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Forums - Gaming - This Generation is all about Exclusivity vs. Ownership.

JinxRake said:
bugrimmar said:

First question: Why would DRM make publishers want to make their games exclusive to XboxOne? Here are two reasons:

1.) Steam has proven that if you have a platform that makes a game virtually immune to piracy, publishers will want to put stuff there. Take note at what Steam represents: it's a slightly less restrictive XboxOne on your PC. You MUST be online to activate and play your games, it says so in every box that you must have an active internet connection, but it does have an offline mode once you activate and you do not need to check in every 24 hours. Steam is very successful and many of the biggest games in the world are now exclusive to Steam. EA is following suit with Origin, and you can trust that many other publishers will want to hop on this train soon. Because the XboxOne is even more restrictive, said publishers may be attracted to the idea of:

Since when? PC piracy hasn't seen much of a hit because of Steam and it doesn't look that it will as long as the consumers remain uneducated.


I'm talking about Steam games alone. Those games are virtually immune to piracy. The PC gaming universe is far too large to contain piracy for Steam alone. I posted a list of games that run the Steam platform, and that only represents a fraction of the number of games on PC.  On PC, it's an open market. You can do anything basically. Steam is just one of those very few limiters. However, if XboxOne does it for consoles, and does it well enough to be like Steam, then there's only one other competitor. That's much easier than beating the PC market.



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Icy-Zone said:

2) The install base of said consoles to see if porting would be profitable.

Right now number 2 is not looking so hot for the X1, and number 1 is up to debate. MS has a weaker console with very limited memory. Since the PS4 has 7Gb of GDDR ram, devs might want to cut development costs and release games that require less optimization solely for the PS4.

I am sorry what?

Both consoles have 8GB or RAM, Microsoft's RAM is also GDDR, though slower than Sony's.  Devs might equally want to play solely with the Xbox ONEm which given the current lineups seems to be doing better gamewise.

And based on the current generation, Microsoft is as good or better than Sony at optomising its OS and making more RAM available to developers.  It also has Cloud available to developers day one, Sony is playing catchup in this regard.

Dont get me wrong, this still leaves it all very much up in the air, but to say either party has a development advantage at this point with any certainty is folly.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Icy-Zone said:
SvennoJ said:

Why would publishers fear second hand sales more then being able to play 2 instances of the same disc simultaneously, and in total 11 people (in different time zones) having access to those games, including DLC as well?

It's Ownership vs Digital license benefits.

Both sides will have exclusives but why would 3rd parties restrict themselves to one console, especially now the systems are so close in hardware setup? Most people don't own all consoles, by excluding one console you automatically lose far more sales.

Look at the PS2/Xbox/GC gen. PS2 received an abundance of third party exclusives despite the fact devs did not have to worry about trimming down the graphics for potential ports to other consoles, since the PS2 was the weakest of the three.

I'm assuming devs would look at 2 things when considering a port.

1) The ease of porting a game to a secondary/tertiary console(s). This doesn't only mean the game itself, but also the policies of the console manufacturer.

2) The install base of said consoles to see if porting would be profitable.

Right now number 2 is not looking so hot for the X1, and number 1 is up to debate. MS has a weaker console with very limited memory. Since the PS4 has 7Gb of GDDR ram, devs might want to cut development costs and release games that require less optimization solely for the PS4.

This is a very strange idea.

1. The PS2 received many third party exclusives by virtue of being the head of the market, hands down. However, the generation now isn't the same as the previous one. The 360 and the PS3 are virtually the same now in sales. Look at the multiplatform scene right now. Are there any real major third party exclusives that Sony has? None.

2. Hardware doesn't matter anymore. Just because one console is supposedly "weaker", it doesn't mean developers won't make it multiplatform. That's an insane idea. Actually, when you think about it, everything is a port from the PC. Anyone who thinks that the PS4 is light years ahead of the XboxOne isn't reading the specs right. And even if they're right, it still doesn't matter.

3. XboxOne has the potential to nab third party exclusives because of DRM. Think of EA, with their online pass program. That was a toe in the pool with regards to implementing DRM on consoles. Now, MS has given these publishers who want DRM a chance to openly exploit the restrictions in order to avoid used game sales and piracy.

