By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - How does the 3DS compare to the PSP, power wise?

hinch on 21 April 2013
Kaizar said:
VGKing said:
Kaizar said:
VGKing said:
Kaizar said:
Chark said:
VGKing said:
Chark said:

Not sure how accurate this is, but 3DS is stronger in a variety of ways even if it isn't pushing tech very far.

The PSP has 128 ppi and the 3DS has 237 ppi. As what seems to be Nintendo's calling card, releasing hardware at a marginal increase in performance as a means to provide lower cost of development, even though I'm not sure that always translates, but it atleast provides them with cheaper manufacturing costs to prevent the need to sell at a large loss....well typically.

Really? You added the top and bottom screens resolutions...

I didn't, and that's pretty shotty. those screens have different ppi too. the top screen higher than the Vita even, and at a smaller size. it is too bad the 3ds isnt more powerful.

Side note if people haven't realized, some of Kaizer's numbers and claims are exaggerated. Not all, but we've had debates and numbers flew wild. I think the site he frequents on 3DS is where he gets his ideas. With that said 3DS is better than some might think and easily beats psp.

You kept claiming the GPU (PICA200) was 200 MHz at the time. And I kept telling everyone that the GPU was 400 MHz, but no one believe me at the time, which was earlier this year (2013).

I said the 3DS has a 400 MHz GPU and that the PS vita has a 266 MHz GPU. That's what the whole debate on the other thread was about between you & me. It was all arguing about the 3DS 400 MHz GPU vs. the PS Vita 266 MHz GPU. I was just saying that it looks like it wins in GPU against the Vita.
ModelDateCoresDie Size (mm2)[1]Config core[3]Fillrate (@ 200 MHz)Bus width (bit)API (version)GFLOPS(@ 200 MHz,per core)
MTriangles/s[1]MPixel/s[1]DirectXOpenGLOpenCL
SGX543 Jan 2009 1-16 5.4@32 nm 4/2 35 1000 64 9.0 L3 2.1 1.1 7.2

This is the GPU inside the Vita. It's a quad core GPU so MHz doesn't really matter since it reasily overpowerd the one inside the 3DS. I heard even that developers can over/underclock the GPU as they see fit. You really need to learn about these things before putting out baseless claims. The GPU inside the 3DS is single core. The clock speed can be anywhere from 100MhZ to 400MhZ. We'll probably never know how its clocked.  The reason people say 3DS is no more powerful than a PSP is because that 3D effect really hurts the graphics. Now, I'll leave you with a graphics comparison between the 3DS and the Vita. Speculate on specs all you want but the games are what really show which is more powerful.

3DS Fifa 12 gameplay compared to Fifa 12 Vita Gameplay:

 

 


So the 3DS has 30.6 million triangles (polygons) & the PS Vita has 35 million triangles (polygons)

4.4 million polygons more in the PS Vita.

Well I know the 360 has a 1-core 500 MHz GPU & the PS3 has a 1-core 550 MHz GPU & the 3DS has a 1-core 400 MHz GPU.

So the PS Vita 4-core 266 MHz GPU makes it better then all of the other GPUs, including being better then the Wii Us 1-core 550 to 800 MHz GPU?

Better than the PS3 one? No. More modern? Yes. So Vita games can look closer to their PS3 counterparts.

You're focusing a little bit too much on the Mhz. There's a bunch of other factors that I can't even begin to fully undestand.


Thanks.

Well I know the 3DS uses a PICA200 (2010 model).

Theres also a 2008 model, and a 2006 model.

So their more modern.

I guessing the less then 40 million polygons per handheld is because of battery life, huh?

Where on earth are you getting the 40M polygons/sec figure from :s It's not going to be clocked at twice the frequency of the base clock. 400Mhz is the theoretical max. clock frequency. The PICA200 in the 3DS is not going to be clocked anywhere that high - especially in a handheld where power consumption is key.

Pic from the PICA200 presentation in 2010 (via gaf)

In comparison - The SGX543MP4 in the Vita

"At 200MHz core frequency an SGX543MP4 (four cores) will deliver 133 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 4Gpixels/sec**. Higher frequencies or a larger number of cores each deliver more performance. At 400MHz core frequency an SGX543MP8 (eight cores) will deliver 532 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 16Gpixels/sec.

