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Forums - Sony Discussion - PlayStation 4 gives up to 5.5GB of RAM to game developers

landguy1 on 26 July 2013
Darth Tigris said:
So the console parity continues the closer we get to launch. Nothing new.


I agree with you, this is just one of the incremental information releases that will happen from both sides that will eventually make them almost identical in overall performance at release.  Too bad M$ laid such an egg in their launch messaging, it allowed Sony to induce instant loyalty for almost no real reason.  But, gotta hand it to Sony for taking advantage of them.



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drkohler on 26 July 2013
walsufnir said:
drkohler said:
So much nonsense being written here and in other forums. The situation is like this:
On a PS4 developer unit, you have 8G of ram divided into (numbers heavily rounded):
1G os
1.5G debug software
1G debug scratchpad
4.5G game (or 5.5G if using the debug scratchpad)
On a PS4 end user unit, you have:
1G os
5.5G game
1.5G unclear space (now os scratchpad space?) as there very likely isn't any debug software loaded
So on a PS4 end user unit, the ram limit is >= 5.5G for the game

Usually I appreciate your posts but this one... Unless you can prove it, then devkits usually are equipped with more ram than the retail console. That's where the 1.5g debug seems to be wrong. But either way I think 5.5g is still enough for nowadays games.

There is nothing to prove here. We know that (at some point into the timeline) PS4 development units had 8G of ram. This now leads to exactly the problem I mentioned in my post: As developers are constrained by debug space (which is quite large), they do not know now what happens to the debug space in the end user units when the debug software/scratchpads are gone.

This is the _very reason_ debug units always have more ram than end user units. It insures that the debug software/scratchpad area does not cut into end user space, since the whole debug area would be located in a space outside end user range. As long as the target PS4 memory size was 4G of ram, this lead to no problems at all. When Sony upped the memory to 8G, they instantly found themselves in the "debug space mess", as their 8G developer units instantly had insufficient memory and left developers scratching their collective heads.

If there ever is/is going to be a (final) PS4 developer unit with 12-16G of ram, we could conclude the end user consoles will have anywhere from 6-7G of ram for the game (the PS4 os is likely much smaller than the three os for the XBox One, 1G might be a reasonable guess). If the develoment units stay at 8G, all bets are open. A clever developer could still be able to use the (8G-os space) memory range (would also depend on the type of game. I'm an old-time Anno 1602-1404 gamer and this is very type of game that could use all memory).

Once again, the PS4 os is NOT 2.5-3.5G in size, it is the debug area problem.



walsufnir on 26 July 2013
the2real4mafol said:
Why does the OS need 3gb of RAM?


It is most probably the os with running apps on it.



DD_Bwest on 26 July 2013
BasilZero said:
DD_Bwest said:
man how do people keep up with the GAF thread, it updates faster then i read..

so does this mean OS is 1.5, 1.0 reserved for future growth and 5.5 for games? thats not that bad all things considered

Thread is awesome


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=73032256&postcount=3269


yup im reading it, but everytime i get to the bottom of the page, there are 3-4 new pages to read lol  It is great for laughs.  I do wonder how legit some of these insiders are.  Very skeptical of anyone on the internet



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

walsufnir on 26 July 2013
drkohler said:
walsufnir said:
drkohler said:
So much nonsense being written here and in other forums. The situation is like this:
On a PS4 developer unit, you have 8G of ram divided into (numbers heavily rounded):
1G os
1.5G debug software
1G debug scratchpad
4.5G game (or 5.5G if using the debug scratchpad)
On a PS4 end user unit, you have:
1G os
5.5G game
1.5G unclear space (now os scratchpad space?) as there very likely isn't any debug software loaded
So on a PS4 end user unit, the ram limit is >= 5.5G for the game

Usually I appreciate your posts but this one... Unless you can prove it, then devkits usually are equipped with more ram than the retail console. That's where the 1.5g debug seems to be wrong. But either way I think 5.5g is still enough for nowadays games.

There is nothing to prove here. We know that (at some point into the timeline) PS4 development units had 8G of ram. This now leads to exactly the problem I mentioned in my post: As developers are constrained by debug space (which is quite large), they do not know now what happens to the debug space in the end user units when the debug software/scratchpads are gone.

This is the _very reason_ debug units always have more ram than end user units. It insures that the debug software/scratchpad area does not cut into end user space, since the whole debug area would be located in a space outside end user range. As long as the target PS4 memory size was 4G of ram, this lead to no problems at all. When Sony upped the memory to 8G, they instantly found themselves in the "debug space mess", as their 8G developer units instantly had insufficient memory and left developers scratching their collective heads.

