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Forums - Microsoft - The best explanation (so far) of the "cloud" advantage for Xbox One

superchunk on 19 June 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Well we don't have to argue about this anymore. It doesn't seem like "cloud" is going to be a buzzword MS will be using to sell the Xbone anymore.

And it just shows that this whole cloud talk was almost complete bullshit. ( i say almost because there are advantages, just not the way they were explaining it)

Agreed.

Close it down fellas!



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disolitude on 19 June 2013
Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Where are you getting this from? Do you have a source for that? And theres multiple flavours of cloud computing. What exactly are you talking about. You just seem to mention one or two words about cloud but nothing specific. Are you making things up?

Ballmer announced at the last earnings event that Azure is number 1.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/cloud-computing/microsoft-azure-overtakes-amazons-cloud-in-performance-test-213344

Number 1 in what sense?

And that article did a very specific test of read, write and delete for storage services. My problem with your comments is that you are making broad and baseless statements. Saying something like MS Azure has the lowest latency is silly. There are multiple plans/service types/implementations related to cloud computing...i dont see how any company can claim to have the lowest latency for cloud computing. And no where in that article do they mention latency...Did Balmer say anything about latency either?

I am not sure what you're after here. No Ballmer didn't say they have lowest latency. He said that Azure is number 1 in cloud services.

Here is another article about this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/ma-nasunicloudstorage-idUSnPnNE62116+160+PRN20130219

Bottom is the paragraph that answers everything you're asking proof of. Speed, latency, scalability. There is not much else you can benchmark cloud computing on at the moment. 

For the 2013 CSP Performance Test, Nasuni measured performance across three categories: * Write/Read/Delete Speed: This test measures the raw ability of each CSP to handle thousands of writes, reads and deletes (W/R/D) with files of varying sizes and levels of concurrency. * Availability: This test measures each CSP's response time to a single W/R/D process at 60-second intervals over a 30-day period. * Scalability: This test measures each CSP's performance consistency (or lack thereof) as the number of objects under management increases into the hundreds of millions.
* Speed: Azure was 56 percent faster than the No. 2 Amazon S3 in write speed, and 39 percent faster at reading files than the No. 2 HP Cloud Object Storage in read speed. * Availability: Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time. * Scalability: Amazon S3 varied only 0.6 percent from its average the scaling tests, with Microsoft Windows Azure varying 1.9 percent (both very acceptable levels of variance). The two OpenStack-based clouds - HP and Rackspace - showed significant variance of 23.5 percent and 26.1 percent, respectively, with performance becoming more and more unpredictable as object counts increased.

Machiavellian on 19 June 2013
disolitude said:
superchunk said:
cablebox said:
"Microsoft and Google are the only two ...that have "the cloud""
really?
I think that's not true

In the manner they are referring, it is definitely true.

With Google I have unlimited storage of all docs/images/videos/etc with nearly instant access on just about any device that is web-enabled including competitors like Apple/MS products.

MS is following that same approach and has greatly expanded its cloud to attempt to match Google's.

 

If MS didn't restrict what I could do with my physical game media, I'd be all over a Xbone.

Microsoft is vastly larger than Google in the cloud in terms of marketshare and presence. Only Amazon WS is able to compete with Azure and that is because they are significanly cheaper. In terms of latency Microsoft tends to beat everyone else...

I probably woud include MS, Google and Amazon as the big 3 in cloud computing.  As you mentioned only Amazon is there in market share with MS azure but the problem with Amazon is that they have had some major outages where their systems have been down for a lenth of time.  Azure policy is 100% uptime which puts them at a level even Amazon isn't at yet.



Shinobi-san on 19 June 2013
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Number 1 in what sense?

And that article did a very specific test of read, write and delete for storage services. My problem with your comments is that you are making broad and baseless statements. Saying something like MS Azure has the lowest latency is silly. There are multiple plans/service types/implementations related to cloud computing...i dont see how any company can claim to have the lowest latency for cloud computing. And no where in that article do they mention latency...Did Balmer say anything about latency either?

I am not sure what you're after here. No Ballmer didn't say they have lowest latency. He said that Azure is number 1 in cloud services.

Here is another article about this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/ma-nasunicloudstorage-idUSnPnNE62116+160+PRN20130219

Bottom is the paragraph that answers everything you're asking proof of. Speed, latency, scalability. There is not much else you can benchmark cloud computing on at the moment. 

For the 2013 CSP Performance Test, Nasuni measured performance across three categories: * Write/Read/Delete Speed: This test measures the raw ability of each CSP to handle thousands of writes, reads and deletes (W/R/D) with files of varying sizes and levels of concurrency. * Availability: This test measures each CSP's response time to a single W/R/D process at 60-second intervals over a 30-day period. * Scalability: This test measures each CSP's performance consistency (or lack thereof) as the number of objects under management increases into the hundreds of millions.
* Speed: Azure was 56 percent faster than the No. 2 Amazon S3 in write speed, and 39 percent faster at reading files than the No. 2 HP Cloud Object Storage in read speed. * Availability: Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time. * Scalability: Amazon S3 varied only 0.6 percent from its average the scaling tests, with Microsoft Windows Azure varying 1.9 percent (both very acceptable levels of variance). The two OpenStack-based clouds - HP and Rackspace - showed significant variance of 23.5 percent and 26.1 percent, respectively, with performance becoming more and more unpredictable as object counts increased.

