get $10. What is your problem with that?

And when I say get fat and be lazy I mean you are usuaually eating your lunch there. And the laxy part is your life choices. Come back to haunt you. Anyone can go to college. Either technical or trade or whatever suits your needs. They decided not to. Ever hear of the pell grant?

I'd really like you to speak with a few long-term workers there. I think you'd find many are unable to afford the break in income or debt to go to college, and/or are caring for kids/disabled people. Even if that's only a small fraction of them, your argument is hollow. They deserve a living wage and you deserve not to subsidise them via taxes.

spurgeonryan said:
How about we tip them. If they can give us good enough service they get 15 percent. If not, they get 10 percent.

I don't even want to go into all the reasons why tipping is stupid.

I just cannot see giving them this. If the state. Thinks they need more, then raise it across the board with minimum wage.

Woah. You think the American government is willing and able to solve a societal problem? Minimum wage is one of those things that the Republicans would shoot down ideologically regardless of if it'd be good or not. And the Democrats are too weak to push such a thing all the way through (also they don't care at all)

It's a negotiating position. They'll accept $10 most likely.

I think this is a great thing. The state should not have to subsidise fast food restaurants with income support.

That's only because the US has idiotic workers' rights laws.

I cannot fathom the American attitude to unions. Is it a vast overreaction to the automobile thing? is $.10 extra on a burger so absolutely unthinkable? Can you not empathise with someone in that position?

Kudos for mentioning Mises and Hayek. That was a pleasant surprise.

@general;

If you raise the minimum wage in order to provide a "living wage" for people, then you will also have to ensure that inflation does not take place. Otherwise, all raising the minimum wage will do will be to drive up the cost of everything else. Other people will get a pay increase, because they don't want to work for minimum wage; many of these people got a degree or some training and have knowledge in their field that the average person does not (thus, there is more demand for these people, because there is a lower supply of qualified workers). The effect of that, of course, is to drive up prices across the board... putting you back to square one, where you find yourself in need of raising the minimum wage again.

The problem with preventing inflation is that you'll basically have to freeze wages and prices for everyone. After raising the minimum wage, of course. But this harms everyone too, because businesses will get less profit. That might sound good at first, but less profit for a business means less room to expand, less motivation to expand with lower returns, fewer jobs being created, and an overall loss of wealth by everyone in the economy.

Increasing the minimum wage sounds nice, but it's really just kicking the can down the road. I can sympathize with low wage earners, as I am one myself (making less than the apparent average of $9.02/hr for fast food cooks). But I understand that my job is something that could be done by literally anyone with hands, feet, and a semi functional brain. It's a temporary job while I seek to improve my skills that will hopefully lead to a better job down the road.