If there ever is/is going to be a (final) PS4 developer unit with 12-16G of ram, we could conclude the end user consoles will have anywhere from 6-7G of ram for the game (the PS4 os is likely much smaller than the three os for the XBox One, 1G might be a reasonable guess). If the develoment units stay at 8G, all bets are open. A clever developer could still be able to use the (8G-os space) memory range (would also depend on the type of game. I'm an old-time Anno 1602-1404 gamer and this is very type of game that could use all memory).

Once again, the PS4 os is NOT 2.5-3.5G in size, it is the debug area problem.

 

So basically your point stands on that dev-kits even now run with 8 gb ram. We don't know this yet. I can follow your points, of course, but it is only true if your assumptions you are basing this on are right.



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landguy1 on 26 July 2013
riderz13371 said:
landguy1 said:
riderz13371 said:
4.5 GB GDDR5 of ram for games? Honestly even this is too much considering it's GDDR5 and not DDR3. I don't think devs (specifically multi platform devs) would have taken advantage of the so called "7 GB ram for games" so it would have just been a waste. Better to put some more on the OS to make it super quick. 3.5 GB of GDDR5 for the OS this thing is gonna be lightning speed lol!

Your initial response is funny, seeing as you blatently talk BS about how the PS4 was so much better than the XBone in your many posts in other threads.  But when it is reported that the PS4 has less available ram than the XBone, it is now not needed and will make the system even faster?  I'll end up with both systems, but the sheer fanboy responses to this information is quite humorous.  I am sure over time, like i have said in other threads, that Sony will announce or put more focus on their abilty to do almost everything that M$ has been pushing about the XBone.  Sony went after headlines and internet buzz by talking up only certain aspects of their machine.  The only difference that we will end up seeing is that M$ is forcing Kinect and Sony went for the lower price point by dropping the PSeye.  Now Sony can't talk up voice controls and motion gaming as standard features.  For the core gamers, Sony went after the "games are what matters", and it worked perfectly.

But it is...Also I don't recall ever explicitly saying PS4 is much more powerful/better than the Xbox One. Maybe I did, can you give me some examples?

So, your take away is "prove it"?  That's another funny element to many of the threads and responses.  So, for me to have an opinion or about a topic or another person's posts, i have to do the research for them?  Not a chance.  This isn't a court of law.

I have to admit, I used your comment to demonstrate my point of blind fanboy remarks.  It was based on my general impression of how you have commented in previous threads and your animation(which makes it harder to forget that it was you).  I can't say that I couldn't be wrong either.



riderz13371 on 26 July 2013
landguy1 said:
riderz13371 said:
landguy1 said:
riderz13371 said:
4.5 GB GDDR5 of ram for games? Honestly even this is too much considering it's GDDR5 and not DDR3. I don't think devs (specifically multi platform devs) would have taken advantage of the so called "7 GB ram for games" so it would have just been a waste. Better to put some more on the OS to make it super quick. 3.5 GB of GDDR5 for the OS this thing is gonna be lightning speed lol!

Your initial response is funny, seeing as you blatently talk BS about how the PS4 was so much better than the XBone in your many posts in other threads.  But when it is reported that the PS4 has less available ram than the XBone, it is now not needed and will make the system even faster?  I'll end up with both systems, but the sheer fanboy responses to this information is quite humorous.  I am sure over time, like i have said in other threads, that Sony will announce or put more focus on their abilty to do almost everything that M$ has been pushing about the XBone.  Sony went after headlines and internet buzz by talking up only certain aspects of their machine.  The only difference that we will end up seeing is that M$ is forcing Kinect and Sony went for the lower price point by dropping the PSeye.  Now Sony can't talk up voice controls and motion gaming as standard features.  For the core gamers, Sony went after the "games are what matters", and it worked perfectly.

But it is...Also I don't recall ever explicitly saying PS4 is much more powerful/better than the Xbox One. Maybe I did, can you give me some examples?

So, your take away is "prove it"?  That's another funny element to many of the threads and responses.  So, for me to have an opinion or about a topic or another person's posts, i have to do the research for them?  Not a chance.  This isn't a court of law.

I have to admit, I used your comment to demonstrate my point of blind fanboy remarks.  It was based on my general impression of how you have commented in previous threads and your animation(which makes it harder to forget that it was you).  I can't say that I couldn't be wrong either.

Yes my take away is prove it because you're talking out of your ass. You claim that I've constantly posted about how the PS4 is so much more superior to the Xbox one and yet when I ask you to provide some evidence supporting this you have none. So yeah, all I took away was prove it because right now all I see in your post is complete and utter bullshit.

Good day buddy.



Nsanity on 26 July 2013



Imaginedvl on 26 July 2013

lol... just lol



NobleTeam360 on 26 July 2013

I don't even get why you all care about how much RAM is usable.