Hardware and being the market leader are meaningless right now in terms of getting exclusives. It's all up to MS to fail or succeed. If they fail in the ways I mentioned, then yes, they will lose exclusives and even multiplats (like the Wii U). If they succeed in grabbing exclusivity contracts based on DRM, and if these exclusives are big enough, they will win.



starcraft said:
Icy-Zone said:

2) The install base of said consoles to see if porting would be profitable.

Right now number 2 is not looking so hot for the X1, and number 1 is up to debate. MS has a weaker console with very limited memory. Since the PS4 has 7Gb of GDDR ram, devs might want to cut development costs and release games that require less optimization solely for the PS4.

I am sorry what?

Both consoles have 8GB or RAM, Microsoft's RAM is also GDDR, though slower than Sony's.  Devs might equally want to play solely with the Xbox ONEm which given the current lineups seems to be doing better gamewise.

And based on the current generation, Microsoft is as good or better than Sony at optomising its OS and making more RAM available to developers.  It also has Cloud available to developers day one, Sony is playing catchup in this regard.

Dont get me wrong, this still leaves it all very much up in the air, but to say either party has a development advantage at this point with any certainty is folly.


http://www.gamechup.com/the-witness-5gb-xbox-one-ddr3-ram-cheap/

Read that ^.

Both consoles have 8gb ram, but the Ram the PS4 is substantially faster than the X1's. And about optimizing the OS, yes MS has done so, but so far only 5 gb is available out of the 8 gb while the PS4 has 7gb out of the 8 gb for the games. Again X1 has less ram avaible for games and the ram itself is of poorer quality than the PS4's.

In the article the dev says "more ram means developers spend less time in contortions to make the game run on the machine, more time making the actual game good."

Keep in mind this is an indie dev creating a pretty high quality title in a relatively short amount of time, simply because the available ram.



"Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire

Platinumed Destiny, Vanquish, Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus, Catherine, and Metal Gear Rising. Get on my level!!


Get your Portable ID!                                                                                     

Xbox One fans are being just as biased as PS4 fans are. Aside from Infamous Second Son, the exclusive games on both consoles are probably the worst of the games announced at E3. Whichever side of the fence you're on don't act like the exclusives are any good or that we're actually receiving some high quality games because we're not. These lackluster exclusives are being overrated because they're exclusives.

Let's also not forget that the exclusives on the PS4 are actually exclusive. Unlike Microsoft who did this before with the 360, Oblivion, Bioshock, Star Ocean, etc. Most of these exclusives will release first on Xbox One but if you're a PS4 fan you will get it in a year. Grey Shooter? I mean Titan Fall? We'll get that in a year, but until then PS4 fans can play generic shooter 1423. Killzone Shadow Falls. Infact, Killzone Shadow Falls atleast one ups most of these shooters because the game has vibrant colors rather than the browns and greys of 99% of last gen shooters. I thought Killer Instinct sounded like a good game until I found out that it was being developed by Double Helix games. Double Helix. That joke of a developer. The best game they created was Silent Hill Homecoming and even that was a poor game, the rest of the games are far worse.

Also. Just because Xbox One DRM restricts users doesn't mean it can't be pirated. As soon as the console is hacked, people are going to be able to pirate the games and only the honest people who purchase all their games are going to be affected by all the restrictions. Steam games can be pirated very easily without requiring Steam for use. If you think DRM protects from piracy, then you're wrong.

As for the Japanese not mattering? If the PS4 sells as good as thee Xbox One at the start of the generation, then Sony already has Japanese developers on lockdown. Remember Namco Bandai who was paid to make games by Microsoft. They found that they make more money releasing Japanese games on the PS3 and that games actually sold in the US. It only took them until the end of this gen to find that out. Will they develop exclusively for the Xbox One. Assuredly when Microsoft pays them millions to create a game that will inevitably come to the PS4. Gust, NIS, Compile Heart, etc, have always been more pro Sony than any other publisher, so I doubt they'd change. Those are developers that support the US, even if my opinion on them is that they suck. That's personal opinion though. So the Japanese will be supporting the PS4 and if you like Japanese games, guess what, there's more exclusives you'll probably be interested in.