Just a question before i get into this. Do you have any experience with cloud computing solutions? Actually using/developing on cloud services at enterprise level?
Edit: Also the reason why i asked about latency was because you added that in. Yet no1 was talking about latency not Ballmer and not the article. Perhaps you were just using the word incorrectly. And im pretty sure the reason why you added in that bit about latency was to make as if MS have some super low latency cloud solution that will allow for all the crap they were talking about using cloud to enhance games which is what this thread is about.



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disolitude on 19 June 2013
Machiavellian said:
disolitude said:
superchunk said:
cablebox said:
"Microsoft and Google are the only two ...that have "the cloud""
really?
I think that's not true

In the manner they are referring, it is definitely true.

With Google I have unlimited storage of all docs/images/videos/etc with nearly instant access on just about any device that is web-enabled including competitors like Apple/MS products.

MS is following that same approach and has greatly expanded its cloud to attempt to match Google's.

 

If MS didn't restrict what I could do with my physical game media, I'd be all over a Xbone.

Microsoft is vastly larger than Google in the cloud in terms of marketshare and presence. Only Amazon WS is able to compete with Azure and that is because they are significanly cheaper. In terms of latency Microsoft tends to beat everyone else...

I probably woud include MS, Google and Amazon as the big 3 in cloud computing.  As you mentioned only Amazon is there in market share with MS azure but the problem with Amazon is that they have had some major outages where their systems have been down for a lenth of time.  Azure policy is 100% uptime which puts them at a level even Amazon isn't at yet.


My company has been using Amazon S4 for god knows how long...and the only reason we stick with them is cause of cost. Cheaper than Azure.



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Machiavellian on 19 June 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Well we don't have to argue about this anymore. It doesn't seem like "cloud" is going to be a buzzword MS will be using to sell the Xbone anymore.

And it just shows that this whole cloud talk was almost complete bullshit. ( i say almost because there are advantages, just not the way they were explaining it)

To be honest, you might just be in a discussion that is over your head.  Having an opinion on something is one thing, understanding the thing you have an opinion on is something totally different.  The scope of MS Azure and Orleans is way above a lot of people witnin this thread but I do agree that the proof will be in the works we see within the coming years not something you will see day one.  Some of the advantages will be underthe hood where its not immediate like graphics.



Machiavellian on 19 June 2013
Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Number 1 in what sense?

And that article did a very specific test of read, write and delete for storage services. My problem with your comments is that you are making broad and baseless statements. Saying something like MS Azure has the lowest latency is silly. There are multiple plans/service types/implementations related to cloud computing...i dont see how any company can claim to have the lowest latency for cloud computing. And no where in that article do they mention latency...Did Balmer say anything about latency either?

I am not sure what you're after here. No Ballmer didn't say they have lowest latency. He said that Azure is number 1 in cloud services.

Here is another article about this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/ma-nasunicloudstorage-idUSnPnNE62116+160+PRN20130219

Bottom is the paragraph that answers everything you're asking proof of. Speed, latency, scalability. There is not much else you can benchmark cloud computing on at the moment. 

For the 2013 CSP Performance Test, Nasuni measured performance across three categories: * Write/Read/Delete Speed: This test measures the raw ability of each CSP to handle thousands of writes, reads and deletes (W/R/D) with files of varying sizes and levels of concurrency. * Availability: This test measures each CSP's response time to a single W/R/D process at 60-second intervals over a 30-day period. * Scalability: This test measures each CSP's performance consistency (or lack thereof) as the number of objects under management increases into the hundreds of millions.
* Speed: Azure was 56 percent faster than the No. 2 Amazon S3 in write speed, and 39 percent faster at reading files than the No. 2 HP Cloud Object Storage in read speed. * Availability: Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time. * Scalability: Amazon S3 varied only 0.6 percent from its average the scaling tests, with Microsoft Windows Azure varying 1.9 percent (both very acceptable levels of variance). The two OpenStack-based clouds - HP and Rackspace - showed significant variance of 23.5 percent and 26.1 percent, respectively, with performance becoming more and more unpredictable as object counts increased.

Just a question before i get into this. Do you have any experience with cloud computing solutions? Actually using/developing on cloud services at enterprise level?
Edit: Also the reason why i asked about latency was because you added that in. Yet no1 was talking about latency not Ballmer and not the article. Perhaps you were just using the word incorrectly. And im pretty sure the reason why you added in that bit about latency was to make as if MS have some super low latency cloud solution that will allow for all the crap they were talking about using cloud to enhance games which is what this thread is about.

