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Forums - Microsoft - The best explanation (so far) of the "cloud" advantage for Xbox One

Ssenkahdavic said:
disolitude said:

I've posted a few threads about the clouds in the last few days and in them there were many posts challenging the "cloud advantage".

Here is Respawn talking to Giantbomb about the cloud which I think sums up the cloud advantage Microsoft has quite nicely.

http://youtu.be/6F8kI_kWIMk

"Pretty amazing technology when you think about it...unlimited data use"

"Microsoft and Google are the only two ...that have "the cloud""

"They got data centers all over the world with tonnes of fast machines"

"You couldn't make this game without having that dedicated server support"

"We won't get all the niceties on the PC (version) as on the Xbox One"

MS is 3.

Google is 5.  (based on Business Insider)

Amazon should NEVER be forgotten on Cloud Computing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-most-important-in-cloud-computing-2013-4?op=1


Don't remind me about Amazon please. I have like 5 outstanding tickets with their support. I unlock a piece of video content yet it remains geoblocked...what gives? :)



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disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Just a question before i get into this. Do you have any experience with cloud computing solutions? Actually using/developing on cloud services at enterprise level?
Edit: Also the reason why i asked about latency was because you added that in. Yet no1 was talking about latency not Ballmer and not the article. Perhaps you were just using the word incorrectly. And im pretty sure the reason why you added in that bit about latency was to make as if MS have some super low latency cloud solution that will allow for all the crap they were talking about using cloud to enhance games which is what this thread is about.

I use Amazon S3 on the daily basis at work. We use it for video hosting and streaming, website hosting, file uploads and transfers and good old user access policy control (DRM) :)

So why did you bring up latency? I'm still trying to figure this out.



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disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
disolitude said:

I've posted a few threads about the clouds in the last few days and in them there were many posts challenging the "cloud advantage".

Here is Respawn talking to Giantbomb about the cloud which I think sums up the cloud advantage Microsoft has quite nicely.

http://youtu.be/6F8kI_kWIMk

"Pretty amazing technology when you think about it...unlimited data use"

"Microsoft and Google are the only two ...that have "the cloud""

"They got data centers all over the world with tonnes of fast machines"

"You couldn't make this game without having that dedicated server support"

"We won't get all the niceties on the PC (version) as on the Xbox One"

MS is 3.

Google is 5.  (based on Business Insider)

Amazon should NEVER be forgotten on Cloud Computing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-most-important-in-cloud-computing-2013-4?op=1


Don't remind me about Amazon please. I have like 5 outstanding tickets with their support. I unlock a piece of video content yet it remains geoblocked...what gives? :)

Its because of the lack of Cloud Supremacy Love man!

All that Cloud Computing and they still wont let me watch HD video from my browser....Damn you Amazon!

Geoblocked?  Dont worry, they will eventually turn a 180 on DRM.



Shinobi-san said:
Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Well we don't have to argue about this anymore. It doesn't seem like "cloud" is going to be a buzzword MS will be using to sell the Xbone anymore.

And it just shows that this whole cloud talk was almost complete bullshit. ( i say almost because there are advantages, just not the way they were explaining it)

To be honest, you might just be in a discussion that is over your head.  Having an opinion on something is one thing, understanding the thing you have an opinion on is something totally different.  The scope of MS Azure and Orleans is way above a lot of people witnin this thread but I do agree that the proof will be in the works we see within the coming years not something you will see day one.  Some of the advantages will be underthe hood where its not immediate like graphics.

I understand cloud and I understand its depth. I work in BI IT. We have been for the most part, MS's whole point of getting into Cloud if im not mistaken. MS has moved agressively over the past few years into enterprise solutions taking out all the other major players like IBM, Oracle etc. Thats why I was asking Disolitude to clear up the things he was saying which doesnt make sense when there are multiple implementations and offerings of cloud services.

When MS started moving all its services as SaaS solutions who do you think are the first people to try that out and understand the repurcussions of that technology?

My only issue with what MS was saying was that it will dynamically enhance the gameplay in realtime. Disolitude claims the same in some of hes posts which to me shows a complete lack of understanding on the subject. Using the cloud to generate a AI algorithm asycronously is a whole other thing. Dynamically adjusting the AI in realtime, adding more object onto the screen and crap like that has not been implemented ANYWHERE as of today. This is what MS was claiming. And i take major issue with that. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

HInt: I'm not

Ok, I can agree 100% with what you said.  MS did do some hyperbole with what they can do today compared to what they may be able to do tomorrow.  Today, they need developers and creative people to find ways to take advantage of what Azure can do and their Orleans platform.  Engineers do not have the ability to see all of the advantages, instead they make stuff and hope the content creators can do things with it they have not thought about.

Personally, I have removed myself from MS promises to just concentrating on the actual technology.  I believe MS is making a serious bold move in giving developers Azure as a free resource and I am interested to see how it will be leveraged.



Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Just a question before i get into this. Do you have any experience with cloud computing solutions? Actually using/developing on cloud services at enterprise level?
Edit: Also the reason why i asked about latency was because you added that in. Yet no1 was talking about latency not Ballmer and not the article. Perhaps you were just using the word incorrectly. And im pretty sure the reason why you added in that bit about latency was to make as if MS have some super low latency cloud solution that will allow for all the crap they were talking about using cloud to enhance games which is what this thread is about.