But yeah. One more retail exclusive means the Xbox One is by far the superior system. Especially when one of those exclusives are timed. Instead of trying to fool yourself into think you're getting a better system. Just go ahead and buy it. Saying it's the better console won't get PS4 fans to change their mind, so you're only really posting to make you feel like you're making the right choice.



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My guess is that MS paid a shit ton to show off timed exclusives to mesmerize people into thinking it's a games console. But if that's what they wanted to establish, they would have released their console at launch to more than just a 21 country market.

The X1 is a gimmick used to get a foothold in the DVR business. You'll soon find that support for this console will dwindle down significantly, especially after the 2nd year.



"Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire

Platinumed Destiny, Vanquish, Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus, Catherine, and Metal Gear Rising. Get on my level!!


Get your Portable ID!                                                                                     

bugrimmar said:

This is a very strange idea.

1. The PS2 received many third party exclusives by virtue of being the head of the market, hands down. However, the generation now isn't the same as the previous one. The 360 and the PS3 are virtually the same now in sales. Look at the multiplatform scene right now. Are there any real major third party exclusives that Sony has? None.

Many many Japanese only exclusives.  Yakuza 5 being a major exclusive in that region I really want to be released over here. 

Here are some major Japanese exclusives that are being released in the US or have already been released in the US in just 2013.  Ni No Kuni, Tales of Xillia, Final Fantasy 14, Dragon's Crown, Final Fantasy 10/10-2 HD, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD, Tales of Symphonia Chronicles(2014,) and Disgaea D2.  There are others that I didn't list because of their developers, although they're very niche so doesn't matter.



So this is just another thread bashing or downplaying the Xbox One...Thanks guy.....



 



bugrimmar said:
SvennoJ said:

Why would publishers fear second hand sales more then being able to play 2 instances of the same disc simultaneously, and in total 11 people (in different time zones) having access to those games, including DLC as well?

It's Ownership vs Digital license benefits.

Both sides will have exclusives but why would 3rd parties restrict themselves to one console, especially now the systems are so close in hardware setup? Most people don't own all consoles, by excluding one console you automatically lose far more sales.


The same reason EA games don't have Steam authentication. Granted, Steam and Origin are free, while the XboxOne and PS4 aren't. That's why it's a toss-up. As I said, if MS is able to do its shit right, the third parties would be attracted enough to sign up. Digital License benefits is exactly what I'm talking about. Are those benefits enough for third parties to sign over exclusivity? What are those benefits anyway?

Just like what I said: 1. No piracy, and 2. No used games. If the publisher deems these things to be big enough, they will sign exclusivity. And if enough of them do it, MS wins. IF.

Origin is something completely different. It's running on the same system. EA is not going to be able to set up it's own shop on Xbox One to avoid paying royalties to MS to use their shop. PS3 was the safest system with no piracy until Jailbreak, while the 360 was already hacked. That didn't sway publishers towards the ps3.

It's simply a numbers game. Let's say the consoles are head to head again (doubt that will happen), MS would have to pay quite a big sum for a publisher to neglect all those potential ps4 sales. The costs for making a port will be far far less this gen. Plus ps4 is charging for online now too. Another reason gone for publishers to go with paid for MS servers and avoid ps3's bandwidth fees. That will be equal now too.

MS might be able to secure timed exclusivity again here and there, but so far the benefits to go exclusive simply aren't there.
- Xbox One only 21 countries at launch, vs worldwide reach.
- 2nd hand sales vs day 1 play on 2 consoles at the same time plus 10 share game + dlc without distance limits.

As with investing publishers will want to spread their risks. It would be stupid to sign exclusivity to one system. Now if one system runs away in sales like the ps2, maybe they won't bother with a port. However since ports are far easier this time, with cross platforms engines everywhere, it would still be dumb to ignore those extra sales.



Or you could pick up a Wii U, have the most exclusives, full ownership AND not have to pay for online multiplayer.