POWERVR SGX543MP features:

  • maintains the highest performance per mW of any embedded graphics core, a key benefit of POWERVR SGX
  • highly linear scaling (over 95% efficiency) of performance in both geometry (vertex processing) and rasterisation (pixel/fragment processing)
  • dynamic load balancing and on-demand task allocation at the pipeline level
  • no fixed allocation of given pixels to specific cores, enabling maximum processing power to be allocated to the areas of highest on-screen action
  • scalable GP-GPU compute power, which can be fully utilised through all Khronos APIs including OpenGL ES 2.x, OpenVG™ 1.x and OpenCL™
  • use any number of cores from 2-16, even or odd
  • no additional work for software developers; using one driver stack for all SGX cores means applications see a common SGX architecture via the standard APIs regardless of number of cores used
  • no additional CPU load when using multiple cores or loss of performance"

http://www.imgtec.com/news/release/index.asp?newsid=449


So we're looking at 15.3M polygons/sec for the PICA 200 GPU (@200MHz) in the 3DS vs 133M polygons/sec of the SGX543MP4+ (@200MHz) in the Vita.

For the CPU side.. we're also looking at dual core ARM11 CPU (@266MHz) vs quad core Cortex A9 CPU (@800-1000Mhz). The Cortex A9 architecture is leaps and bounds ahead of the the ARM11 ones and theres 4 of them!

There's no discussion about power between those 2 handhelds. Its more powerful than PSP, sure.. but nowhere NEAR the PS Vita.



Around the Network
Kaizar on 21 April 2013
brendude13 said:
Kaizar said:
brendude13 said:
ethomaz said:
VGKing said:

3DS Fifa 12 gameplay compared to Fifa 12 Vita Gameplay:

Off-screen record for Vita even so the 3DS seens so ungly compared to Vita version.

I want to see some exclusives comparision too like Uncharted for Vita .

I'd say Revelations isn't that far off of Golden Abyss. Developers have really been underperforming on the Vita in my opinion, a lot of games aren't even maxing the resolution of the screen.

Fingers cross Killzone changes all of that though.


Actually Golden Abyss is a full develop 1st Party game, while revelations is a fully develop 3rd party game.

Plus it seems that the PS Vita 35 million triangles, while the 3DS has 30.6 million triangles.

So the difference between Uncharted: Golden Abyss & Resident Evil: Reveilations 3D shouldn't be surprising to only have that little difference that you describe.

I believe that's 35M polygons/s per core. Every other source says 133M polygons/s as a whole.

 

Series5XT (SGXMP)

  • PowerVR SGXMP variants available as single and multi-core IP 543XT, 544XT, and 554XT series
    • Performance scales 95% linearly with number of cores and clock speed
  • Available in single to 16 core variants
    • SGX543
      • (single core) 35M polygon/s @200 MHz
      • (two cores) 68M polygon/s @200 MHz
      • (four cores) 133M polygon/s @200 MHz
      • (eight cores) 266M polygon/s @200 MHz
      • (sixteen cores) 532M polygon/s @200 MHz

        *cut*

        PlayStation Vita

        • SGX543MP4+ (four cores) @200 MHz
Struggling to find accurate numbers for the 3DS, 15.3M polygons/s and 40M polygons/s have been thrown around though.
EDIT: Many sources say the PICA200 produces 15.3M polygons/s @200mhz. If the 3DS's GPU has been overclocked to 400mhz then 30.6M polygons/s is spot on. Quite surprising really that the PSP could do 33M polygons/s, although the pixel fill rate is a lot lower than the 3DS's.

 


Well, there's a 2006 model and a 2008 model and the 3DS has a 2010 model of the PICA200, so it's NOT overclocked, it's underclock.



Kaizar on 21 April 2013
hinch said:
Kaizar said:
VGKing said:
Kaizar said:
VGKing said:
Kaizar said:
Chark said:
VGKing said:
Chark said:

Not sure how accurate this is, but 3DS is stronger in a variety of ways even if it isn't pushing tech very far.

The PSP has 128 ppi and the 3DS has 237 ppi. As what seems to be Nintendo's calling card, releasing hardware at a marginal increase in performance as a means to provide lower cost of development, even though I'm not sure that always translates, but it atleast provides them with cheaper manufacturing costs to prevent the need to sell at a large loss....well typically.

Really? You added the top and bottom screens resolutions...

I didn't, and that's pretty shotty. those screens have different ppi too. the top screen higher than the Vita even, and at a smaller size. it is too bad the 3ds isnt more powerful.

Side note if people haven't realized, some of Kaizer's numbers and claims are exaggerated. Not all, but we've had debates and numbers flew wild. I think the site he frequents on 3DS is where he gets his ideas. With that said 3DS is better than some might think and easily beats psp.

You kept claiming the GPU (PICA200) was 200 MHz at the time. And I kept telling everyone that the GPU was 400 MHz, but no one believe me at the time, which was earlier this year (2013).

