How do you view Snowden? | |||
| Hero | 163 | 73.76% | |
| Coward | 12 | 5.43% | |
| A threat to national security | 19 | 8.60% | |
| Snitch | 11 | 4.98% | |
| Snowden?? Heck is that?? | 16 | 7.24% | |
| Total: | 221 | ||
| spurgeonryan said: Thought this was a Figure skating thread. Had to look up this snowden. I think he is a criminal. Follow the rules or else. |
:-O
After seeing your last few threads, I am shocked. I just can't believe ...
He is a traitor, terrorist-supporter and a threat to innocent people all over the world and he deserves lifetime in prison.
| Slimebeast said: He is a traitor, terrorist-supporter and a threat to innocent people all over the world and he deserves lifetime in prison. |
How so? Revealing to a country's citizens that their government has secretly been wiretapping them over the past several years is a threat to innocent people?
I don't care what "good" the NSA claims they're doing with this. This is a ridiculous invasion of privacy, and both Republicans and Democrats have been incredibly hypocritical on the matter so far. Snowden was willing to give up his freedom, his job, and his social standing so that he could inform a country's populace that their government is recording all of their conversations. The man's a hero.
MTZehvor said:
How so? Revealing to a country's citizens that their government has secretly been wiretapping them over the past several years is a threat to innocent people? I don't care what "good" the NSA claims they're doing with this. This is a ridiculous invasion of privacy, and both Republicans and Democrats have been incredibly hypocritical on the matter so far. Snowden was willing to give up his freedom, his job, and his social standing so that he could inform a country's populace that their government is recording all of their conversations. The man's a hero. |
Invasion of privacy to combat crime. I support that.
To me violent crime is far worse than my loss of privacy in front of a bunch of anonymous CIA or NSA agents.
And by its very nature surveillance has to be as secret as possible. If it was totally open and public then it wouldn't be able to combat crime as effectively. This isn't anything new. All nations have always had secret agencies to fight the bad guys.
This is what happens when you rush out bills such as the Patriot Act after a tragedy. Barely anyone knows what it fully covers or allows due to most not reading it and they all sign it in the name of national defense. One must not be a true patriot if they didn't vote for the Patriot Act right?
The people needed to know the extent of what was happening.
The problem with him not doing it anonymously is that, when you're working a position with a clearance, they usually know what information you did or did not access. By the very nature of what was leaked they could likely easily trace it back to him, unless he was also getting information that he was not supposed to be authorized for.
Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.
| 20happyballs said: .. Here's an argument from someone who would call him a "Traitor". If you're gonna reply, make sure you read the whole post. First of all, it is undeniable that what the Government is doing is a violation of our rights. There is no argument here. The government deserves the backlash they are receiving. The people have the right to be angry, and the government really has no say in the matter. Everyone worried that their privacy is being violated. But you have to remember that because of the secrecy of the program and because the program covers millions and millions of people, most of us will not be affected on a personal level. You have nothing to fear unless you are a terrorist. The government would not use the evidence they can obtain from these programs on just any matter of criminal offense. They would not risk being exposed. And if anyone is afraid of their private matters being exposed, or a government official knowing what you do (whether it be cheating, child pornography, and other embarrassing things), it's not like the government officials are even gonna care. They are technically monitoring millions of people. You are just a name and nothing else. They don't care what you do, as long as it does not involve spying, terrorism, or whatever acts they deem a matter of national security. Sometimes, and I know many of you won't agree with this, it's better that the public not be informed of everything. The programs that the government is hiding from us is only meant to protect us. If Snowden did not reveal the government's secrets, us non-terrorist U.S. citizens could only be affected positively. It is expected that the public will get angry. Humans are selfish by nature and they don't like to consider the big picture. But don't you wish that the government was able to prevent the recent Boston Bombings or even 9/11? Sure, the government was not able to prevent these tragic events, but imagine if they did. Would you still be angry at the government if they saved your close family member because of these programs? To be honest, Snowden's action did not accomplish anything. Maybe the government will say that they will stop these programs, but I'm sure that they are still going to continue doing what they are trying to do to protect us. But now it is going to be harder for them because they can't get caught by the public again. And why reveal yourself? I'm sure that he could have done it anonymously.
|
i have to disagree with bold. right now you have nothing to fear unless you are a terrorist. ..but these are dangerous tools. the nazi's took control of germany and changed it from a respectable country to a murderous dictatorship in a matter of years. maybe you trust bush and/or obama but i do not want these kinds of tools in the wrong hands and that means having watchdogs and whistle blowers. the checks and balances is what makes america work and when you remove them with secret programs you open the door for exploitation.
unfortunately, i have to sort of agree with underlined. nothing positive is likely to come from this. i'm glad i'm aware but it doesn't seem like it will cause change. i have lost all respect for obama however. such a fucking disappointment...
Slimebeast said:
Invasion of privacy to combat crime. I support that. To me violent crime is far worse than my loss of privacy in front of a bunch of anonymous CIA or NSA agents. And by its very nature surveillance has to be as secret as possible. If it was totally open and public then it wouldn't be able to combat crime as effectively. This isn't anything new. All nations have always had secret agencies to fight the bad guys. |
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin
If there was some mystical barrier out there that prevented them from abusing this power, perhaps I would be less opposed. Unfortunately, that power does not exist. This ability has the potential to be misused and abused in so many ways that it'd be impossible to count. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Leave this ability to the whims of whoever comes into power, and it will eventually be abused (if it hasn't been already).
| spurgeonryan said: Thought this was a Figure skating thread. Had to look up this snowden. I think he is a criminal. Follow the rules or else. |
But the governement doesn't have to?
If they're gonna lock snowden up for "beeing a spy" then trow obama in jail as well.
So far 46 see him positively, 18 negatively and 8 don't even know who he is. Keep it up guys! I'll respond later. Busy at work now. Good stuff for discussion, especially those who see him negatively (and the inevitable response to those views) 
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