I use Amazon S3 on the daily basis at work. We use it for video hosting and streaming, website hosting, file uploads and transfers and good old user access policy control (DRM) :)

So why did you bring up latency? I'm still trying to figure this out.

Because the article clearly talks about it....

"Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time"

Latency + Processing Time = Response Time

It should all come down to latency since I assume Amazon WS isn't using Pentim III's in their servers while Microsoft is using i7 3970K's :)



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Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Well we don't have to argue about this anymore. It doesn't seem like "cloud" is going to be a buzzword MS will be using to sell the Xbone anymore.

And it just shows that this whole cloud talk was almost complete bullshit. ( i say almost because there are advantages, just not the way they were explaining it)

To be honest, you might just be in a discussion that is over your head.  Having an opinion on something is one thing, understanding the thing you have an opinion on is something totally different.  The scope of MS Azure and Orleans is way above a lot of people witnin this thread but I do agree that the proof will be in the works we see within the coming years not something you will see day one.  Some of the advantages will be underthe hood where its not immediate like graphics.

I understand cloud and I understand its depth. I work in BI IT. We have been for the most part, MS's whole point of getting into Cloud if im not mistaken. MS has moved agressively over the past few years into enterprise solutions taking out all the other major players like IBM, Oracle etc. Thats why I was asking Disolitude to clear up the things he was saying which doesnt make sense when there are multiple implementations and offerings of cloud services.

When MS started moving all its services as SaaS solutions who do you think are the first people to try that out and understand the repurcussions of that technology?

My only issue with what MS was saying was that it will dynamically enhance the gameplay in realtime. Disolitude claims the same in some of hes posts which to me shows a complete lack of understanding on the subject. Using the cloud to generate a AI algorithm asycronously is a whole other thing. Dynamically adjusting the AI in realtime, adding more object onto the screen and crap like that has not been implemented ANYWHERE as of today. This is what MS was claiming. And i take major issue with that. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

HInt: I'm not

Ok, I can agree 100% with what you said.  MS did do some hyperbole with what they can do today compared to what they may be able to do tomorrow.  Today, they need developers and creative people to find ways to take advantage of what Azure can do and their Orleans platform.  Engineers do not have the ability to see all of the advantages, instead they make stuff and hope the content creators can do things with it they have not thought about.

Personally, I have removed myself from MS promises to just concentrating on the actual technology.  I believe MS is making a serious bold move in giving developers Azure as a free resource and I am interested to see how it will be leveraged.


I agree with you as well. But i feel like network latency will always be infinitely slower than moving data across a system locally. This is where the limitation hits. And this is why i think some of their claims were just for PR sake.



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disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Just a question before i get into this. Do you have any experience with cloud computing solutions? Actually using/developing on cloud services at enterprise level?
Edit: Also the reason why i asked about latency was because you added that in. Yet no1 was talking about latency not Ballmer and not the article. Perhaps you were just using the word incorrectly. And im pretty sure the reason why you added in that bit about latency was to make as if MS have some super low latency cloud solution that will allow for all the crap they were talking about using cloud to enhance games which is what this thread is about.

I use Amazon S3 on the daily basis at work. We use it for video hosting and streaming, website hosting, file uploads and transfers and good old user access policy control (DRM) :)

So why did you bring up latency? I'm still trying to figure this out.

Because the article clearly talks about it....

"Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time"

Latency + Processing Time = Response Time

It should all come down to latency since I assume Amazon WS isn't using Pentim III's in their servers while Microsoft is using i7 3970K's :)

Fastest response time won't necessarily mean lowe latency though...

Just saying :/



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

 

Because the article clearly talks about it....

"Azure's average response time was 25 percent faster than Amazon S3, which had the second fastest average time"

Latency + Processing Time = Response Time

It should all come down to latency since I assume Amazon WS isn't using Pentim III's in their servers while Microsoft is using i7 3970K's :)

Fastest response time won't necessarily mean lowe latency though...

Just saying :/

Not sure I follow...at the local level yeah...your latency may be through the roof, but thats not Microsofts fault. Server side though... if 2 servers are tested and performing an equal task with the same hardware and same connection and one has a better response time, latency is usually the differentiator.



disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Fastest response time won't necessarily mean lowe latency though...

Just saying :/

Not sure I follow...at the local level yeah...your latency may be through the roof, but thats not Microsofts fault. Server side though... if 2 servers are tested and performing an equal task with the same hardware and same connection and one has a better response time, latency is usually the differentiator.


Why didnt you just say response time in this place then maybe we wouldnt be having this discussion -_-

And again theres no way you can guarentee thats it's latency.



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Shinobi-san said:
disolitude said:
Shinobi-san said:

Fastest response time won't necessarily mean lowe latency though...

Just saying :/

Not sure I follow...at the local level yeah...your latency may be through the roof, but thats not Microsofts fault. Server side though... if 2 servers are tested and performing an equal task with the same hardware and same connection and one has a better response time, latency is usually the differentiator.


Why didnt you just say response time in this place then maybe we wouldnt be having this discussion -_-

And again theres no way you can guarentee thats it's latency.

It was a judgement call. I felt that people like the workd "latency" better :)