I said the 3DS has a 400 MHz GPU and that the PS vita has a 266 MHz GPU. That's what the whole debate on the other thread was about between you & me. It was all arguing about the 3DS 400 MHz GPU vs. the PS Vita 266 MHz GPU. I was just saying that it looks like it wins in GPU against the Vita.
ModelDateCoresDie Size (mm2)[1]Config core[3]Fillrate (@ 200 MHz)Bus width (bit)API (version)GFLOPS(@ 200 MHz,per core)
MTriangles/s[1]MPixel/s[1]DirectXOpenGLOpenCL
SGX543 Jan 2009 1-16 5.4@32 nm 4/2 35 1000 64 9.0 L3 2.1 1.1 7.2

This is the GPU inside the Vita. It's a quad core GPU so MHz doesn't really matter since it reasily overpowerd the one inside the 3DS. I heard even that developers can over/underclock the GPU as they see fit. You really need to learn about these things before putting out baseless claims. The GPU inside the 3DS is single core. The clock speed can be anywhere from 100MhZ to 400MhZ. We'll probably never know how its clocked.  The reason people say 3DS is no more powerful than a PSP is because that 3D effect really hurts the graphics. Now, I'll leave you with a graphics comparison between the 3DS and the Vita. Speculate on specs all you want but the games are what really show which is more powerful.

3DS Fifa 12 gameplay compared to Fifa 12 Vita Gameplay:

 

 


So the 3DS has 30.6 million triangles (polygons) & the PS Vita has 35 million triangles (polygons)

4.4 million polygons more in the PS Vita.

Well I know the 360 has a 1-core 500 MHz GPU & the PS3 has a 1-core 550 MHz GPU & the 3DS has a 1-core 400 MHz GPU.

So the PS Vita 4-core 266 MHz GPU makes it better then all of the other GPUs, including being better then the Wii Us 1-core 550 to 800 MHz GPU?

Better than the PS3 one? No. More modern? Yes. So Vita games can look closer to their PS3 counterparts.

You're focusing a little bit too much on the Mhz. There's a bunch of other factors that I can't even begin to fully undestand.


Thanks.

Well I know the 3DS uses a PICA200 (2010 model).

Theres also a 2008 model, and a 2006 model.

So their more modern.

I guessing the less then 40 million polygons per handheld is because of battery life, huh?

Where on earth are you getting the 40M polygons/sec figure from :s It's not going to be clocked at twice the frequency of the base clock. 400Mhz is the theoretical max. clock frequency. The PICA200 in the 3DS is not going to be clocked anywhere that high - especially in a handheld where power comsumption is key.

Pic from the PICA200 presentation in 2010 (via gaf)

In comparison - The SGX543MP4 in the Vita

"At 200MHz core frequency an SGX543MP4 (four cores) will deliver 133 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 4Gpixels/sec**. Higher frequencies or a larger number of cores each deliver more performance. At 400MHz core frequency an SGX543MP8 (eight cores) will deliver 532 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 16Gpixels/sec.

POWERVR SGX543MP features:

  • maintains the highest performance per mW of any embedded graphics core, a key benefit of POWERVR SGX
  • highly linear scaling (over 95% efficiency) of performance in both geometry (vertex processing) and rasterisation (pixel/fragment processing)
  • dynamic load balancing and on-demand task allocation at the pipeline level
  • no fixed allocation of given pixels to specific cores, enabling maximum processing power to be allocated to the areas of highest on-screen action
  • scalable GP-GPU compute power, which can be fully utilised through all Khronos APIs including OpenGL ES 2.x, OpenVG™ 1.x and OpenCL™
  • use any number of cores from 2-16, even or odd
  • no additional work for software developers; using one driver stack for all SGX cores means applications see a common SGX architecture via the standard APIs regardless of number of cores used
  • no additional CPU load when using multiple cores or loss of performance"

http://www.imgtec.com/news/release/index.asp?newsid=449


So we're looking at 15.3M polygons/sec for the PICA 200 GPU (@200MHz) in the 3DS vs 133M polygons/sec of the SGX543MP4+ (@200MHz) in the Vita.

For the CPU side.. we're also looking at dual core ARM11 CPU (@266MHz) vs quad core Cortex A9 CPU (@800-1000Mhz). The Cortex A9 architecture is leaps and bounds ahead of the the ARM11 ones and theres 4 of them!

There's no discussion about power between those 2 handhelds. Its more powerful than PSP, sure.. but nowhere NEAR the PS Vita.

I said LESS THEN 40 million polygons (per core)



hinch on 21 April 2013
Kaizar said:


Well, there's a 2006 model and a 2008 model and the 3DS has a 2010 model of the PICA200, so it's NOT overclocked, it's underclock.

Read the GAF thread. They were talking about the new model.



Kaizar on 21 April 2013

Is it just me or is there more info on the AMD whatever Series 5XT GPU then the PICA200.