Well I have experience with enterprise cloud based applications because I develop for those within the company I work for.

On the latency issue, why don't you do a search on Azure CDN and how that helps with those issues.  Even so, the ariticle above answer that question anyway.



disolitude on 19 June 2013
Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Number 1 in what sense?

And that article did a very specific test of read, write and delete for storage services. My problem with your comments is that you are making broad and baseless statements. Saying something like MS Azure has the lowest latency is silly. There are multiple plans/service types/implementations related to cloud computing...i dont see how any company can claim to have the lowest latency for cloud computing. And no where in that article do they mention latency...Did Balmer say anything about latency either?

I am not sure what you're after here. No Ballmer didn't say they have lowest latency. He said that Azure is number 1 in cloud services.

Here is another article about this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/ma-nasunicloudstorage-idUSnPnNE62116+160+PRN20130219

Bottom is the paragraph that answers everything you're asking proof of. Speed, latency, scalability. There is not much else you can benchmark cloud computing on at the moment. 

For the 2013 CSP Performance Test, Nasuni measured performance across three categories: * Write/Read/Delete Speed: This test measures the raw ability of each CSP to handle thousands of writes, reads and deletes (W/R/D) with files of varying sizes and levels of concurrency. * Availability: This test measures each CSP's response time to a single W/R/D process at 60-second intervals over a 30-day period. * Scalability: This test measures each CSP's performance consistency (or lack thereof) as the number of objects under management increases into the hundreds of millions.
* Speed: Azure was 56 percent faster than the No. 2 Amazon S3 in write speed, and 39 percent faster at reading files than the No. 2 HP Cloud Object Storage in read speed. * Availability: Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time. * Scalability: Amazon S3 varied only 0.6 percent from its average the scaling tests, with Microsoft Windows Azure varying 1.9 percent (both very acceptable levels of variance). The two OpenStack-based clouds - HP and Rackspace - showed significant variance of 23.5 percent and 26.1 percent, respectively, with performance becoming more and more unpredictable as object counts increased.

Just a question before i get into this. Do you have any experience with cloud computing solutions? Actually using/developing on cloud services at enterprise level?
Edit: Also the reason why i asked about latency was because you added that in. Yet no1 was talking about latency not Ballmer and not the article. Perhaps you were just using the word incorrectly. And im pretty sure the reason why you added in that bit about latency was to make as if MS have some super low latency cloud solution that will allow for all the crap they were talking about using cloud to enhance games which is what this thread is about.

I use Amazon S3 on the daily basis at work. We use it for video hosting and streaming, website hosting, file uploads and transfers and good old user access policy control (DRM) :)



Shinobi-san on 19 June 2013
Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Well we don't have to argue about this anymore. It doesn't seem like "cloud" is going to be a buzzword MS will be using to sell the Xbone anymore.

And it just shows that this whole cloud talk was almost complete bullshit. ( i say almost because there are advantages, just not the way they were explaining it)

To be honest, you might just be in a discussion that is over your head.  Having an opinion on something is one thing, understanding the thing you have an opinion on is something totally different.  The scope of MS Azure and Orleans is way above a lot of people witnin this thread but I do agree that the proof will be in the works we see within the coming years not something you will see day one.  Some of the advantages will be underthe hood where its not immediate like graphics.

I understand cloud and I understand its depth. I work in BI IT. We have been for the most part, MS's whole point of getting into Cloud if im not mistaken. MS has moved agressively over the past few years into enterprise solutions taking out all the other major players like IBM, Oracle etc. Thats why I was asking Disolitude to clear up the things he was saying which doesnt make sense when there are multiple implementations and offerings of cloud services.

When MS started moving all its services as SaaS solutions who do you think are the first people to try that out and understand the repurcussions of that technology?

My only issue with what MS was saying was that it will dynamically enhance the gameplay in realtime. Disolitude claims the same in some of hes posts which to me shows a complete lack of understanding on the subject. Using the cloud to generate a AI algorithm asycronously is a whole other thing. Dynamically adjusting the AI in realtime, adding more object onto the screen and crap like that has not been implemented ANYWHERE as of today. This is what MS was claiming. And i take major issue with that. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

HInt: I'm not



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Ssenkahdavic on 19 June 2013
disolitude said:

I've posted a few threads about the clouds in the last few days and in them there were many posts challenging the "cloud advantage".

Here is Respawn talking to Giantbomb about the cloud which I think sums up the cloud advantage Microsoft has quite nicely.

http://youtu.be/6F8kI_kWIMk

"Pretty amazing technology when you think about it...unlimited data use"

"Microsoft and Google are the only two ...that have "the cloud""

"They got data centers all over the world with tonnes of fast machines"

"You couldn't make this game without having that dedicated server support"

"We won't get all the niceties on the PC (version) as on the Xbox One"

MS is 3.

Google is 5.  (based on Business Insider)

Amazon should NEVER be forgotten on Cloud Computing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-most-important-in-cloud-computing-2013-4?op=1



 

  

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