We don't even know the GFLOPs of the PICA200.



Around the Network
Kaizar on 21 April 2013
hinch said:
Kaizar said:


Well, there's a 2006 model and a 2008 model and the 3DS has a 2010 model of the PICA200, so it's NOT overclocked, it's underclock.

Read the GAF thread. They were talking about the new model.


Doesn't the 2008 model produce 40.7 million polygons at 400 MHz?

I know the 2006 model does 15.3 million polygons at 100 or 200 MHz.



hinch on 21 April 2013
Kaizar said:
hinch said:
Kaizar said:


Well, there's a 2006 model and a 2008 model and the 3DS has a 2010 model of the PICA200, so it's NOT overclocked, it's underclock.

Read the GAF thread. They were talking about the new model.


Doesn't the 2008 model produce 40.7 million polygons at 400 MHz?

I know the 2006 model does 15.3 million polygons at 100 or 200 MHz.

From DMP (PICA200) -

Main features / Specifications

  • Frame buffer: Maximum 4095×4095 pixels
  • Pixel format: RGBA4444, RGB565, RGBA5551, RGBA8888
  • Vertex program (ARB_vertex_program)
  • Render to texture
  • mipmap
  • Bilinear texture filtering
  • Alpha blending
  • Full-scene antialiasing (2×2)
  • Polygon offset
  • 8-bit stencil buffer
  • 24-bit depth buffer
  • Single/Double/Triple buffer
  • Vertex performance: Maximum 15.3M polygons/sec (at 200MHz)
  • Pixel performance: Maximum 800M pixels/sec (at 200MHz)

http://www.dmprof.com/english/e_products/e_pica_200/



DieAppleDie on 21 April 2013

the DBZ comparison (Cell saga )
DS Piccolo fused with Nail only
PSP Android 17
3DS Android 16
PSVita Cell 2nd form



Kaizar on 21 April 2013
hinch said:
Kaizar said:
hinch said:
Kaizar said:


Well, there's a 2006 model and a 2008 model and the 3DS has a 2010 model of the PICA200, so it's NOT overclocked, it's underclock.

Read the GAF thread. They were talking about the new model.


Doesn't the 2008 model produce 40.7 million polygons at 400 MHz?

I know the 2006 model does 15.3 million polygons at 100 or 200 MHz.

From DMP (PICA200) -

Main features / Specifications

  • Frame buffer: Maximum 4095×4095 pixels
  • Pixel format: RGBA4444, RGB565, RGBA5551, RGBA8888
  • Vertex program (ARB_vertex_program)
  • Render to texture
  • mipmap
  • Bilinear texture filtering
  • Alpha blending
  • Full-scene antialiasing (2×2)
  • Polygon offset
  • 8-bit stencil buffer
  • 24-bit depth buffer
  • Single/Double/Triple buffer
  • Vertex performance: Maximum 15.3M polygons/sec (at 200MHz)
  • Pixel performance: Maximum 800M pixels/sec (at 200MHz)

http://www.dmprof.com/english/e_products/e_pica_200/


Yeah, that's the 2006 model specs. Thanks anyways.

This must be the most secret GPU LOL, I mean no one knows the exact GFLOPs nor exact shader cores.



hinch on 21 April 2013
Kaizar said:
hinch said:
Kaizar said:
hinch said:
Kaizar said:


Well, there's a 2006 model and a 2008 model and the 3DS has a 2010 model of the PICA200, so it's NOT overclocked, it's underclock.

Read the GAF thread. They were talking about the new model.


Doesn't the 2008 model produce 40.7 million polygons at 400 MHz?

I know the 2006 model does 15.3 million polygons at 100 or 200 MHz.

From DMP (PICA200) -

Main features / Specifications

  • Frame buffer: Maximum 4095×4095 pixels
  • Pixel format: RGBA4444, RGB565, RGBA5551, RGBA8888
  • Vertex program (ARB_vertex_program)
  • Render to texture
  • mipmap
  • Bilinear texture filtering
  • Alpha blending
  • Full-scene antialiasing (2×2)
  • Polygon offset
  • 8-bit stencil buffer
  • 24-bit depth buffer
  • Single/Double/Triple buffer
  • Vertex performance: Maximum 15.3M polygons/sec (at 200MHz)
  • Pixel performance: Maximum 800M pixels/sec (at 200MHz)

http://www.dmprof.com/english/e_products/e_pica_200/


Yeah, that's the 2006 model specs. Thanks anyways.

This must be the most secret GPU LOL, I mean no one knows the exact GFLOPs nor exact shader cores.

No, it's not. -_-

Those are the PICA200 (2010) specs.